LGB turning Chinese?

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

Hj,
Perhaps I'm commenting in my spare time,eh?

Hi Jack,

That's possible, but did you take off your LGBoA Marketing Manager hat?

QUOTE: One thing to keep in mind is the fact that LGB still does it's design engineering in Germany and the U.S. This keeps the product quality at a high level. There are manufacturers out there that source out a product from cradle to grave- in other words they depend on overseas factories to do all of the design work as well as tooling and assembly. This creates quality issues and usually big delays in getting products to market.

Wellllllllllll, let's see now. The trucks of the NO streetcar were designed in ...Germany? Complete with "nice wobble" and other "features". Same for the doors that won't stay shut?

I've written a review of the LGB 40880 RhB Fb gondola (*** please note: I'm an independent reviewer of RhB rolling stock for certain magazines, one German, one American. Independent means I pay full fare for the review items and they are obtained from various dealers in the USA and Canada ***) and some of the errors, omissions and commissions are attributable to the design, not the manufacturing process.

Since I also translate the German mag into English you can download yourself a preview-copy of issue 3/2005 http://www.easternmountainmodels.com/eng/html/gartenbahnprofi.html which has a comparative review of US 50+ft boxcars from the three mfgs, everyone of them made in China, with dissimilar results.
*** Please note: Our product line (Eastern Mountain Models Ltd.) has no overlap with the LGB product line, furthermore we produce items from Z to LargeScale.***

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

One of the main reasons that any manufacturer turns to overseas manufacturing is so that they can stay "price competitive". Unfortunately most folks these days would rather spend less even if the quality is in question.
It's almost impossible to find anything that isn't manufactured in Asia these days. LGB and a few other manufacturers are trying to maintain a good balance of Domestic (Germany) and overseas production. It should be noted that most of the products that require more intense engineering and assembly are still built in Nurnberg.
One thing to keep in mind is the fact that LGB still does it's design engineering in Germany and the U.S. This keeps the product quality at a high level. There are manufacturers out there that source out a product from cradle to grave- in other words they depend on overseas factories to do all of the design work as well as tooling and assembly. This creates quality issues and usually big delays in getting products to market.

Wage Slave Labor? Does it not produce the most "price competitive" product? [V] Well, I guess I won't be ordering those LGB trucks I was going to use on the tenders of my "Sow's Ears." Oppsss....I guess those were made in Hong Kong...

PRECARIOUS isn't it!!! Well, now on to religion...

(p.s. lots of political satire in this post)

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mt14l

Hi All

I took some time to do the LGB annual survey, and was surprised to see that LGB are looking to "asia" (I wrongly or rightlfully assume "China") to make some of their product.

The inference is that they are already doing so.

does anyone know any more,?

Has anyone bought an "Asian" LGB (other that the Aster and similar specialist loco) Product?

Any comments or thoughts?

Regards

Nic

Adelaide Australia

Mao wait just one minute!!!! Well, political and economic issue aside...Careful, what becomes of your economy!

[Bucksco]

"Dear Bucksco,

To give the forum participants a better appreciation of your relation to LGBoA and EPL, perhaps you could mention that you're Marketing Manager at LGBoA. That is if my memory serves correctly.

That would also put your comments in the appropriate light. Just a thought, eh!"

Hj,
Perhaps I'm commenting in my spare time,eh?

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone who has posted.

I am really grateful for your comments and thoughts. I thought there may have been one or two responses.

It is hard to not buy Chinese made items, so many things are. They are improving quality, just as the Japanese did when they started their great post war industrialisation.

I suppose I am being very altruistic, as I try wherever possible to not buy things made in China for a variety of ethical and industrial reasons.

It annoys me that manufacturers off shore work on the premise product will be cheaper, but that the savings for us at the cash register are minimal, and the social costs so great.

I see in one of our local papers that the Chinese government is imposing levies on certain products that are exported, in particular textiles. This will hurt my country, as the textiles industry was shipped out years ago.

Anyway - this ain't the place to rave

Undoubtedly, I will probably burn the first bit of LGB that I aquire that is made in China!

The street car (base model) is retailing for US600 here in Oz.

Thanks and regards

Nic

(living next door to a now defunct textile mill)
Adelaide, Australia

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by markn

I do not have any pre or post China LGBs (and may never given this thread) but I have noticed similar issue with tools and other items. As they learn more about capitalism, they are drawn to the "dark side of the force" as well-cut cost, increase production, make more profit-in some cases the grades of steel, aluminum, and plastic are reduced to save $$$ -that's great and why Bachmanns and most of our clothes are so inexpensive-I know that and expect it. But if and when I pop big bucks for LGB, I expect the best materials,close tolerance machining, and top quality fit and finish. Those of you that are buying LGB now-keep the heat on LGB and complain about the least imperfection, their costs are lower-did they pass the savings on to you? or just the reduced quality.....otherwise none of us have a reason to aspire to own a LGB (or Rolex,Cadillac, Mercedes, etc etc)

Hi there,

Good points. As a frequent participants on German fora, I can assure you that is precisely the tack the German LGB buyers take. "Made in China" = where is the lowered price!?!

And yes, those who keep close taps mention the "sub-standard" items.
My biggest beef? Those crummy plastic wheels! They get worse as we go and were none too good when they started.

[markn]

I do not have any pre or post China LGBs (and may never given this thread) but I have noticed similar issue with tools and other items. As they learn more about capitalism, they are drawn to the "dark side of the force" as well-cut cost, increase production, make more profit-in some cases the grades of steel, aluminum, and plastic are reduced to save $$$ -that's great and why Bachmanns and most of our clothes are so inexpensive-I know that and expect it. But if and when I pop big bucks for LGB, I expect the best materials,close tolerance machining, and top quality fit and finish. Those of you that are buying LGB now-keep the heat on LGB and complain about the least imperfection, their costs are lower-did they pass the savings on to you? or just the reduced quality.....otherwise none of us have a reason to aspire to own a LGB (or Rolex,Cadillac, Mercedes, etc etc)

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

This is allnot true, LGB only manufacture in Nuremburg I am going to see their factory for myselff on 11 July. so there.

However it is not that well known that LGB are developing a plant in Iraq to be run by US servicemen and for the benefit of US servicemen.


Rgds Ian

Hey Ian,

Make sure you're over the jetlag, don't overindulge in "Knödel" (dumplings) and/or beer. And enjoy the walk!
Since you go for the plant tour perhaps you could arrange ahead to have the Massoth expert walk along with you and you can explain your trials and tribulations with the MTS system to him. May need two go-arounds to get it all "tabulated".

If by chance you go to Vienna, make sure you drop by at ZIMO to see, and be shown, what a real DCC system delivers.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

One of the main reasons that any manufacturer turns to overseas manufacturing is so that they can stay "price competitive". Unfortunately most folks these days would rather spend less even if the quality is in question.
It's almost impossible to find anything that isn't manufactured in Asia these days. LGB and a few other manufacturers are trying to maintain a good balance of Domestic (Germany) and overseas production. It should be noted that most of the products that require more intense engineering and assembly are still built in Nurnberg.
One thing to keep in mind is the fact that LGB still does it's design engineering in Germany and the U.S. This keeps the product quality at a high level. There are manufacturers out there that source out a product from cradle to grave- in other words they depend on overseas factories to do all of the design work as well as tooling and assembly. This creates quality issues and usually big delays in getting products to market.

Dear Bucksco,

To give the forum participants a better appreciation of your relation to LGBoA and EPL, perhaps you could mention that you're Marketing Manager at LGBoA. That is if my memory serves correctly. [;)][:)]

That would also put your comments in the appropriate light. Just a thought, eh![;)][:)]

[jebouck]

I have quite a few LGB loco's in my collection, with only one made in China. (So far).
It is the New Orleans Streetcar. Basically the quality is there except for one (or two) things. The motor blocks are not up to my LGB expectations. It is the first powered LGB model I own out of 25 or so that the wheels "wobble" and there is a lot more gear noise than any other unit. I noticed right out of the box on its maiden voyage as it "wobbled" down the track due to bent axles. On both motor blocks.[:(!][:(!]
Also, the doors will not stay shut, possibly due to this vibration.[V][V]
It was definately not up to the precision LGB products I have know since my first purchase in 1986.
I have a few pieces of rolling stock made in China. They are OK, but the plastic is a little more brittle than the German models I have. And it is not the same plastic, no matter what any one tells me. It even smells different when you cut, sand or grind on it.
jb

[Bucksco]

One of the main reasons that any manufacturer turns to overseas manufacturing is so that they can stay "price competitive". Unfortunately most folks these days would rather spend less even if the quality is in question.
It's almost impossible to find anything that isn't manufactured in Asia these days. LGB and a few other manufacturers are trying to maintain a good balance of Domestic (Germany) and overseas production. It should be noted that most of the products that require more intense engineering and assembly are still built in Nurnberg.
One thing to keep in mind is the fact that LGB still does it's design engineering in Germany and the U.S. This keeps the product quality at a high level. There are manufacturers out there that source out a product from cradle to grave- in other words they depend on overseas factories to do all of the design work as well as tooling and assembly. This creates quality issues and usually big delays in getting products to market.

[Anonymous]

This is allnot true, LGB only manufacture in Nuremburg I am going to see their factory for myselff on 11 July. so there.

However it is not that well known that LGB are developing a plant in Iraq to be run by US servicemen and for the benefit of US servicemen.


Rgds Ian

[RhB_HJ]

Well ladies and gentlemen,

LGB has been producing in China for some time. Anyone who has a 2-4-0, have a look!
Nothing wrong with Chinese quality (usually), have a look at most of your electronic and computer gizmos around the house.
LGB's China production is a bit spotty at times i.e. they have QC problems. Case in point: the whole first batch of LGB 40840 RhB AlpineClassic Baggage cars had to be "refurbished" because the quality wasn't up to par. LGB just as soon not talk about that item.

Some of the problems have as much, if not more, to do with design. Design is still sourced in Germany, as is the toolmaking (last I heard in any case!). Some of the QC problems I put down to trying to shave too much off the manufacturing process. Sorry, there is no such as a virtual product running on real track, not as far as I know, anyway.

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Don't knock them, given some training and remove language barriers and they can be good engineers. I've seen some results of what chinese can do when they were running any kind of junk ships they could find. They could take old worn out junk and in time make it reliable again using handmade parts, etc.

Was the same with Koreans at one point. Junk ships that always broke down to becoming the foremost shipbuilder and innovators in the world! Just takes some training and talking!

No reason why they can't build quality stuff for us to play with!

[vsmith]

All of my Toytrain stuff has a made in China stamp on it, still works as well as the Germie stuff.

[cacole]

I think every hobby manufacturer is turning to Chinese manufacturers -- even old reliables such as Athearn and Atlas. Marklin might still be of German manufacture, but I have heard that Hornby of England is looking eastward after they bought the remnants of Rivarossi and Lima.

Go into any well-stocked hobby shop and, regardless of scale, nearly everything you see on the shelves is going to be marked, "Made in China."

[Rene Schweitzer]

Nic,
Curmudgeon is correct. LGB isn't the only German hobby company to do so--firms such as Noch are doing the same.

[Curmudgeon]

Yes.
China.
For some time now.
Some issues with QC, but most folks don't seem to worry.
TOC

[Anonymous]

Hi All

I took some time to do the LGB annual survey, and was surprised to see that LGB are looking to "asia" (I wrongly or rightlfully assume "China") to make some of their product.

The inference is that they are already doing so.

does anyone know any more,?

Has anyone bought an "Asian" LGB (other that the Aster and similar specialist loco) Product?

Any comments or thoughts?

Regards

Nic

Adelaide Australia