Basic Design questions

[NevinW]

My wife wants to build a garden railroad and I am thinking about jumping scales anyway. I have a 9X20 railroad room that I might use for a relatively simple indoor switching G scale layout in the winter. I have a number of questions: Is a G scale layout practical in this space? What is the minumum radius for a narrow gauge Bachman 4-4-0 or 2-6-0? How about the Bachmann geared locomotive. What is the space for track centers? Is handlaying track in this scale practical? Thanks - Nevin

[cacole]

Check the August and September issues of Model Railroader magazine. Tony Koester is in the midst of showing how to build a portable, sectional, G-scale layout for indoor use. The Cleremont & Concord Railway he is describing uses lightweight foam construction and four folding tables.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NevinW

My wife wants to build a garden railroad and I am thinking about jumping scales anyway. I have a 9X20 railroad room that I might use for a relatively simple indoor switching G scale layout in the winter. I have a number of questions: Is a G scale layout practical in this space? What is the minumum radius for a narrow gauge Bachman 4-4-0 or 2-6-0? How about the Bachmann geared locomotive. What is the space for track centers? Is handlaying track in this scale practical? Thanks - Nevin

Nevin

Dont be put off by Ian, Theres no such thing as "winter" where he lives, and he has an unfair advantage on all of us as his house confronts a sandy beach frequented by lovely young things wearing a strap of fabric and calling it a swim suit! Heck I'd be outside all the time also! [;)]

I'm indoors also in an area almost the same size, 8 x 20 for me it can be done and done well, mine is a point to point switcher with a small loop built in, although the loop is not considered when operations are planned, its more for display running.

Ian does have a point about portables in G, it can be done, but it aint easy! If your going to do it indoors better to build it in permanently, if you have to do it portable, I recommend using hollow core doors with adjustable table legs under. Also you will need to find a way to clamp the tables together and a way to wire it with disconnects, there was a layout this year at the Big Train Show at the Queen Mary made of six 3' x 6' hollow core doors, used 5 foot diameter curves, and it went together in less than an hour. So it can be done, but the planning of it is crucial and you will be very limited in terms of scenery weight.

The Bachmann 440 and the 260 Spectrum locos both really need a 6 foot diameter (3' radius) curves to run properly, I've been told the 4-4-0 can do 5' foot diameter and the 2-6-0 will also but needs to be modified. The Shay will run on 4 foot diameter, the smallest available.

Handlaying track IS practical and FAR easier to do indoors, as ties can be glued down, sanded level with a belt sander and then spiked down. all it takes is the Kahona's to do so. I cringe at the thought of handlaying switches so I'm using commercial track.

As for Tony Koesters layout in Model Railroader, while I think its an interesting project, I found it to be severly limited in usage. Ian cant say whether or no the future articles are of any use as they havent been printed yet so we have no idea how Koesters foam construction will work out, I dont like the idea of using simply foam sheets sitting on portable tables, this layout mentioned does not look portable, mearly "can be dissassembled" if needed. But for the cost of 4 issues, I'd say go for it, the more you can read the more ideas your exposed to.

Also if you dont have Garden Railroad, get it, and also get Short Line & Narrow Gauge Gazette, perhaps the best source for ideas for us insiders.

I can recommend my layouts thread here for layout ideas, I went through about a dozen variations as my layout has evolved, might give you some ideas planning wise.

It called "The saga of my ever shrinking railroad"
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16963

Good Luck with it, sound like fun. Vic

[Tom The Brat]

I used to run my Bachmann 4-6-0 on 5ft diameter curves in my 8 by 20 ft asylum. It was quite content there, as would be any small loco or LGB.

At the convention, LGB was running a huge steam loco, some European prototype, on a very tiny layout. Not only was it handling those tiny curves, but it was doing it quite gracefully. I had to watch really close to see it had a pivot in the middle of the drivers and slotted rods so the drive train could bend in the middle.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Torby

I used to run my Bachmann 4-6-0 on 5ft diameter curves in my 8 by 20 ft asylum. It was quite content there, as would be any small loco or LGB.

At the convention, LGB was running a huge steam loco, some European prototype, on a very tiny layout. Not only was it handling those tiny curves, but it was doing it quite gracefully. I had to watch really close to see it had a pivot in the middle of the drivers and slotted rods so the drive train could bend in the middle.

My B'mann 4-6-0 annie will take 4 footers easy, it just hates Aristo switches!

Torby that was the new 2-10-2T Heintz (sp) loco, I saw it at the BTS with about 5 inches of overhanging rear end, also saw the LGB GG1 going around those 4 footers with about 4 inches of overhang front AND rear! Nice models but Oh My! not a pretty sight on those curves! [:0]

[Rene Schweitzer]

Nevin,
Another idea would be to contact a couple of the large-scale modular clubs and get their input. They are quite knowledgeable about what can be done in a limited amount of space, as that's what they do for shows and displays.The Illiana and Del-Oro are two that first come to mind, but there are others. Go here to look them up: http://www.gardentrains.org/gta/community/clubs/clubs.asp

[Tom The Brat]

My "Annie" does quite fine on Aristo wide switches, and #6. Never tried it on one of the little switches.

[John Busby]

Hi Nevin
Hand lay as much as you like.
the minimum radius is 2' some locos will go round some will not.
I have a Bachmann 4-6-0 that will make it but it doesn't look the best doing it.
Have you concidered jioning the indoor line too the out door one
that would make putting the trains away easy and expand the possabilaties of the whole line.
I still prefer the garden more room to play trains.
regards John

[Anonymous]

I only have one switch, an Aristo 10' radius, and nothing liked it when first purchased. On the curved track of the pivot I bent the tapered end of the track out just a couple of thou so it made up to the main rail a bit more sungly, no more problems either way now and no derailment in over 12 months.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[boydjr]

HI NEVINW ...i too had to build my Gscale RR in a small space...a 12ftwide x 19ftlong garage i used 3/4 of that space for my RR. my tables are 6ft wide x 7 ftlong. its a nice size layout with 5ft diameter curves and my aristo C16 and FA1 have no trouble with the curves ..same with my bachmann 4-6-0s that i have...if you want to see photos ..email me and i will share them with you and anyone else who wants to see them....bye for now... from the CREATURE COMFORT VALLEY RAILROAD.....AND I AM THE ...Gscale CAVEMAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[guysaab]

I read your message and the replies. Good advice, consider though, the future. A friend of mine locally started with 4' curves and has an incredible railway. More recently he's been interested in larger engines which require wider curves.
Our 8' radius was chosen for the prototypical aestetics. It was a challenge outside, but it looks great.
Smaller curve radius increases where you run track but limits engine choice.
It's all in your master plan.

[boydjr]

the bigest engines i have are the fa1 and rs3.both aristocraft..and i hve bachman 4-6-0 also plus i have aristos c16 the 2-8-0 and have no trouble with my 5foot curves and regular lgb switchtracks... well bye for now Gscale CAVEMAN..

[Anonymous]

boydjr
i see you got the picture posted , i have 4 RS -3'S AND I LIKE THEM , most of my engines are diesels have fun with them . i didn't see the picture , before i sent you an E-MAIL . ben

[Chompers]

i tought that the Bachman Spectrum Shay, Climax, and Heisler all needed 6' diamiter curves.

[Chompers]

corect me if im wrong

[Greg Elmassian]

Nevin, to answer your original question, sure the small space will be fine for a switching layout, but not roundy-round unless you severely limit your locos.

If I read between the lines, the indoor layout will be for fun in the winter, but there will be an outdoor layout.

I'd make a bigger version of the famous timesaver layout, and set it up as a yard with a bunch of industries inconveniently located. That way, you will have to spend more effort to pick up and deliver cars to industries, i.e. will make the layout "larger".

You might run a loop around the walls to get the biggest radius in for some continuous running.

Regards, Greg

[Tom The Brat]

My Bachmann Annie ran very nicely on Ric Golding's small LGB switches this weekend.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Chompers

i tought that the Bachman Spectrum Shay, Climax, and Heisler all needed 6' diamiter curves.

Shay and Climax will work on the 4 footers, the Heisler though does need the 6er's , its drivetrain is too long for the 4 footers and will bind up...at least thats the warning I got.

[Anonymous]

Why do you North Americans only think about industrial or mining set ups, surely you can stretch your imagination and think about the something more original and pleasant.

I like to run passenger trains, as well now as goods (freight) trains and surely you could consider something like I have done and that is produce a pleasant layout through which you would like to travel ypourself.

Would you rather see your trains go through these bleak landscapes or through pleasant scenery with flowers, decorative scenes of gravel and pebbles etc.

From the many North American model railways I have seen photographs of, they just about all seem to be just clones of each other. This is not to say they are not very good layouts with some outstanding and extensive work going into them.

My advice is to give your imagination a go and try to do something quite different, you will reap the rewards i can tell you.


Rgds Ian

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

Why do you North Americans only think about industrial or mining set ups, surely you can stretch your imagination and think about the something more original and pleasant.

I like to run passenger trains, as well now as goods (freight) trains and surely you could consider something like I have done and that is produce a pleasant layout through which you would like to travel ypourself.

Would you rather see your trains go through these bleak landscapes or through pleasant scenery with flowers, decorative scenes of gravel and pebbles etc.

From the many North American model railways I have seen photographs of, they just about all seem to be just clones of each other. This is not to say they are not very good layouts with some outstanding and extensive work going into them.

My advice is to give your imagination a go and try to do something quite different, you will reap the rewards i can tell you.


Rgds Ian

Soooooo what's your point?

Of course one could build a GRR with only R1 and a modified Disneyland theme park with a Shinto shrine, the Magic Mountain etc. etc.

However, believe it or not some people actually consider industrial, mining and logging railroads part of their heritage. And since they're handicapped as far as space goes, they build something that will fit the available space.

As far as lack of imagination: have a look at your posts regarding Indoors Large Scale and very small space Large Scale in the garden. Then tell us all about lack of imagination, make sure you address it to "North Americans"!!!!

BTW I think you would have been better off to model one of the extensive FRRs hauling cane in Queensland, at least you could have checked what's really going on and how the cane toads are doing.
You may even put in a request at LGB for a FRR diesel (or steamer) complete with an Aussie accented "Bloody hell" announcement which gets triggered when it derails![}:)][}:)][:D][:D]

Some of us don't "Tip-toe through the tulips" nor do we play ukulele.[:D][:D][:D]

[Curmudgeon]

Point?
HJ, come ON!
Remember "The Point" with the "Pointless Forest"?

Why some folks like industrial and mining (really like the "Why do you North Americans only think about industrial or mining set ups") is BECAUSE of LGB and their penchant for 1100 curves.
So, folks have 275.4 lineal feet of 1100 curves, what are they to do?
Exactly what Sunshine Boy did, lay continuous "S" curves and complain when things uncouple, I guess.

We run through freight, wayfreight, passenger, work trains, log trains, all on the railroad that doesn't exist.

But, I expected no different posting from the Sunshine Boy, really.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Curmudgeon

Point?
HJ, come ON!
Remember "The Point" with the "Pointless Forest"?

Why some folks like industrial and mining (really like the "Why do you North Americans only think about industrial or mining set ups") is BECAUSE of LGB and their penchant for 1100 curves.
So, folks have 275.4 lineal feet of 1100 curves, what are they to do?
Exactly what Sunshine Boy did, lay continuous "S" curves and complain when things uncouple, I guess.

We run through freight, wayfreight, passenger, work trains, log trains, all on the railroad that doesn't exist.

But, I expected no different posting from the Sunshine Boy, really.

Dave,

Actually...............

In my "former life" I instructed people in how to run some - for the time - "fairly sophisticated" machinery. There were four categories of instruction recipients:

a) the really smart - they would ask a few relevant questions and they got it.

b) the smart - as the above but a few additional questions.

c) the slower guys - everything needed to be repeated at least twice and then they had a least part of the routine.

d) the "dumb as they come" - they just didn't get it. Usually they were switched out of the training and someone else took their place.

Then, on a whim, in '93 I made a proposal to the school district regarding a "Model Railroading - The Basics" course. There was enough interest that the 6 week course run during three semesters.
Of course since it was "The Basics" there were plenty of beginner's questions, that was the purpose of the course! Interestingly I had only the first two categories of the above list in the classes, there was no "I just don't get it" and that was including explaining the difference between scale and gauge etc. etc. etc.
Yes, there was homework!
Perhaps we should provide "The Expert" with some homework assignments, there are people who learn much quicker that way. [;)][}:)][:)][:D]

OTOH it could be that those who enroll in courses shell out some money and have more of an incentive to have their brains in gear when they show up for the sessions. [;)][;)]

[Anonymous]

HJ.
Oh font of all things that are regarded as knowledge.
Of all the forums I participate in,
and the multitude that you preside over.
I have never seen you on http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/
Do you have a different log on name there?
Regards.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:

Originally posted by grandpopswalt

Gentlemen
To the “pro’s” who frequent this forum: we understand that this is your business and you take it seriously, of course you do, it’s your livelihood or at least steady income. But to the rest of us it’s just a hobby and we’re on this forum for fun and we don’t want it to become serious and “proper” and stifled by rules and procedures. We are able to leave all that crap at the office where it belongs and I would encourage you to try to do the sam

So, lighten up and leave my forum alone!

Walt

I just found this.Sums it up.

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