Need help deciding on my first engine

[Postwar Paul]

That's going to be awesome!

If you get a chance, put up some pix after you get it modified and running...

Paul

[Rex in Pinetop]

The next thing I need to do is convert it to battery power and Airwire RC.  CVP products offers a plug-in decoder board specifically for the C-19 - $149.  The battery is another $114.  The Phoenix P8 sound board is $168 from Reindeer Pass.  Once all that stuff comes in I'll have to figure out what else I'll need.

Rex

[PVT Kanaka]

Early Merry Christmas to you!

[Greg Elmassian]

Great! You will love that loco. Watch the sun shades, it's wide and they are the first thing to get knocked off the loco.

Greg

[Rex in Pinetop]

Big box arrived today that said C-19 addressed to wife.  Gues what I'm getting for Christmas?

Rex

[Greg Elmassian]

$600 at star hobby:

 

https://www.shopstarhobby.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1071_1230_255_433_702&products_id=5286&zenid=jnlakog731r9r4qkhvpehgkip4

Greg

[Rex in Pinetop]

Greg,

Okay I found one at RLD Hobbies for a mere $900.  Trainworld had one on sale last year for $500 but not anymore.  I'll keep looking.  Christmas is coming!

Rex

[Greg Elmassian]

Rex, I'd say bite the bullet and buy a Bachmann C19, will pull your loads, looks great, will handle the grades, and is the best loco that Bachmann ever built.

 

I know it may be above your budget, but you will enjoy it every time you run it. It is easy to convert to battery, DCC, whatever you want if you don't run analog.

 

Greg

[PVT Kanaka]

Rex,

 

Bill, who posts here as ChochoWilly, has done some incredible work on used STAINZ and the closesly related LGB 2017D, transforming both into incredible models of American-inspired prototypes.  You may be able to get the look you want at a low price with this technique.

 

I do not own but have heard nothing but positive things about the PIKO line of US-inpsired models in terms of reliability.  They do seem rather "detail light" from the handful I've seen in my annual jaunts across the Pacific.  Depending upon your parts box, this might not  be a bad thing.

 

Eric

 

  

[Rex in Pinetop]

Greg,

I pull 1.5% and a max of 6 heavy log cars over my 1,000 ft of mainline.  Minimum curvature is an 8 ft dia at my mine loop.  The helix is a 16.25 ft dia three level structure.  What do you recommend for the mid steam era?

Rex

[Postwar Paul]

Hi Rex!

glad you're back. Best wishes for your wife, hope all is well.

On engines, I'm an LGB man through and through....

But I also have kind words for Bachmann, and their service department is top notch. In recent years, they have gone back and re-released engines with metal gears. Check out their web site.

Used LGB can be a great deal, as well...

Paul

[Greg Elmassian]

As I stated in the beginning to the OP:

 

what are your grades?

how many cars do you want to pull?

minimum curvature?

Greg

 

[Rex in Pinetop]

Evaluating engines:  I started out with the LGB stanza.  It lasted forever but it wasn't exactly the "style" that fit my mid US steam era of the old west.  I next bought a Bachmann "Connie" 2-8-0.  At first it worked with everything I tried but then the gear box and final drive gear gave out multiple times and it became unreliable.  I next tried the Bachmann 3-truck Shay.  It worked until the third year when the piston unit locked up.  Replaced it and it worked for another year but is now having problems again.  The Shay with three motors will pull anything.  I typically pull 6 log cars with heavy pine limb logs and a large battery up a 1.5% grade.  My next engine was a Thomas which is very light.  The cars, Annie and Clarabell, are single axle and derail on any slight twist in the tracks.  It takes a lot of attention to run Thomas but the kids love him.  My next engine was a Pola set.  It looked nice and ran well for a year but then the plastic gears started going south.  I do run my trains a lot.  My layout is in my front yard and I run trains for anyone who stops by.  I am battery powered so it only takes the flip of a power switch and we're off entertaining all the guests that show up everyday.  I may have to bite the bullet and spend some extra bucks on something more reliable.  Any suggestions?

Rex

[PVT Kanaka]

Looking forward to reading it and passing the baton to the next guy bringing a garden railroad to life!

[BLT_BY_LIONEL]

Thank you both.  I'll look into those books and have already been looking at your progress thread... great stuff   Hopefully I'll be starting one myself as well soon enough!

John

[PVT Kanaka]

BLT_BY_LIONEL

 

Eric, I think we have similar goals for operation.  The area is right next to our deck where we entertain guests often.  The sound and sights of trains will be a nice addition to the waterfall background noise.  Although I may sacrifice some operational variety with the lack of hills, I think I can fill that void with turnouts, sidings, etc.

 

....I just read “Garden Railroading: Getting Started in the Hobby” offered by Kalmbach Publishing.  I found it very helpful and informative.  

 

 

BLT, glad to help.   You cannot go wrong with LGB locomotives.  Yours will bring you years of joy!

 

With regards to books, I ended up buying pretty much all of the the GR reference books, and they are very, very well thumbed:

• "Garden Railway Basics," Kevin Strong
• "Building Structures for Your Garden Railway," Jack Verducci.  
• "Miniature Garden Guidebook," Nancy Norris.

For their inspirational value, I bought:

• "Gorgeous Garden Railways," Marc Horovitz and Pat Hayward
• "A Passion for Steam," Marc Horovitz.

The latter convinced me I had a ways to go before bringing live steam to the Triple O!

 

     At the risk of tooting my own horn, my thread on this page "Progress on the Triple O" documents five years of Q&A in bringing our own little railroad to life starting from a base skill level was "Zero." There may be some practical applications - and misapplications of the same - of use to you in that thread.

 

Welcome to the club!

 

Eric

[Postwar Paul]

Welcome into the Garden Railway world!

I think the 2063 is an excellent choice for a first engine. Solid , reliable, robust. It may not pull as many cars as others, but it'll get you going with a strong foundation, and you can add on from there.

Paul

[BLT_BY_LIONEL]

So, after some more searching I kept coming back to the LGB 2063 switcher.  I think a smaller locomotive will fit nicely on my 100-120 foot envisioned main line.  As far a grade is concerned, I like Paul's idea of filling in low areas and making the main line more level.  It won’t be perfect but I think 1-1.5% would be doable.  I'm glad Greg brought up grade in the first place... saved me some headaches later.

 

Eric, I think we have similar goals for operation.  The area is right next to our deck where we entertain guests often.  The sound and sights of trains will be a nice addition to the waterfall background noise.  Although I may sacrifice some operational variety with the lack of hills, I think I can fill that void with turnouts, sidings, etc.

 

I want to do a good amount of planning and research before I break ground.  For the time being I have a loop of R3 LGB track, transformer, and the 2063 on their way and I’ll set up a temporary layout (is that even the right word for outdoor railroads??) for the time being.  I just read “Garden Railroading: Getting Started in the Hobby” offered by Kalmbach Publishing.  I found it very helpful and informative.  If anyone has any other suggestions or favorites, I’m always looking for something to read.  Regardless, I’ll be looking through past threads on this forum since you all are a wealth of experience and information.

 

Thank you all again!

[PVT Kanaka]

BLT_BY_LIONEL

Eric, your piko recommendation had me looking at their short passenger cars.  I could definitely see those on a smaller railroad like the one I'm planning.

 

Glad to help, BLT. 

 

If I may, don't forget to consider how you plan to enjoy the end product.  We deliberately planned away grades to keep operations simple in a house full of kids and because we wanted the Triple O to run with nominal attendance while entertaining friends and family.  If you plan to actively "drive" your trains, then maybe the grade might add more interest than problems.

 

Eric

[Postwar Paul]

BLT_BY_LIONEL

Wow, didn't realize how big 2.5% could be.... I've been spoiled with Lionel's magnetraction all these years.  I think I'll have to eventually do a real survey of the area with a water level and see what my true grades are going to be.  Thank you for the help... now back to my search

 

One possible solution is to elevate the lower end so that the overall grade differential is much less. Just a thought.

Paul

[Greg Elmassian]

2-2.5% grades... up to 7 cars

climax - great

lgb, may struggle, keep the traction tires in good shape, more like 4 cars

Pike 25 tonner.... no way...

 

Greg

[BLT_BY_LIONEL]

Wow, didn't realize how big 2.5% could be.... I've been spoiled with Lionel's magnetraction all these years.  I think I'll have to eventually do a real survey of the area with a water level and see what my true grades are going to be.  Thank you for the help... now back to my search

[Postwar Paul]

Hi BLT,

the 2063 can easily pull those 7 cars on LEVEL track. It's pretty tough. On a gradient, this drops to 4 or 5 lighter cars. I pull 3 Accucraft cars and an LGB caboose on about a 2 percent without breaking a sweat. Wouldn't push my luck, however.

The Shay, being a 2 motor block engine, I feel comfortable loading 'er down with 5 Accucraft cars and an LGB caboose on 2 percent. This is very similar to the questions Baldwin would ask of those placing a locomotive order!

At one time, I made a matrix of what each engine could pull in number of cars, and minimum radius. But, my roster keeps changing as engines go out of service, and come back out of the shop as something new.

I will say the LGB part of the roster has remained constant, with exception of the Lehman Porter.

Paul

[BLT_BY_LIONEL]

Good to know about the motors, Paul.  On flat terain how many cars can your 2063 and shay each pull comfortably?  Maybe I can work on a slighter grade regardless. 

Eric, your piko recommendation had me looking at their short passenger cars.  I could definitely see those on a smaller railroad like the one I'm planning.

 

Thanks again for all the info.

[Postwar Paul]

BLT_BY_LIONEL

Eric, thank for the recommendation of the Piko 25 Tonner.  Does it have a track power option?  I will admit, I do like the side rods on the LGB DRGW, but the price difference is tempting.

 

 

Paul, have you had any issues with the shay?  I’ve come across a few thing about the two truck models being an issue.  As far as LGB goes, I’ve heard nothing be great things about their products… I guess you get what you pay for.

 

 

Greg, although not set in stone, I’m estimating a rise in 1 foot from low to high point over about 40-45 feet.  So, that is a max of 2.2-2.5 percent grade? Maybe a spur or siding would be a bit steeper but that’d only be shunting a car or two. I am not planning on running long trains, maybe 4 to 7 of the 14-15” cars most companies offer.

 

 

Thank you all for your replies so far!

 

No trouble with the Shay whatsoever. Great engine. Mine is the second production run with die cast motor blocks. Bachmann offers replacement motors blocks for the Shay.

Bachmann service department is top notch in my book, very happy with their service!

The Climax had an early run, and I believe it was re-released in a later run with metal gears. 
A lot of torque on the gears in this scale, be careful not to overload. 2.5  percent with 7 cars needs 2 motor blocks to do it safely.

Paul

[PVT Kanaka]

BLT,

Per PIKO, it has a track powered option (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1960/4221/files/PIKO_25-Ton-Diesel-Info-Booklet_low.pdf?10762605788614708974).  The battery powered version might be a tad wimpy for your grade and intended purposes.  Ours, a battery powered variant, is very happy on slight grades with a string of "minis" from HLW or the Feldbahn series from LGB, but it would struggle, I think, wiht the trains you are describing.  

 

The following is a longer, heavier train:

Diesel Dan, as we call him, really looks better, in my opinion, pulling the short stuff (VIDEO:  Diesel Dan Pulls the Short Stuff).

Another selling point for me is PIKO USA's amazing customer service and product support.  I documented my initial take on this loco and the company's support here:  PIKO Clean Machine -- A Tropical Take.

 

   I love LGB, and their are solid companies with helpful staff (I like TrainLi) to keep my ka'a ahi iki (little fire coaches) in fighting trim for years to come.  Still, PIKO gets solid reviews for its reliability.  The only downside seems to be the lack of second hand parts on e-Bay.

 

Have fun with your hunt!

Eric

[BLT_BY_LIONEL]

Eric, thank for the recommendation of the Piko 25 Tonner.  Does it have a track power option?  I will admit, I do like the side rods on the LGB DRGW, but the price difference is tempting.

 

 

Paul, have you had any issues with the shay?  I’ve come across a few thing about the two truck models being an issue.  As far as LGB goes, I’ve heard nothing be great things about their products… I guess you get what you pay for.

 

 

Greg, although not set in stone, I’m estimating a rise in 1 foot from low to high point over about 40-45 feet.  So, that is a max of 2.2-2.5 percent grade? Maybe a spur or siding would be a bit steeper but that’d only be shunting a car or two. I am not planning on running long trains, maybe 4 to 7 of the 14-15” cars most companies offer.

 

 

Thank you all for your replies so far!

[Greg Elmassian]

To give you a good answer, we would need to know grades and how many cars you wish to pull with your loco.

[Postwar Paul]

Hello Built by Lionel,

I am like you in that I have Lionel inside, and building a G layout outdoors.( I also have Flyer, H0, 0n30, and Ngauge running in the train room). I wanted to comment because I actually own a 2063, and it's a real tough cookie! LGB stuff is extremely well made. This engine will easily run on R1, also. I do not have the Climax, but I have the 2truck Shay. This engine will also run on R1, but breathes much more easily on wider curves. The advantage here is 2 motors, and gearboxes, which comes in handing with a little longer train.

Both are great choices! Although LGB ruggedness and quality is hard to beat. I guess it comes down to personal taste!

Paul