So miss understood

[Marty Cozad]

This has been one of those ,"can't get my butt in gear" weekends. So I spent way to much time on the computer.
I finally posted some photos and shared some thoughts on MRs forum and I think alot of folks have no idea what out door model railroading can be.
The term Garden railroading is so vast and covers so many topics that the gerneral hobbiest has no idea.
I had no clue way back but thats before all these GREAT models hit the shelf.

Plus at NMRA meets or Gats shows and other places that I go , you tell them your a GRRer and its OH,,,I see. then they go talk to someone else in their club.
HEY we are modelers to.
We just have to use different materials and deal with different conditions than they do.
I was thinking that I use many methods that HO folks used.
around the wall layout, we use a fence, dividing a layout in half, we use hills or bushes to give distance.
And yes ,,some of us run year round if we can. We plan and build year round.
I wonder how many HO folks looked at GRYs mag at the hobby store and read Eric's artical. That was as good as any HO bash.
And the box car two part artical would easily fit into MRs mag.
Oh well, I'm just venting.

My wife tells me that i live in my own little world, I remind her, she lives with me in it also.[;)]

[GP-9_Man11786]

I know that feeling. Most people don't take us 3-railers seriously either.

[tangerine-jack]

I don't want to be taken seriously, that way "they" can all go and [censored] off and leave me alone in my garden. For the "them" that understand, I have a hot BBQ and some steaks, with a pleasant evening of train running and bull shooting.

Vent Marty, it's cool, but when your done, we of the outdoor kindred need more of your inspiring photos[bow]


[oX)]

[Tom The Brat]

Story of my life! I fit right in with garden railroaders[:D]

[Curmudgeon]

Decades, Marty, decades.
Many of us have been preaching the range, from "Garden Railroader" or a loop around the petunias to "Outdoor Railroader", of which a few of us fall into.
The gamut is full.
Everywhere in between.
I, for instance, secure my track and let the rail expand in the joiners.
Folks who "float" their track have generally lost the battle, as expansion and contraction saw the ties into whatever they are floating in, and it will not stay level or cross-levelled.
We had a local who had the "Great never get around once railroad", as the track would work in and over your engine would go.
We all quit going.
Russ Reinberg came up once with his significant other, for a Photo Shoot, and called so we could go out to eat.
I told him he had to see the CCRy.
He moaned and complained, refused.
So, I said okay, we'll go eat.
Shgow up here at 5 pm and we'll go in my car.
He gets here, gets out of the car, realizes he has to actually see the RR, gets this hang-dog lok and shuffles into the back yard.
Finally lifts his eyes from his toes and his jaw dropped.
He spend 15-20 minutes just walking around, totally silent.
Then he said, "Well, Young Dave, I have seen thousands of railroads.
I have seen hundreds folks promised me were "operating" railroads. None were ever close.
This one is it.
It's like you took a fully functional H0 railroad from a basement, blew it up to #1 gauge and stuck it outdoors"

I usually have a pocket full of photos when the folks I talk to get glassy-eyed and want to go talk to someone else.
I suppose over 50 years in model railroading might just give me some credibility, but my pure orneryness makes them sit still.

There is absolutely no way I could hang track on the edge of a 4 foot cliff without attaching track to something solid.
And, I'd never put it on the ground. As these young bucks get older, they'll find out just how hard maintenance AND operations can be on the ground.

MUCH better up where you can see it.

TOC

[Marty Cozad]

TOC, I'm slowly changing. I love running with others .
But my 3 or 4 buds are to far away. I'm really thinking of having a "run" night once a month no matter who can come next summer.

I already have changes planned, but the reality of just me here running and working as much as I do I just let them go round and round.
any way life goes on and thank God for these forums.

[cacole]

As an HO scaler from way back when everyone else my age was playing with Lionel O scale, I used to think all G-scale looked like LGB's models of "toy" trains that were nowhere near realistic looking.

It wasn't until Bachmann came along with their 1:20.3 Consolidation, Mogul, Shay, and other steam engines that I even considered dabbling in G. Now, in addition to the Bachmann engines, I even have an AccuCraft Mimi live steamer.

Fortunately, I run all of my Bachmann models from battery power and AirWire900 Wireless DCC, so when the Mimi goes around spewing oil all over the track I don't have to give it even a second thought on the need for cleaning it off. For me, battery power is the only way to go if you also have live steam.

I just wish HO scale could run on rechargeable batteries and there was an AirWire900 system for them so dirty track could be a thing that I would never have to worry about. I'm a member of an HO scale club that has a 20x40 foot layout, and we are trying to entice N-scalers to build a layout also. Three members have G scale, one has Lionel Standard and O scale, one has TT, and some don't have any trains at all.

We try to set up all scales duriing our semi-annual open houses so the general public can see how much variety there is.

Those who might be interested can see our club layout and my back yard G-scale layout, as well as others in the area, at http://members.cox.net/cacole2 (hint, hint)

[ttrigg]

In the early 70's, while in Germany (in the Army) the wife and I stumbled onto a store full of a size of train I had never heard of before. In our little German and his limited English we were able to figure out that this train went outside in the yard. Having just made the jump to N from HO, and not having any "outside" space, all I could do was dream. I feel that I have now grown up, I am moving on with the GRR at a speed that I wish was not so SLOW. The wife reminds me that I could have done this much faster 30~35 years ago, but now it takes a little longer. I feel as though I'm in the right forum now. Like I have said before, I get a strange feeling when at my local "train store" and see the people who are getting the HO and N scale stuff. Their belts hang down about a dozen or so inches below the tops of their underwear! I was scrolling through some of the posts over at MR and have never succumbed with morbid curiosity when I read a post titled "How Do I Lay Flex Track", I think he was talking about N scale. Even though I have only had GRR stuff I'm my possession for little over a year and a half, I feel as if I am with my own her at GRR.

[markn]

"Real" model railroaders don't have to put "weather" on-we clean it off!-I honestly think once we take the step outside and deal with the elements you have moved from "model" railroading to "miniature" railraoding

[John Busby]

Hi Marty
If you really want to let off steam I am sure a suitable RC steamer is the best way to do that[:D]
We are modellers too ERR No!! sorry but we build real railrways that must get through come rain hail and snow
We also have to leave fiddely bits that break off our trains or make them from metal[^]
You want to see disbelief watch an indoor modeller while you do some shunting (switching) in the yard with a well run in and well behaved full RC steam loco.
We dont make scenery iether we engineer the landscape the same as 12" =1'
How many indoor trains have handbrakes that can be pined for the down hill run?
If we buy the right bits and have the right outline we can have that.
I asume that since working U.K hand brakes are avalable that some one in the US makes your style of working hand brakes??
regards John
PS wheres the refreshments is that BBQ done yet! you will not hear that indoors[C=:-)][:D]

[tangerine-jack]

Ah, the sights and sounds of outdoor railroading! Bells, whistles, sizzling of steaks, the smell of charcoal and fresh air and flowers! I'll take that any day over a stuffy room with artificial light and a nuked bowl of soup.

Yes, it can be as real to the prototype as you want, real steam, real diesel, operating hand brakes, or whatever else you want to do.

Come on over, John, I've got a nice Angus rib-eye with your name on it, and a nice cold beverage of your choice. Feel free to drop some crumbs on the layout TOC, it's OK! Bring your camera Marty, we'll lay down on the tracks and get some good shots. GP-9 and Cacole, we can go into the garage and hammer some G-scale cars together. Keep your inside layouts, the garden is for friends and real good time fun.


[oX)]

[John Busby]

Hi Tangerine Jack
Dont forget the onion"s can't have a BBQ without them now where did I put that
cooked on a BBQ desert recipie that might come in handy,
might as well do the job properly[:D][^]
It might just happen one day.
Would love to meet some of the guys on this forum in person over a few quiet Drinks BBQ and Railway[:D]
regards John

[vsmith]

Hi Marty

Being indoors I spend a bit of time over at the MR forum, try to spread the word about largescale, some get it, most dont, not that they couldnt get it, they just refuse to look at anything outside of their little box.

Doesnt matter if its large scale or not, indoors or outdoors, if its different from thier perception of what model railroads should be its like they put their hand over their ears and cry "nananananana aint listening aint listening"

Seams like the guys who have multiple scales are the most open minded. Thier are several guys there with N, HO, O, and a garden RR, they get it. But their are more of the types with a 4x8 layout in their basement, and are happy with just that but then theres a select few thatwill ever only have one scale, usually HO or N, because thats the scale God determined to be the correct scale and everything else is rubbish, and everything outside of their basement walls is rubbish. Luckily they are only a very small portion and are generally not social enough to come out of their basements to mix with other modelers.

Like you said, once someone sees a good garden layout its like a blindfold has been lifted from their heads, I've heard of this being the case many a time at the Fairplex, and during the last GATS there I could see and hear a lot of smaller scale guys saying, "Wow, thats so cool" or "Maybe we could do that in the backyard honey?"

[Anonymous]

To continue with Marty's comparisons to HO, how about????

Indoor - Occasional misbehaved cat knocking something over
Outdoor - Neighbors dog running free doing damage. How about a deer browsing on the scenery or stepping on and breaking a building? What about a mole making its own tunnels?

Indoor - Dust on track
Outdoor - Fallen leaves

Indoor - Fi***ank with plentiful fish
Outdoor - Raccoon or heron with plentiful stomach

[tangerine-jack]

Inside: Pasty white skinned non socially adapted pre juvenile computer geeks
Outside: Hearty tanned real MEN with bulging muscles (and women of grace, bearing and gentleness) and social leadership ability recognized by the community as being worthy of honor.

Inside: Cat destroying downtown "Homeville" and peeing on it in a manner comparable to the Gotterdamerung destruction of Tokyo by a cheezy monster.
Outside: Excellent sniper shot at prize wall hanger Buck.

Inside: Fragile little toy train trying to imitate big ones, and failing patheticaly.
Outside: Rugged miniature railroads coexisting in a prototypical manner with nature.

Inside: plaster and foam trying to act like something it is not, fooling no one.
Outside: Real rocks and dirt outliving the ages, changing with the seasons- imitating nothing- giving a real joy and beauty that only nature is capable of producing.

Bring it on OSPandC, we haven't had a good verbal battle on this forum for a long time!

(ok guys, now's the time to jump in, I've opened the can of whoop %#ss)

[oX)]

[Anonymous]

You think you have problems.
Try building G scale trams,run them in the garden and ask people to understand.At least most people are aware of what a train is.
"oooh.Look at the bus going around the garden"

"Ok.It's not a bloody bus.OUT.Don't come back until you've read a transport history book "
[:)]

[vsmith]

Whachit there Jack ol' buddy, [;)]

I remind you that while the newly established Fubar & Snafu branch IS outdoors, the mainline Borracho Springs RR is an INDOOR layout [:O]

I'm trying at doing that "finescale" thingy they love to publish in that SL & NG Gazoot magazine[:-,]

I doubt anyone would call me a computer geek given that I have a hard enough time typing propoerly (see what I mean?)

So I'da be a bit carefull diss'in somethin' without knowin' just who ya might end up diss'in' [(-D]

[vsmith]

Marty

If you REALLY want to blow some cerebrial cortexs in the MR forum, post those aerial shots you posted on MLS!

Those would melt their brains ![(-D][:-,][D)]

[tangerine-jack]

No slam on you Vic, you are an "honorary" Large Scale Garden Railroader, your heart is in the garden, it's not your fault you don't have an outdoors. My apologies to anyone reading this forum that falls into that category.

HOWEVER, If you, by free choice, built something inside smaller that G scale, I'm waiting......[:-,][:-,]
Hmm, quiet isn't it?

[oX)]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

No slam on you Vic, you are an "honorary" Large Scale Garden Railroader, your heart is in the garden, it's not your fault you don't have an outdoors. My apologies to anyone reading this forum that falls into that category.

HOWEVER, If you, by free choice, built something inside smaller that G scale, I'm waiting......[:-,][:-,]
Hmm, quiet isn't it?

[oX)]

Oh Jack, as to the highlighted comments....

Ahhh, Maybe you forgot but......well .....
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44503
[X-)][;)][:P][D)][(-D][:-,][swg][:-^]

[smcgill]

When I showed some o-scalers some shotes of plowing snow "Is that real snow"
they all came to look!
You guyes fogot the smoke drifting into the air not setting off the smoke alarms!!!

[tangerine-jack]

I hereby issue a blanket apology to Vic- you do have an outdoors, it counts as a garden and meets the requirements of LS Garden RRing. I will now fall upon my sword, ...er..... um.... my keyboard. [:I]

smcgill- don't forget the sparklers and other fireworks! HA! Try THAT one inside!!!
[oX)]

[Tom The Brat]

hehe I just told an HO model railroader that he needed to get out into the garden. His wife and grandson agreed[:D]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Marty Cozad

This has been one of those ,"can't get my butt in gear" weekends. So I spent way to much time on the computer.
I finally posted some photos and shared some thoughts on MRs forum and I think alot of folks have no idea what out door model railroading can be.
The term Garden railroading is so vast and covers so many topics that the gerneral hobbiest has no idea.
I had no clue way back but thats before all these GREAT models hit the shelf.

Plus at NMRA meets or Gats shows and other places that I go , you tell them your a GRRer and its OH,,,I see. then they go talk to someone else in their club.
HEY we are modelers to.
We just have to use different materials and deal with different conditions than they do.
I was thinking that I use many methods that HO folks used.
around the wall layout, we use a fence, dividing a layout in half, we use hills or bushes to give distance.
And yes ,,some of us run year round if we can. We plan and build year round.
I wonder how many HO folks looked at GRYs mag at the hobby store and read Eric's artical. That was as good as any HO bash.
And the box car two part artical would easily fit into MRs mag.
Oh well, I'm just venting.

My wife tells me that i live in my own little world, I remind her, she lives with me in it also.[;)]

Marty, [;)][}:)][;)]

So misunderstood!?!

I've dabbled in a few scales - remember I wrote scales not toys - and when I decided to go to IIm one of my friends (a 100% proto modeler) asked me why I would want to start playing with toys at my age, after all I was a proto modeler in HOm.

Soooooo, the funny looks and snickers will continue just as long as we have that "scale/gauge" discussion on a regular basis. That along with the "but it's r-e-a-l pretty!" (Not my grammar!) will make sure of that.

Having a conversation with a young model railroader will wise up many an old-timer. The kids - if they're interested in railroading - know the stuff inside and out; most of them have little interest in what they and I term "toys".

Of course there are plenty of Large Scale modelers and my money is on them being mostly stepping up from the smaller scales and not wishing to "compromise" on the scale bit. And why should they?

Marty what you need to do is have a picture album in your pocket with shots from your layout! That will convince people that there's more to garden railroading than tulips, petunias and "r-e-a-l pretty and cute trains from fantasy land".

So if garden rairoading is misunderstood, it's not the scale modelers fault. They judge by what they get to see in the media and on layout tours.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Curmudgeon

.....................................................

I usually have a pocket full of photos when the folks I talk to get glassy-eyed and want to go talk to someone else.
I suppose over 50 years in model railroading might just give me some credibility, but my pure orneryness makes them sit still.

............................................

Hi Dave,

Russ calling you "young Dave" must have been good!

For the rest and the above: EXACTLY!! [#ditto][#ditto]

[Marty Cozad]

HJ
As I was sitting waiting for my youngest to get off the computer so i can have a turn. I was telling him I need a new photo album as you said. Now I read this. Great minds think alike.
We have many challenges, just getting kids to think about trains is hard enough.
Let alone afford them.
I was watching the last part of some show which was about Lionel modern trains and how realistic they are with sound , lights,, action. Trains at high speed racing , shiny,,,, I just laughted as the guy talked about how realistic his "toy" train layout was.

Don't get me wrong, I have lots of friends who are collectors and realistic back in the 50's but now???????
You got to be kidding ME!!!!!
Yes he had more money in his trains than I will ever have but to use the work realistic.

Of course I'd love to see any railroader, toy or other wise move to town just to have some one close to play trains with.
Well back to book work, freedom of self-employment.heheheh

[Curmudgeon]

I've got stuff in "0" 2-rail that is from before WWII that looks just fine...in fact, the sand-cast aluminum hoppers, when done right, are mistaken for $275 imported units!
What IRKS me to the point of URPING is the underbody detail on "0" stuff these guys have to pick up, flip over and show you.
So What? I ask them.
Look of uncomprehension.....
"The ONLY time you're ever gonna see that is if you do something wrong!"
Like what?
"Derailment, crash, or...pick it up and flip it over...."

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I grew up with 726's, 225E's, 675's.....
The Delta trailing trucks, metal siderods and all that valve gear........eyeball height, knuckle couplers, but we re-painted with Floquil (or whatever flat was available), and re-lettered to something other than "Lionel Lines"....
Called us "Hi-Railers" back then.
GarGraves phantom rail, wood ties, #6 switches....
None of this shiny crap at Warp Factor 6.

My buddy and I both model Northern Pacific in 3-rail.
I also do in 2-rail.
We were part of the LOTS group for several years, built modules and went to shows...signed up to run together, just us, brought down all NP stuff....
60 car freights, double-headed (we had operating couplers on the nose of all our steamers), with a third unit 2/3 of the way back, running two mains at prototypical speed.
Kids actually preferred it, and it drew adults like bees to honey.

Last layout I built indoors was his, I think.
15 years ago.
Wired it up state-of-the-art 1940's.
One switch macine has failed and one solder joint to the black center rail in 15 years.
I was over there a month or so ago wiring in his turntable and roundhouse for a Classic Toy Trains cover shoot and story ( a ways out on publication), and the guys from CTT were amazed at the prototypical speeds and consists.
Upper level sitting on a barstool is eyeball height........

[cacole]

Well, Marty, you've really stirred up a lot of interest over on the Model Railroader forum with your photos. Keep it up -- I think you've got a couple of hot prospects for converting to G-scale over there.

[Marty Cozad]

Charles
I need to question my motives here.
Rene will be hearing about it if i am not careful.
One of her forum guys have ,,,"derailed"
Back to TOC's 3 rail stuff. man it ran, it runs . I had A.F. for years and neverbroke down.

Charles, maybe some day we need to try to get a "outdoor model railroad " in . M R .
Rene was kind enough to help me a little her because I told her that I don't think most of them in that office understands that we love to model to. In different ways.

I have been in the train hobby from age 8. my first Marx's set was 2 yrs old.
14 yrs in G and i feel I still have so much to learn.
My personal (sometimes) problem is folks look at how large something is, and not at the quality of the different pieces that make it up.
I rather show folks the few scratch built cars that I have done or the weathered ones.
The RR is just a batch of bushes, grass and dirt with track running through it. Now the bridges I'm proud of, tried to research and find photos that look believeable.
When our steam up starts this 24th I'm going to really try and take good shots of all the great models that show up and post some of them.
I get running around so much I usually forget.

BTY
On MR you'll have to follow the "How do you make snow ?" thread.
That will be fun.[:p]

[Tom The Brat]

hehe A small scale friend used to criticize, "G is for people who don't care anything about scale." Now he realizes that in G I'm very aware of scale and he has always just assumed it. Now he has a caliper and is discovering that most of his rolling stock is short and the track is wide...