A bit off subject, despite the fact I have very limited space in my basement for a model railroad other than Z perhaps, I still plan to construct a small large scale (don't you just love the play on words?) around-the-walls shelf layout just the same.
Power to pull my LGB Denver & Rio Grande Western combine will be the Hartland Locomotive Works Mighty Mack switcher of all things. OK, I hear y'all in the background slapping your collective knees (LOL) but I love these little critters just the same, besides, Mack did build the prototype that H-L-W used to base their model on as well!
There will be two Macks on the roster. The one for freight will get "steam locomotive" black while the one for passenger service will receive the yellow "Silverton" color scheme. Since my "layout" will be for personal entertainment only, I won't follow any prototypical rules.
The enginehouse I have selected for the Macks will be the Piko Goepplingen brick model with added modernized skylights. Though European in design, if you compare it to the old Revell brick operating enginehouse of the 50s, the simularity will surprise you.
As I mentioned, this project is for my personal entertainment only, and I'm going to do my very best to relive the one time slogan of Model Railroader, "Model Railroading is Fun!" 'nuff said? Thanks y'all. A Texan currently derailed in Deutschland.
One of the replies referenced Ozark having a sectional shed, but no link and I dont see it on their site. It also referenced Colorado Models building supplies with 2 links which worked.
What link are you referring to that doesn't work?
The engine house is surprisingly large and the Bachmann 1:20.3 3 truck Shay fits with room to spare in all dimensions, especially length.
If you aren't seeing the photos, you can go to my photobucket:
http://s112.photobucket.com/user/mkbradley_photos/library/?sort=3&page=1
Or Facebook "Oakhurst Railroad"
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Oakhurst-Railroad-207253652651132/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1385414734835012
www.oakhurstrailroad.com
"Oakhurst Railroad" on Facebook
Do you have a link to the sectional engine shed you refer to? I don't see one on the site.
Also, just bought the Lionel 8-82105 on ebay. Will build it and see if my B-mann Shay fits in it.
Mike
Thanks. Guess I'm going to have to follow daughters instructions. Use a 2x12 to nake a new mantle top.
Tom Trigg
ttrigg Thanks for the info. I hate to be a pest, but could you give me the base width of the shed. What I'm thinking about is my 'display track'. I have a length of track atop the fireplace mantel which I rotate different engines. From looking at your 'front view' pic I can see that I would have to trim off the roof eve on the backside of the building. I know that for stability I would need to run several 'floor stringers' under the rails between the ties. My house shakes a bit more than most. The bedrock of the artillery firing range at Camp Pendleton resurfaces just below my house. The 'sounds of freedom' deliver a 1.1~1.5 earthquake quite regularly. I can live with a small bit of overhang, just not too much.
Thanks for the info. I hate to be a pest, but could you give me the base width of the shed. What I'm thinking about is my 'display track'. I have a length of track atop the fireplace mantel which I rotate different engines. From looking at your 'front view' pic I can see that I would have to trim off the roof eve on the backside of the building. I know that for stability I would need to run several 'floor stringers' under the rails between the ties. My house shakes a bit more than most. The bedrock of the artillery firing range at Camp Pendleton resurfaces just below my house. The 'sounds of freedom' deliver a 1.1~1.5 earthquake quite regularly. I can live with a small bit of overhang, just not too much.
10.5 inches ...
ttrigg Looks good, nice job. I have a quick question. From this view I see the arc of a doorway. Does the kit come with the option of "door or wall"? If it has a door option I might go for one myself.
Looks good, nice job. I have a quick question. From this view I see the arc of a doorway. Does the kit come with the option of "door or wall"? If it has a door option I might go for one myself.
The back wall has a wood insert to fill the arch. It can be built with an open arch. You would have to build your own 2nd set of doors.
Thanks,
Marty
OK. All done with the 1000 shingles on the engine house. I also decided to put shingles on the adjacent freight shed. Thanks for your help and advice!
You are right, just some distortion in the image. The opening is "square" and the doors fit just right.
No sill, but I see what you mean. I will watch for that, as well as glue joint failures. There are nails in the key wall joints, but not the roof attachment.
ttrigg Nice job. Obviously there is some distortion in the first pic causing everything to look narrower at the bottom than the top. This is caused by lens size and aperture. Not much can be done with phone camera or the smaller digital cameras, DSLR can adjust the focal length, aperture and shutter speed. Quick fix would be to take this type of pic in landscape as opposed to portrait. Question; Is there a sill under the rails to span the door opening? A few years from now you may see some warpage and the door gap narrow or widen at the bottom. At that time (not now) you may want to add the sill to keep the door opening even. If and when you add the sill keep it narrow enough to fit between the ties so that you do not have to remove any ties.
Nice job.
Obviously there is some distortion in the first pic causing everything to look narrower at the bottom than the top. This is caused by lens size and aperture. Not much can be done with phone camera or the smaller digital cameras, DSLR can adjust the focal length, aperture and shutter speed. Quick fix would be to take this type of pic in landscape as opposed to portrait.
Question; Is there a sill under the rails to span the door opening? A few years from now you may see some warpage and the door gap narrow or widen at the bottom. At that time (not now) you may want to add the sill to keep the door opening even. If and when you add the sill keep it narrow enough to fit between the ties so that you do not have to remove any ties.
Almost done. Just have to glue on about 1000 shingles! It was fun and took about a week of staining and gluing (so far). Thanks for all of the discussion and suggestions!
No painted joints, good. Stained joints, use a Q-Tip dipped in rubbing alcohol and gently rub it on all the surfaces to be joined. If the Q-Tip picks up any of the stain color then the stain has not yet cured in place. Set the project aside in a warm place with as much direct sun light as possible. Repeat daily until the Q-Tip is free of color. That's one q-tip dipped in alcohol one time and rubbed on all surfaces. Most likely only two or three times will work. Since rubbing alcohol is 90% water you need to give the water another day to dry. Now glue it up. As for the glue, TB2 vs TB3, both a very good. Use the one you have the most experience with. You said you have some TB3, since it has a longer curing time it will penetrate farther into the wood. After everything is glued up you will want to clean off any glue that was squeezed out of the joint by scraping or sanding.
I don't have any important glue joints with painted surfaces, but I do have a lot of glue joints between stained surfaces. Those aren't going to hold? I assumed that once I applied sealer to the parts that the glue joints would not be very effective, but I was assuming the stained surface glue joints would be OK ...
ttrigg Oakhurst Railroad Engineer I have everything stained and painted, including a metalic finish for the vents. Question about the Thompson top coat - do I apply it to each piece now or wait and do the whole structure when it is assembled? I hope I have read this wrong. If you glue a painted surface to another painted surface you are just glueing paint to paint, not wood to wood. When the paint seperates from the wood, and it will, the building will fall apart. Stains have oils, oils prevent any glue from properly bonding.
Oakhurst Railroad Engineer I have everything stained and painted, including a metalic finish for the vents. Question about the Thompson top coat - do I apply it to each piece now or wait and do the whole structure when it is assembled?
I have everything stained and painted, including a metalic finish for the vents.
Question about the Thompson top coat - do I apply it to each piece now or wait and do the whole structure when it is assembled?
I hope I have read this wrong. If you glue a painted surface to another painted surface you are just glueing paint to paint, not wood to wood. When the paint seperates from the wood, and it will, the building will fall apart. Stains have oils, oils prevent any glue from properly bonding.
Oakhurst Railroad Engineer I was able to find 1-gallon "Copper-Green" in about 10 seconds.
I was able to find 1-gallon "Copper-Green" in about 10 seconds.
Look some more. Smaller container. You will need abot two and one half ounces. A gallon is more than you will need in this hobby over the next five life times.
If you put copper based preservative over strain: 1. The dry stain will block some penetration of the preservative. 2. The walls will be green for 3~5 years until the sun turns it to 'barn wood grey'. That is why I said to put it on the inside only.
Searching online at the Lowes website, I was able to find 1-gallon "Copper-Green" in about 10 seconds. Advantage internet over wandering the big box stores. Can I put it still put it over stain?
Oakhurst Railroad Engineer 2. Could not find the green preservative at Lowes or Ace Hardware. So, for better or worse I am going without it.
2. Could not find the green preservative at Lowes or Ace Hardware. So, for better or worse I am going without it.
1. How about Tightbond 3? It is more weatherproof, but has a little longer drying time and I have a bottle handy? Or it Tightbond 2 superior?
I have studied historical photos (most are black and white) of my era and region as well as the exsisting loco shed at theYosemite Mountan Sugar Pine Railroad in Fish Camp. A nearly common theme for engine houses and railroad buildings is that nearly everything is wood with sometimes white trim for windows and doors. Some of the over capitalzed ($'s) logging operations that quickly went bankrupt had fancy painted buildings. So, I'm going with wood stain + white window and door trim.
Thanks for the advice ...
ttrigg 1. There are several water proof / weather proof glues out there. My two favorites are Tightbond 2 and Gorilla wood glue. TB2 is rather quick and easy to use. Gorilla will hold for much longer than any other glue, DISADVANTAGE: while setting up it will foam out the edges and that foam is a bear to clean up after setting up. 2. Sealing and preserving the shed. Since your microclimate is not so different than mine I would first advise you to coat the inside half way up the wall with a copper base presevitive. It will make the wood GREEN so do not get any on the outside of the structure. It will take 4~5 days for the preservitive to cure, other wise stains, paints, glues and whatever will NOT adheare. Using the copper base preservitive will add at least a dozen years to the life time of this project. The biggest problem of wood and dirt is dry rot and wood eating bugs, and we have more than our fair share here in CA. The copper based preservitive will keep the bugs away for years. A good top coat readily available here in Calif, wooden deck finish. Add a bit of thiner to allow the deck finish to seep into the wood and leave a textured surface. I use the Thompson brand (both on layout buildings and the patio), it seems to last about 5~6 years before needing a new coat. Reccomendations: Think about what and where you are modeling as you select your color scheme. Larger prosperious logging companies will use more color than smaller struggeling outfits leave the wood bare.
1. There are several water proof / weather proof glues out there. My two favorites are Tightbond 2 and Gorilla wood glue. TB2 is rather quick and easy to use. Gorilla will hold for much longer than any other glue, DISADVANTAGE: while setting up it will foam out the edges and that foam is a bear to clean up after setting up.
2. Sealing and preserving the shed.
Since your microclimate is not so different than mine I would first advise you to coat the inside half way up the wall with a copper base presevitive. It will make the wood GREEN so do not get any on the outside of the structure. It will take 4~5 days for the preservitive to cure, other wise stains, paints, glues and whatever will NOT adheare. Using the copper base preservitive will add at least a dozen years to the life time of this project. The biggest problem of wood and dirt is dry rot and wood eating bugs, and we have more than our fair share here in CA. The copper based preservitive will keep the bugs away for years.
A good top coat readily available here in Calif, wooden deck finish. Add a bit of thiner to allow the deck finish to seep into the wood and leave a textured surface. I use the Thompson brand (both on layout buildings and the patio), it seems to last about 5~6 years before needing a new coat.
Reccomendations: Think about what and where you are modeling as you select your color scheme. Larger prosperious logging companies will use more color than smaller struggeling outfits leave the wood bare.
Checking with the actual end-wall part with the door opening, even the biggest flat top balloon stack included with the Shay clears the 10" height.
Greg ElmassianBy the way, how tall is your shay's stack? I seem to remember that mine was pretty close to 10" from the railhead. Greg
Visit my site: http://www.elmassian.com - lots of tips on locos, rolling stock and more.
Click here for Greg's web site
4. India Ink. Go to an Art Supply and pick up some inks. India Ink, black, dark brown, rustic red. Use small art brushes and wash the inks over the shingles, before or after installing. If you do not cover with a clear coat the inks will wash down and stain the building sides over time. As the ink washes out the shingles will pick up a natural patina. You will watch weathering by mother nature. Advantage: Water based inks will really pull out the grain of the wood. Noi nasty chemicals. Disadvantage: Will require touch ups more often at first but as time goes on mother nature will do the work for you.
Shingles:
1. The simplest method of staining them adds a week and half to 2 weeks to construction time. Pre-stain them, get 3~4 different dark color stains. Pour into glass jars then drop in a handful of shingles. Use a plastic fork to fish them out and place one at a time onto paper towels. Do not allow them to overlap as they will stick together. Advantage: Due to different soaking times per shingle and grain density you will end up with several shades of each color. Disadvantage: Stain is oil, oil will not allow glue to hold until they are dry. LONG drying time.
2. If you have a small air brush just spray the stain on one side. Advantage; quick and easy, one side remains oil free and will glue up nicely. Disadvantage: some will warp with oil on just one side. You have just sprayed a fine mist of oil in the air and have a possible explosion hazard. Slight but possible.
3. Glue them 'raw' onto the roof, then stain. Allow a couple days for the glue to fully cure. Use small brush/Q-Tip/cotton balls to apply the different stains. Advantage: Shortens construction time. While 'paint brush' dries out from shingle to shingle you will have a wide variety of color shades. Disadvantage: 2 years from now you will see many shingles have shrunk or warped exposing the unstained part of the next shingle down. If you air brushed the stain as you covered the edges of the shingles some will reach under the top shingle to color the bottom one.
CAUTION: Do NOT put the stained Q-Tips/cotton balls in the trash. In confined space as the oil drys out it will generate small amounts of heat. If you have enough in confined space it will self combust. Before our first child was born (I'm granddad now) I built the baby furniture, cradle, chest of drawers, changing table and the like. We used old t-shirts & old wash cloths that had been designated as rags by HER to apply the stains. when we finished they went into a plastic bag and into the trash can. 3 days later as I came home from work I saw 'steam' escaping from the trash can. As I lifted the lid to investigate fresh air entered the can and the fire flash singed off my eyebrows. Since then I have always burned the rags after use.
Hope this helps, or did I just confuse things with too many options?
Thanks for the advice. I will "soak it all up".
What about the shingles? There are literally a thousand of them and they are light colored wood. They should be much darker. The shakes on my actual (full size) roof are nearly black (or at least faded black - dark grey).
Additional comments:
Paint brushes; stay with the small ones like we used on plastic car and plane model kits. Q-Tips work well for stains in and around corners and sills, toothpicks to put fine lines of stain under the window sills. toothpicks with the end chewed up to brush stains under the eves.
Stains; find the color you like then purchase three or four shades lighter. Looking at the color chart uner the flouresent lights of the store is very deceptive. A color that looks natural at a scale of 1:1 will look exceptionally dark at 1:20 etc. outside in sun light.
Paints: Looking at an enlarged copy of your second pic I can see the seams between the planks forming the walls. A $40 per gallon exterior paint will be so thick it will fill in these joints and they will disappear. The cheap stuff (1 part paint 1 part water) will not fill in those joints and give the color you want.
Disstressing the wood: Most wood will have knot holes and other non clear wood in the planks. Remember these logging companies will sell their good clear planks for a high price. They tend to use the poor grades of wood for their own structures. If you go with no paint natural wood look. Knot Holes; use a 1/32 or smaller drill bit and twist by finger to drill small holes in most of the planks. Take a small piece of redwood or walnut and use your elec sander to create a bunch of fine wood dust. Mix with Elmer's wood glue and fill these holes. When the mix dries these color spots will look natural especially when stained. For color veins in the plank, use a fine and sharp razor knife (X-Acto) to cut fine and shallow "V's" in some of the planks and carefully fill with more of the sawdust paste with a bit of deeper color stain (maybe a red color), use the X-Acto blade as a putty knife to smooth out the fill. A lite sanding with 500~1,000 grit paper may be needed. Some of the planks will have uneven edges that do not fit tight against the next plank. Use a sharp nife blade to carve away the edge of a plank about halfway through your panel. Use toothpick to put some dark grey or lite black paint into the bottom.
Signage: If your shed is near a main line passenger route you may want to add some signage. Google search some old fashion Car, beer or tobbaco signs. Print them on a color laser printer, ink jet will work but not last 1/3 the time of laser. Cut out the signs. Lay them face down on a smooth surface and sand the back side with 500 grit sandpaper to remove at least half the paper. Use Q-Tip to paint clear finish on the wall the same size as the sign, apply the sign and then cover with more clear finish. Also search for wall storage for tools where the tools hang on the wall. Repete as signs and apply to inside of the shop walls. or paint 'off white' rectangles then paint the larger tools on the wall using toothpick as brush.
Accessories: Since you are in CA where every 5th grader builds a model of a California Mission in the spring time. Stop by your local Michael's store. Most years they have a blacksmith's forge (1:18 scale, still usable) 1:24 hay bales, 150 pound grain sacks, water wells with windlass and bucket 1:20, Several scales of wildlife, look in the 1:24 bins. (Animals; drill small hole in one foot, jam in a stiff wire (brass if you have some) to 'spike' the critter into the ground so it stays upright. You can also find a decent assortment of tools, shovels, sledge hammers and the like.
OK, now that I have extended your construction time by at least 150 hours I should probably shut my mouth.
Looking forward to seeing your finished product.
Before anyone questions the blacksmith comment. How are the logs brought to trackside for loading? Horses of course, so you find blacksmiths on staff. A nice blacksmith shop alongside the egine shed would be nice for the horses and tools and spare parts for the engines.
First I would caution about using the word 'best' around here. There have been more than a few 'heated discussions'.
Sealer? I'm going to say no. You want what ever coating you use to soak into the wood. As top coats soak into the wood they will raise the grain for some nice texture. Stains, too much too fast will not be pleasing. If your stain uses a thinner, get some. Start with 2 part thinner 1 part stain and wait at least a day between coats. Use extra coats along the bottom sill and 6~10 scale inches up each corner. Use a toothpick to put some extra stain under the eves. Varying the color thickness of your stain will make it look more life like. A good top coat readily available here in Calif, wooden deck finish. Add a bit of thiner to allow the deck finish to seep into the wood and leave a textured surface. I use the Thompson brand (both on layout buildings and the patio), it seems to last about 5~6 years before needing a new coat.
3. Paint. Any outdoor house paint will do fine. Use the cheapest you can find. The good expensive paints are very thick will leave a flat surface destroying any texture you had. The cheap stuff will be thin and soak in and give the color and texture you will be looking for. All paints will need recoating after a few years anyway. If your wife uses a food vacuum sealer and it has the "jar/can" option use it to seal your paint can for the next few years.
Now for the inside. Use a bunch of painters tape to cover the outside of the building. Using the cheapest cans of spray paint cover the inside with a battleship grey, a good 100% coverage. After the grey dries, back off about 2~3 feet and give a light mist of flat white 10~20% coverage. Use a sliver/chrome color for a 5~10% coverage. When the silver is dry use more painter tape to cover the inside walls from the window tops to the floor sill. Remain 2~3 feet and fine mist flat black until you have 80~90% coverage. You get the idea, add in some smoke and oil staining inside the shed.
The two smoke stacks: If your setting is New England area the stacks will most likely be copper. Check scenery suppliers for something to give a green copper patina. Southern to Mid West will be fabricated at the local blacksmith as wrought-iron, so you will be looking for dark grey with some iron-oxide streaking. Rockies to Pacific will probably be a mix of all the above plus tin or aluminum. For these you will be looking for dull silver to shiney aluminum color.
Add in some soot staining down the outside of all the above and some staining around the edges of the top cover.
Guess I need to leave room for someone else to comment.
The kit has arrived and I can verify that the opening is 7" x 10" which will work just fine. The kit box says that the overall dimensions are 40.5"(L) x 10.5" (W) x 13.25" (H) and that will also be fine.
This will be my first wooden outdoor structure build. There are about 50 wood parts + about 1000 wood shingles. Now, I need your recommendations.
1) What is the best outdoor all weather glue to use?
2) I could stain the siding. Stain + sealer? What products and brands? I will probably go to Lowes or Home Depot. I am in California, so some products may not be available.
3) I will paint the trim. I could also paint the siding. What do you recommend for to outdoor use? A favorite primer + best UV resistant paint? or something else? Recommendations?
And yes, I will post pictures when completed!
Get the Garden Railways newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month