Hello,
I've spent most of my life in the O guage world, mainly collecting Postwar Lionel. While I am still working on my 14x10 layout in the basement (not much progress in the warm weather months), I've been starting to plan a garden railroad for the yard as well.
We have a Koi pond with waterfall and adjacent rock garden that are begging for some track to traverse the area (25 x 25 foot space). I've been looking into manufacturers and types of engines and, based on my price range, I've selected two that I think I'd enjoy operating: Bachmann's Climax logging engine and LGB's 2063 DRGW diesel switcher. Both are on the shorter side since I'll be using LGB R3 curves (4 foot radius) in some tighter spots. Both have front and rear couplers for switching that I'd like to incorperate.
What do you all think of those two? Both would eventually be upgraded with sound/DCC and both are in the $300-400 range. Do you have any other suggestions for tighter radius, twin coupler engines?
Thanks!
Hello Built by Lionel,
I am like you in that I have Lionel inside, and building a G layout outdoors.( I also have Flyer, H0, 0n30, and Ngauge running in the train room). I wanted to comment because I actually own a 2063, and it's a real tough cookie! LGB stuff is extremely well made. This engine will easily run on R1, also. I do not have the Climax, but I have the 2truck Shay. This engine will also run on R1, but breathes much more easily on wider curves. The advantage here is 2 motors, and gearboxes, which comes in handing with a little longer train.
Both are great choices! Although LGB ruggedness and quality is hard to beat. I guess it comes down to personal taste!
Paul
To give you a good answer, we would need to know grades and how many cars you wish to pull with your loco.
Visit my site: http://www.elmassian.com - lots of tips on locos, rolling stock and more.
Click here for Greg's web site
BLT,
Per PIKO, it has a track powered option (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1960/4221/files/PIKO_25-Ton-Diesel-Info-Booklet_low.pdf?10762605788614708974). The battery powered version might be a tad wimpy for your grade and intended purposes. Ours, a battery powered variant, is very happy on slight grades with a string of "minis" from HLW or the Feldbahn series from LGB, but it would struggle, I think, wiht the trains you are describing.
The following is a longer, heavier train:
Diesel Dan, as we call him, really looks better, in my opinion, pulling the short stuff (VIDEO: Diesel Dan Pulls the Short Stuff).
Another selling point for me is PIKO USA's amazing customer service and product support. I documented my initial take on this loco and the company's support here: PIKO Clean Machine -- A Tropical Take.
I love LGB, and their are solid companies with helpful staff (I like TrainLi) to keep my ka'a ahi iki (little fire coaches) in fighting trim for years to come. Still, PIKO gets solid reviews for its reliability. The only downside seems to be the lack of second hand parts on e-Bay.
Have fun with your hunt!
Eric
BLT_BY_LIONEL Eric, thank for the recommendation of the Piko 25 Tonner. Does it have a track power option? I will admit, I do like the side rods on the LGB DRGW, but the price difference is tempting. Paul, have you had any issues with the shay? I’ve come across a few thing about the two truck models being an issue. As far as LGB goes, I’ve heard nothing be great things about their products… I guess you get what you pay for. Greg, although not set in stone, I’m estimating a rise in 1 foot from low to high point over about 40-45 feet. So, that is a max of 2.2-2.5 percent grade? Maybe a spur or siding would be a bit steeper but that’d only be shunting a car or two. I am not planning on running long trains, maybe 4 to 7 of the 14-15” cars most companies offer. Thank you all for your replies so far!
Bachmann service department is top notch in my book, very happy with their service!
The Climax had an early run, and I believe it was re-released in a later run with metal gears. A lot of torque on the gears in this scale, be careful not to overload. 2.5 percent with 7 cars needs 2 motor blocks to do it safely.
Good to know about the motors, Paul. On flat terain how many cars can your 2063 and shay each pull comfortably? Maybe I can work on a slighter grade regardless.
Eric, your piko recommendation had me looking at their short passenger cars. I could definitely see those on a smaller railroad like the one I'm planning.
Thanks again for all the info.
Hi BLT,
the 2063 can easily pull those 7 cars on LEVEL track. It's pretty tough. On a gradient, this drops to 4 or 5 lighter cars. I pull 3 Accucraft cars and an LGB caboose on about a 2 percent without breaking a sweat. Wouldn't push my luck, however.
The Shay, being a 2 motor block engine, I feel comfortable loading 'er down with 5 Accucraft cars and an LGB caboose on 2 percent. This is very similar to the questions Baldwin would ask of those placing a locomotive order!
At one time, I made a matrix of what each engine could pull in number of cars, and minimum radius. But, my roster keeps changing as engines go out of service, and come back out of the shop as something new.
I will say the LGB part of the roster has remained constant, with exception of the Lehman Porter.
Wow, didn't realize how big 2.5% could be.... I've been spoiled with Lionel's magnetraction all these years. I think I'll have to eventually do a real survey of the area with a water level and see what my true grades are going to be. Thank you for the help... now back to my search
2-2.5% grades... up to 7 cars
climax - great
lgb, may struggle, keep the traction tires in good shape, more like 4 cars
Pike 25 tonner.... no way...
Greg
BLT_BY_LIONEL Wow, didn't realize how big 2.5% could be.... I've been spoiled with Lionel's magnetraction all these years. I think I'll have to eventually do a real survey of the area with a water level and see what my true grades are going to be. Thank you for the help... now back to my search
BLT_BY_LIONEL Eric, your piko recommendation had me looking at their short passenger cars. I could definitely see those on a smaller railroad like the one I'm planning.
Glad to help, BLT.
If I may, don't forget to consider how you plan to enjoy the end product. We deliberately planned away grades to keep operations simple in a house full of kids and because we wanted the Triple O to run with nominal attendance while entertaining friends and family. If you plan to actively "drive" your trains, then maybe the grade might add more interest than problems.
Welcome into the Garden Railway world!
I think the 2063 is an excellent choice for a first engine. Solid , reliable, robust. It may not pull as many cars as others, but it'll get you going with a strong foundation, and you can add on from there.
BLT_BY_LIONEL Eric, I think we have similar goals for operation. The area is right next to our deck where we entertain guests often. The sound and sights of trains will be a nice addition to the waterfall background noise. Although I may sacrifice some operational variety with the lack of hills, I think I can fill that void with turnouts, sidings, etc. ....I just read “Garden Railroading: Getting Started in the Hobby” offered by Kalmbach Publishing. I found it very helpful and informative.
BLT, glad to help. You cannot go wrong with LGB locomotives. Yours will bring you years of joy!
With regards to books, I ended up buying pretty much all of the the GR reference books, and they are very, very well thumbed:
For their inspirational value, I bought:
The latter convinced me I had a ways to go before bringing live steam to the Triple O!
At the risk of tooting my own horn, my thread on this page "Progress on the Triple O" documents five years of Q&A in bringing our own little railroad to life starting from a base skill level was "Zero." There may be some practical applications - and misapplications of the same - of use to you in that thread.
Welcome to the club!
Thank you both. I'll look into those books and have already been looking at your progress thread... great stuff Hopefully I'll be starting one myself as well soon enough!
John
Evaluating engines: I started out with the LGB stanza. It lasted forever but it wasn't exactly the "style" that fit my mid US steam era of the old west. I next bought a Bachmann "Connie" 2-8-0. At first it worked with everything I tried but then the gear box and final drive gear gave out multiple times and it became unreliable. I next tried the Bachmann 3-truck Shay. It worked until the third year when the piston unit locked up. Replaced it and it worked for another year but is now having problems again. The Shay with three motors will pull anything. I typically pull 6 log cars with heavy pine limb logs and a large battery up a 1.5% grade. My next engine was a Thomas which is very light. The cars, Annie and Clarabell, are single axle and derail on any slight twist in the tracks. It takes a lot of attention to run Thomas but the kids love him. My next engine was a Pola set. It looked nice and ran well for a year but then the plastic gears started going south. I do run my trains a lot. My layout is in my front yard and I run trains for anyone who stops by. I am battery powered so it only takes the flip of a power switch and we're off entertaining all the guests that show up everyday. I may have to bite the bullet and spend some extra bucks on something more reliable. Any suggestions?
Rex
As I stated in the beginning to the OP:
what are your grades?
how many cars do you want to pull?
minimum curvature?
Hi Rex!
glad you're back. Best wishes for your wife, hope all is well.
On engines, I'm an LGB man through and through....
But I also have kind words for Bachmann, and their service department is top notch. In recent years, they have gone back and re-released engines with metal gears. Check out their web site.
Used LGB can be a great deal, as well...
Greg,
I pull 1.5% and a max of 6 heavy log cars over my 1,000 ft of mainline. Minimum curvature is an 8 ft dia at my mine loop. The helix is a 16.25 ft dia three level structure. What do you recommend for the mid steam era?
Rex,
Bill, who posts here as ChochoWilly, has done some incredible work on used STAINZ and the closesly related LGB 2017D, transforming both into incredible models of American-inspired prototypes. You may be able to get the look you want at a low price with this technique.
I do not own but have heard nothing but positive things about the PIKO line of US-inpsired models in terms of reliability. They do seem rather "detail light" from the handful I've seen in my annual jaunts across the Pacific. Depending upon your parts box, this might not be a bad thing.
Rex, I'd say bite the bullet and buy a Bachmann C19, will pull your loads, looks great, will handle the grades, and is the best loco that Bachmann ever built.
I know it may be above your budget, but you will enjoy it every time you run it. It is easy to convert to battery, DCC, whatever you want if you don't run analog.
Okay I found one at RLD Hobbies for a mere $900. Trainworld had one on sale last year for $500 but not anymore. I'll keep looking. Christmas is coming!
$600 at star hobby:
https://www.shopstarhobby.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1071_1230_255_433_702&products_id=5286&zenid=jnlakog731r9r4qkhvpehgkip4
Big box arrived today that said C-19 addressed to wife. Gues what I'm getting for Christmas?
Great! You will love that loco. Watch the sun shades, it's wide and they are the first thing to get knocked off the loco.
The next thing I need to do is convert it to battery power and Airwire RC. CVP products offers a plug-in decoder board specifically for the C-19 - $149. The battery is another $114. The Phoenix P8 sound board is $168 from Reindeer Pass. Once all that stuff comes in I'll have to figure out what else I'll need.
Get the Garden Railways newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month