So miss understood

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Feather

So, let me see if I understand this. I have real rocks, dirt, hills, flowing water, trees, grass, all outside. I have a modest operating system to be sure, but I operate whenever I can.

And somehow, a dried weed that has colored ground foam glued on is more "realistic?"

I missed something, I think.

I attended an operating session of a local HO club, intending to join. Why not? It would be fun, and I would probably learn something. Everyone was very welcoming, until they learned that my layout was out in the garden. After that, the friendly welcome seemed to have disappeared.

Sad.

SteveF

Gee Steve, [;)][:)]

You must have shocked those poor HO guys. [:p][:)][:)]

Seriously, it doesn't matter if you start at the top of the scale ladder (Large Scale) or at the bottom (Z Scale), the "other guys" will always be slightly suspect.
One could compile a stereotypical perception table, showing what each scale group thinks of the other scale groups. With suitable subcategories for such things as traction, narrow gauge etc. etc. [;)][:o)][:)]

My suggestion to fix your problem: invite them over for an operating session on your layout and see what happens.

I used to get a lot of ribbing since I model Swiss proto, but one or two operating sessions fixed that problem; they were too busy running the railroad to be making "cute remarks".
The "man, are these cars tiny" stopped when they were concentrating to find the car numbers in order to switch the proper cars - yep the numbers are just as tiny and properly weathered cars don't improve things. OTOH the guys would get a magnifying glass to aid their vision. [;)][:p][;)]

[Feather]

So, let me see if I understand this. I have real rocks, dirt, hills, flowing water, trees, grass, all outside. I have a modest operating system to be sure, but I operate whenever I can.

And somehow, a dried weed that has colored ground foam glued on is more "realistic?"

I missed something, I think.

I attended an operating session of a local HO club, intending to join. Why not? It would be fun, and I would probably learn something. Everyone was very welcoming, until they learned that my layout was out in the garden. After that, the friendly welcome seemed to have disappeared.

Sad.

SteveF

[tmcc man]

Hey Marty,
just wondering if you remember meeting two guys named Tom Weaver, and Pete Eggink. Pete came and ran his RDC at your house. The both belong to my garden railroad club, and i am good friends with them

[wchasr]

Ok since I almost never come over here (too many forums so little time online) I'm just cathcing up on this topic. I would agree that at times the smaller scale guys seem to tune us right out. Sometimes for very good reasons & sometimes totally not so good reasons. Sometimes it is simply a mater of I am interested BUT I've got all my brain power, heart adn soul tied inot this HO scale layout and now you show me this wonderful stuff. It's a migraine waiting to happen I tell you! So these guys are just protecting their own sanity. Really!

Now me I grew up never being satisfied with the HO stuff my dad would let me play with and then got inot RC cars becuase model cars just sat and collected dust on the shelf. Started to work at a hobby shop as a young adult and found out about Large scale trains what an eye opener! I originally justifed my first LGB set as "the train around the tree". It was only ever around one tree I believe? LOL! Many others have been though! Those that want to will be impressed the rest will enver get the family that is Large scale garden trains!

[RhB_HJ]

Well Gang,

When I was 6 (1951) our neighbour had an old Egger Bahn (??) set with - if I remember correctly - at least two engines, a bunch of side dump cars, track, a few switches and miscellaneous other items.
Now, this was larger than the Egger Bahn that is electric and runs on 9mm gauge. This was wind-up!

Well since our house had a much larger sand box and numerous Dinky cars of the right scale, the action happened in our garden. Modeled after the quarry line that ran about 300m from our house and was hauling clay to a brick and tile plant.
Too bad my dad wouldn't let me have the camera back then - usually when we headed for the quarry we'd get home dirty enough to be hosed down [;)][:D][:D] - it would have made for some good pictures. Neat little FRR engines and plenty of side dump cars with link and pin couplers.

[Tom The Brat]

At age 12, I was getting a little tired of N gauge indoors. Spent lots of time drawing and thinking about how to make track and a train for outside about so big. Even found a cool book, "Build Your Own Model Railroad" where he used copper bars for rails and set them into notches in the ties. Never came up with a plan for making track that Dad thought was doable. He was a pretty inventive guy.

G is about the size I had in mind, though I'm still not outside.

Marty! That's a well deserved 1st! The greenish light behind the smoke really makes the photo.

[bman36]

Hey guys,
Now this is quite the thread. Been busy here the past few days. My pet peeve as a kid was when my parents would not let me take my HO stuff outside. I insisted it it needed to be in REAL scenery. Kinda' funny to look back and realize that at age nine indoor model RRing was not fulfilling for me. Ever since I discovered this big stuff a few years back , model RR'ing has very much come alive for me. Finally I get to play in the dirt again. Never have I ever found so much enjoyment from my trains. For me this is what it is all about. Any time we have friends over they all seem to look in amazement at my little layout....."Outdoors?!....cool!" Many have stories of layouts from their earlier years and comment on how going outdoors just looks way better. I could'nt agree more. Thanks for the photos Marty. Very encouraging to see. Later eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

frist i would like to thank marty for the pic's he posted on the model railroad foram ( that bridge is amazing). i am in HO now but some day i am going to do a G scale railroad. i have put some thought into the track plan and i want a bridge to span a creek in my back yard . i didn't think it was posabul till i saw your pic's . so i just wanted to give you a little thanks for your time in posting the pic's [:D]

[Marty Cozad]

WOOW
I thought I'd share this here beings I have a thread running.
Few weeks ago i was roofing a ladies house who works with the city wide photo contest. Shes in some photo clubs , etc
she told me I should try and enter .
I have never done anything other than train type contest.
i figured what the hay? I can share the hobby and maybe get a ribbon.
I guess everyone gets a ribbon for entering.
Cost me about $60 to print and mate the photos.
I made sure that the name tag had
Garden model trains
So folks know that this is more than just a railfan shot.
So today I finally had time to go to the library, of which I have not been for years.
And

My Aristo Steam shot came in 1st in its catogary


The busting snow one that was on MLS calendar got 2nd
and the water fall at Hensons got 3rd.
over 300 photos and it took awhile to find mine.
Maybe some one will call and want to get into the hobby or visit.

[Tom The Brat]

hehe I've done that. Come back from seeing some really cool layouts with some nice features, and not one photo showing any of the features[D)]

[Marty Cozad]

As John said
"I am at a point now where both worlds are coexisting very nicely."
I to talk alot about modeling and detail and the 20 ft rule.
My point is openness by others.
I was watching a cool N scale layout the other week and the trains and layout design was great.
Matter-of-fact I had copied measurements off of some of his buildings once to build mine.
I have photos of one small HO layout that was at the last GATS show that gave me so many ideas I just stood there and stared.
No where are those photos????

[Tom The Brat]

hehe I like that. "Scale is overrated."

[GP-9_Man11786]

Being into G Scale and 3-Rail O Gauge, I have often been accused of not caring about scale. My response is to turn around and tell them that scale is over-rated. This will just about send the small scale guys into convulsions. For me, it stops being fun when we start obsessing. I say if it looks good, run it!

[John Busby]

Hi Tangerine Jack
Realism it rains you get wet its hot you reach for a refreshment you need a shovel to build a railway.
how much more real do you want[:D]
Seriously realism can be an interesting descusion in its self it don't just rely on that car being 22' long and 9' wide just like the real one and detailed to the enth degree.
regards John Busby West Australia

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Don't know as I could add anything that hasn't already been so properly stated; so I'll just "Ditto".

[tangerine-jack]

John, I think a "tram" is a big bus that runs on rails...[(-D]

In all honesty, I have a small (2x8) HO RR inside, mostly for the inclement weather days and also so as not to waste all that money I spent on the HO stuff. I've been in the garden about 4 years now, and there is no going back! I'm starting to look at it more like Marty, with quality now becoming important to me now that I have the basic RR established. My move to wireless has greatly improved my operations, I now have a timetable and 5 different routes supporting two trains. My scenery is constantly changing, and yes, the pine needles, slugs, ants, leaves, rain, heat, cold, snow, and other unexpected natural occurances can be irritating, but isn't that what the real RR's had to put up with to get the trains through?

TOC is dead on with his views, but we each have our own likes and dislikes to throw in the mix. I also don't see any purpose for detailed undersides, and I know the value of good trackage and wiring. I am moving towards more realism, but I will never abandon my "looks r-e-a-l nice" trains. I originaly moved outdoors to escape all the superdetailing-prototype-or-die headaches. I am at a point now where both worlds are coexisting very nicely. I expect that come spring, my rolling stock will be much improved in looks and performance after winter upgrades.

In other words, I'M HAVING BUCKETS OF FUN AND I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY THINKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![(-D][:-,][:D][:D]



[oX)]

[smcgill]

No coal! [:(] That would be cool!!
I do have a MTH 3rd rail and I could only run it (smoke ) for 5 min. before the smoke alarm went off!!
I Run my shay all day with the smoke and do not even think of the smoke alarm!!
Some thing a boute cool weather and smoke!!

[John Busby]

Hi troy
Whats a tram[swg]
Did you get those pictures of the Kalgoorlie tram and trailer??
regards John

[John Busby]

Hi smcgill
When did you get a coal fired loco for the garden[:D]
Thats something else we can have if the buget will cope with it.
Thanks for reminding me of what I cannot afford but hey its nice to dream[^]
regards John

[ttrigg]

Marty;

Saw the "snow" post, almost LMAO.

I'll admit, I got a little "fiesty" myself. Someone over there was threatening to go to HO (oviously meaning he was leaving N) looking for something that made smoke. I chimed in about taking it outside to the garden. Even went so far as to make a comment about leaving the transformers behind and running on live steam with real smoke. (OK I appoligise to all the Live Steamers here and anywhere, as I probably let my alligator mouth overload my humming bird a[censored], especially since I've only just begun in the GRR (almost totally LGB).

Sorry, just could not help myself.

[Tom The Brat]

hehe A small scale friend used to criticize, "G is for people who don't care anything about scale." Now he realizes that in G I'm very aware of scale and he has always just assumed it. Now he has a caliper and is discovering that most of his rolling stock is short and the track is wide...

[Marty Cozad]

Charles
I need to question my motives here.
Rene will be hearing about it if i am not careful.
One of her forum guys have ,,,"derailed"
Back to TOC's 3 rail stuff. man it ran, it runs . I had A.F. for years and neverbroke down.

Charles, maybe some day we need to try to get a "outdoor model railroad " in . M R .
Rene was kind enough to help me a little her because I told her that I don't think most of them in that office understands that we love to model to. In different ways.

I have been in the train hobby from age 8. my first Marx's set was 2 yrs old.
14 yrs in G and i feel I still have so much to learn.
My personal (sometimes) problem is folks look at how large something is, and not at the quality of the different pieces that make it up.
I rather show folks the few scratch built cars that I have done or the weathered ones.
The RR is just a batch of bushes, grass and dirt with track running through it. Now the bridges I'm proud of, tried to research and find photos that look believeable.
When our steam up starts this 24th I'm going to really try and take good shots of all the great models that show up and post some of them.
I get running around so much I usually forget.

BTY
On MR you'll have to follow the "How do you make snow ?" thread.
That will be fun.[:p]

[cacole]

Well, Marty, you've really stirred up a lot of interest over on the Model Railroader forum with your photos. Keep it up -- I think you've got a couple of hot prospects for converting to G-scale over there.

[Curmudgeon]

I've got stuff in "0" 2-rail that is from before WWII that looks just fine...in fact, the sand-cast aluminum hoppers, when done right, are mistaken for $275 imported units!
What IRKS me to the point of URPING is the underbody detail on "0" stuff these guys have to pick up, flip over and show you.
So What? I ask them.
Look of uncomprehension.....
"The ONLY time you're ever gonna see that is if you do something wrong!"
Like what?
"Derailment, crash, or...pick it up and flip it over...."

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I grew up with 726's, 225E's, 675's.....
The Delta trailing trucks, metal siderods and all that valve gear........eyeball height, knuckle couplers, but we re-painted with Floquil (or whatever flat was available), and re-lettered to something other than "Lionel Lines"....
Called us "Hi-Railers" back then.
GarGraves phantom rail, wood ties, #6 switches....
None of this shiny crap at Warp Factor 6.

My buddy and I both model Northern Pacific in 3-rail.
I also do in 2-rail.
We were part of the LOTS group for several years, built modules and went to shows...signed up to run together, just us, brought down all NP stuff....
60 car freights, double-headed (we had operating couplers on the nose of all our steamers), with a third unit 2/3 of the way back, running two mains at prototypical speed.
Kids actually preferred it, and it drew adults like bees to honey.

Last layout I built indoors was his, I think.
15 years ago.
Wired it up state-of-the-art 1940's.
One switch macine has failed and one solder joint to the black center rail in 15 years.
I was over there a month or so ago wiring in his turntable and roundhouse for a Classic Toy Trains cover shoot and story ( a ways out on publication), and the guys from CTT were amazed at the prototypical speeds and consists.
Upper level sitting on a barstool is eyeball height........

[Marty Cozad]

HJ
As I was sitting waiting for my youngest to get off the computer so i can have a turn. I was telling him I need a new photo album as you said. Now I read this. Great minds think alike.
We have many challenges, just getting kids to think about trains is hard enough.
Let alone afford them.
I was watching the last part of some show which was about Lionel modern trains and how realistic they are with sound , lights,, action. Trains at high speed racing , shiny,,,, I just laughted as the guy talked about how realistic his "toy" train layout was.

Don't get me wrong, I have lots of friends who are collectors and realistic back in the 50's but now???????
You got to be kidding ME!!!!!
Yes he had more money in his trains than I will ever have but to use the work realistic.

Of course I'd love to see any railroader, toy or other wise move to town just to have some one close to play trains with.
Well back to book work, freedom of self-employment.heheheh

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Curmudgeon

.....................................................

I usually have a pocket full of photos when the folks I talk to get glassy-eyed and want to go talk to someone else.
I suppose over 50 years in model railroading might just give me some credibility, but my pure orneryness makes them sit still.

............................................

Hi Dave,

Russ calling you "young Dave" must have been good!

For the rest and the above: EXACTLY!! [#ditto][#ditto]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Marty Cozad

This has been one of those ,"can't get my butt in gear" weekends. So I spent way to much time on the computer.
I finally posted some photos and shared some thoughts on MRs forum and I think alot of folks have no idea what out door model railroading can be.
The term Garden railroading is so vast and covers so many topics that the gerneral hobbiest has no idea.
I had no clue way back but thats before all these GREAT models hit the shelf.

Plus at NMRA meets or Gats shows and other places that I go , you tell them your a GRRer and its OH,,,I see. then they go talk to someone else in their club.
HEY we are modelers to.
We just have to use different materials and deal with different conditions than they do.
I was thinking that I use many methods that HO folks used.
around the wall layout, we use a fence, dividing a layout in half, we use hills or bushes to give distance.
And yes ,,some of us run year round if we can. We plan and build year round.
I wonder how many HO folks looked at GRYs mag at the hobby store and read Eric's artical. That was as good as any HO bash.
And the box car two part artical would easily fit into MRs mag.
Oh well, I'm just venting.

My wife tells me that i live in my own little world, I remind her, she lives with me in it also.[;)]

Marty, [;)][}:)][;)]

So misunderstood!?!

I've dabbled in a few scales - remember I wrote scales not toys - and when I decided to go to IIm one of my friends (a 100% proto modeler) asked me why I would want to start playing with toys at my age, after all I was a proto modeler in HOm.

Soooooo, the funny looks and snickers will continue just as long as we have that "scale/gauge" discussion on a regular basis. That along with the "but it's r-e-a-l pretty!" (Not my grammar!) will make sure of that.

Having a conversation with a young model railroader will wise up many an old-timer. The kids - if they're interested in railroading - know the stuff inside and out; most of them have little interest in what they and I term "toys".

Of course there are plenty of Large Scale modelers and my money is on them being mostly stepping up from the smaller scales and not wishing to "compromise" on the scale bit. And why should they?

Marty what you need to do is have a picture album in your pocket with shots from your layout! That will convince people that there's more to garden railroading than tulips, petunias and "r-e-a-l pretty and cute trains from fantasy land".

So if garden rairoading is misunderstood, it's not the scale modelers fault. They judge by what they get to see in the media and on layout tours.

[Tom The Brat]

hehe I just told an HO model railroader that he needed to get out into the garden. His wife and grandson agreed[:D]

[tangerine-jack]

I hereby issue a blanket apology to Vic- you do have an outdoors, it counts as a garden and meets the requirements of LS Garden RRing. I will now fall upon my sword, ...er..... um.... my keyboard. [:I]

smcgill- don't forget the sparklers and other fireworks! HA! Try THAT one inside!!!
[oX)]