For those who desire one to "spark it up" with controversy!!!

[Anonymous]

A little more than a year ago I was at the Trainfest at the New Jersey Aquarium in Camden when I photographed this "Teutonic Thomas" that my large scale buddy Charles had with him. It is based on a Spreewald locomotive.

Dieser Thomas ist wunderbar!

Regards,
Bill C.
South Jersey

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

It's called difference in cultures.Contrary to US beliefs the World is not America shaped.There is a lot of land out there with different things in it.The reason portholes did not catch on is that some bloke got hold of it and made it American.I think the same applies to films.I find it incredible that in filmworld,the US has invented everything,solved everything and saved everything.
If we had BigBoy or Challenger engines in England there would be no point in steaming them up.Park the tender down south,walk the length of the train and you are in Scotland!
Every country has its own traditions and ideas.(and unfortunately a MacDonalds)
Great Britain has had the highest ratio of inventers of any country.It's just a shame that we can't make the stuff.(look at Lucas electrical systems)
I have a video of all the Aussie railways and I really think Americans should watch it before feeling superior[:D]
Quote"
Since I have never ventured to Brittania would some one of knowledge please let me know, is 'homas the Tank Engine an fair picture of British Railroading? What is the main difference in these "old world" technologies and those operation in America?

Sorry to spoil any dreams but the trains in England do not all have faces and talk.What is this 'old world technology' business.We've been here a long time.Made alot of mistakes (empire included (but still the largest empire in human history))
but still amble along trying to help (now who could that be)where we can.
I know the trains leak but nothing leaks oil like a Triumph motorcycle.You can leave it standing for months knowing that no weeds are going to grow under it[8D]
A quick stir up and I feel better
Troy

I didn't mean to portray my position as one that placed American trains as "superior," albiet that was the cut of my brother's jib. I wished only to focus on the differences in style and to their origins.

There is a distinct difference in technology on the two sides of the ocean. I charactierize much of the European styles as "Old World," this is not meant to say antiquated, but rather as a measure of style. Our railroads here in America are based on frontier needs of the 19th century. Whereas railroads in England and the Continent were subject to roads that had been in place for centuries and had to devlop accordingly, America is a distinct opposite. Railroads paved the way across the nation to fulfill the doctrine of Manifest Destiny, roads and cities "poped" up later.


I appologize for the "Anti-Anglo" statements made on this forum, I took them to be jests and harmless ribbing. I, however, cannot subscribe to the belief that English and other British elements are inferior. That is simply untrue!

[vsmith]

Portholes go back to the first attempts at providing weather and wind protection on the open cabs of early steam engines. The earliest being a simple steel plate in front of the backhead that acted as a windscreen, into this was added openings to allow for forward vision, these were cut as circles, why, because a round plate of glass is stronger than a square plate and its easier to cut a circle into a steel plate than a square. If you'll notice almost every engine that has portholes is a tank engine, the water tanks taking up the area of the sideboards. Tank engines did not catch on here in America, plus development went off in a total different direction than Englan.

Early American engines far more quickliy took to providing some form of enclosed cab. These were built of wood, not steel like in England. Wood framing brought a rectilinear shape and rectiliniear square windows because they were easier to build. This has a lot to due with the distances a train must cover, in America it quickly became apparent that crews would be exposed to the weather for greater distances, in more climatic conditions and in far more remote regions. In England the distances a single crew might have to take an open cab engine were generally shorter and their times of exposure would also be less. Although I suspect a certain level of Sado-masochism as to WHY open cabs lasted as long as they did, clear into the late 19th century where in American they were gone by 1850.

Another design diffference that takes the porthole into account is the lack of front doors on the cabs of English and Euro locos and an almost none existant sideboard, where as on American loco from the start often had substantial sideboards to allow train crews to walk out along side the boiler to the front of the engine,British engines never showed the use of sidebaords as anything more than a place to mount the nameplate. There are no door at the front of the cab, to go out onto the boiler to the front of the train simply wasnt done. In America 2 small doors here installed in the wood cabs so the fireman could go out and light the headlamp without having to stop the whole train, check how the engines valves were sounding, check or adjust injectors, and also allow brake men to scramble from one end of a train to the other while in motion. This was in the days of hand set brakes but the tradition of using the sideboards continued right into the 20th century and today with the sidewalks all modern diesels have to the nose doors of safety cabs.

[Anonymous]

Thank's for the information and history lesson Vic!

[Anonymous]

No offence taken Captain.
The US is so big that it does not notice what goes on around it or remember its history of where it came from.This (as with us) could be its biggest downfall.It's a shame the language barrier omits most of Europe on this forum regarding steam railways,otherwise you may have dug yurself a big hole regarding this topic.
Well done with the support Ian,I'm sure Kim will add his say[:D]

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,
Just back into work from the weekend drinking binge. This topic is flying along at a great pace, I think I'll have to consider re-connecting the net back home! Ditto Troy Captain, we don't take offence. We just hang around until you think we've forgotten what it was about then jump all over you!! What's Yorktown? did something happen there? Our York has the national rail museum, wonderful place. Well, after all the jibes about Triumph bikes, Lucas electrics, Brit locos, the state of our army at the time we let you have America back (our supply line was a few thousand miles with wind powered transport) can I paraphrase something I have about an American institution.

Harley Davidson does NOT sell motorcycles...............
What they sell is the ability for a 50 year old, overweight accountant to dress in black leather, ride through small towns and open country roads scaring the s**t out of people.

Well done everybody, IAN/JOHN and all you Australians, I apologise, I didn't mean to eat skippy all those months ago. T-JACK/CAPTAIN and all you Americans, no apologies at all - I've loved every minute of this[(-D][:-,]We're all eating sand in the same c**p hole so I think that best sums up what it's all about. [2c]
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[grandpopswalt]

Troy,

Every country has it's own version of what is fact and historic reality. I remember visiting a WWII war museum on a mountaintop near Toulon, France many years ago. When you arrived at the museum you were shown a short film that was supposed to be an accurate story of not only the battle of Toulon but also the liberation of Paris. The film suggested that the French forces almost singlehandedly drove out the Germans and freed the citizens of Paris. It was hard to find a single British, American, Russian, etc soldier anywhere in the film clips.

I was in the military at time and remember being offended by this revisionist attitude. But I now can forgive that shading of the truth because I realize that even today many Americans aren't aware that our Colonists were greatly aided by the French and the Germans in our struggle against you guys, we even had Polish generals in the continental army. As I recall most of the history classes I took treated this fact as a minor issue. There are countless other examples in every country where we look at the world with blinders on.

Of course we think we're great, you do too and so do the French and on and on....... that's called nationalism, we're all guilty of it and there's nothing wrong with it.

Walt

[Gary Crawley]

Wow
I go to Melbourne for a few day's and when I come back to the Forum I find the Poms and Yanks at war, just kidding it's great to see the friendly stiring going on.
It.s also interesting to get the history lessons, as far as Thomas my grandson (3 years old) loves him and when he comes around to visit he thinks the garden railway has been built for Thomas.
What I now relalise is, Thomas is doing more for our great hobby by promoting it to the young than we could ever have dreamed of.
After all most of us became hooked after we were given toy trains as a kid.

Just to stir a bit more do you guys in the North understand that we "Down Under" can reply to your comments the day before you put them on the Forum, so no matter what you guys do you always be behind us in Oz.

Gary

[Anonymous]

Hi Gary
This too & from is an Aussie and I got the paper to prove it[:D]
That will teach you to head to the big smoke you miss all the fun[:D]
Handy having all the answers before the question has been asked.
mind you the answer to CC's question is a pearler Answer = Yes and No
depending on where in the world you are and personal taste.
certanly sparked a good debate and some light hearted fun as well.
Pity they are to far away to meet in person over a few ales.
regards John

[Anonymous]

Here here John,
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than a few beers with all my mates from this forum and to rip the p**s out of each other in between beer and train talk.
Cheers to you all guys,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

Now would'nt that be a cracking time.We would all be in our countries corners,with our flags behind us ,and our favourite trains in front of us.In between the ice cube throwing war there would be a minor wrestling match on the floor about prototypicle paint schemes.
In between the fight Kim and I would be stealing all the metal wheel sets that we could find (the're far too expensive over here)
With Captain and his band supplying the music and the Aussies providing the beer it would be great.
I love this forum[:D]
Troy

[Anonymous]

Hello Troy's Wife here. I've read this thread for Troy's sake and although I have no interest in trains because they block a large part of my garden I am very curious about the tenuous links that seem to have developed here. I spent a year in Australia and was awed by the beauty and expanse of it. I found the Australians to be incredibly friendly and welcoming and yet there was an obviously strong link to America by way of advertising etc. Just curious does America also have drive in off licences (Bottle Shops)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Gary Crawley

Wow
What I now relalise is, Thomas is doing more for our great hobby by promoting it to the young than we could ever have dreamed of.
After all most of us became hooked after we were given toy trains as a kid.

Gary

Gary you said it! I've read so many times that steam will be dead with the upcoming generations, Thomas is proving them wrong!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mrs. Betts

Just curious does America also have drive in off licences (Bottle Shops)

Mrs. Betts, If getting what your saying, the answer is yes we do have "drive thru" carryouts.

Mrs. Betts,[#welcome]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Gary Crawley

Wow
I go to Melbourne for a few day's and when I come back to the Forum I find the Poms and Yanks at war, just kidding it's great to see the friendly stiring going on.
It.s also interesting to get the history lessons, as far as Thomas my grandson (3 years old) loves him and when he comes around to visit he thinks the garden railway has been built for Thomas.
What I now relalise is, Thomas is doing more for our great hobby by promoting it to the young than we could ever have dreamed of.
After all most of us became hooked after we were given toy trains as a kid.

Just to stir a bit more do you guys in the North understand that we "Down Under" can reply to your comments the day before you put them on the Forum, so no matter what you guys do you always be behind us in Oz.

Gary

Poms and Yanks at war! Peri***he thought! I would say that US/ Aussie relations are at an all time high in this forum.[:D]

I enjoy the magnificent artwork of some of my Daughter's Thomas books. I really enjoy the television program as well. I would most whole heartedly agree that Thomas is introducing a full generation to trains in general. Most trains in the US are seen as a menace (people can hardly wait until the have passed, since they block the road) I contend quite the contrary, these brief "time outs" are a Godsend in these rapid and stressful days.

Most children these days know the world "Choo-Choo train," but have never heard a train that goes choo-choo!

The space-time continuum disrupted by the Aussies! Great Scott! [:0] I knew there was some code hidden in the constellations on your national flag![:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi Gary
This too & from is an Aussie and I got the paper to prove it[:D]
That will teach you to head to the big smoke you miss all the fun[:D]
Handy having all the answers before the question has been asked.
mind you the answer to CC's question is a pearler Answer = Yes and No
depending on where in the world you are and personal taste.
certanly sparked a good debate and some light hearted fun as well.
Pity they are to far away to meet in person over a few ales.
regards John

It would be a rare pleasue to meet you all, and at the same time would be spectacular!

Is there any of us with the finances to make that happen? I know any trip to Dunnunder would be years off (both in finances and family situation), unless some millionaire (or billionaire) could invest in my microferroquinology.

As for ale...Bring it on! In fact, I'll have one for each of y'all!

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

Now would'nt that be a cracking time.We would all be in our countries corners,with our flags behind us ,and our favourite trains in front of us.In between the ice cube throwing war there would be a minor wrestling match on the floor about prototypicle paint schemes.
In between the fight Kim and I would be stealing all the metal wheel sets that we could find (the're far too expensive over here)
With Captain and his band supplying the music and the Aussies providing the beer it would be great.
I love this forum[:D]
Troy

We could set up a parallel set of rails and have a "race off!" Or, we could have "Stockcar Racing"...Microferroquinologist style! A locomotive and a consist of stockcars racing their way to victory!

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

Hello Troy's Wife here. I've read this thread for Troy's sake and although I have no interest in trains because they block a large part of my garden I am very curious about the tenuous links that seem to have developed here. I spent a year in Australia and was awed by the beauty and expanse of it. I found the Australians to be incredibly friendly and welcoming and yet there was an obviously strong link to America by way of advertising etc. Just curious does America also have drive in off licences (Bottle Shops)

Welcome, Ma'am,

Its a pleasure to meet you. In Texas was have what are called "Drive-Thru Barns." They are a bit catch-22 though, our nation looks unfavorably at drunken driving, albiet more beer is sold from these establishments than in bars and pubs.

Very Curious, indeed!

Capt Carrales

[Gary Crawley]

Hey Guy's
One day we all should get together
"This is Heaven"
In Canberra you can get home delivered beer.
Use your imagination, Home delivered Pizza and Beer, sitting in your special chair with the train remote in your hand if only the wife would bring out the coldies.(beer)
Maybe I could teach the kids to do it when they are older or put a bar fridge out the back.
Hey a "Beer Train" (Thomas the tanked engine)
I wonder if you can be charged for Drink Driving a garden railway
Regards
Gary

[Anonymous]

Hello Mrs Betts,

If Troys railway blocks a large part of your garden does that mean that he only has a small part left to build in? I suspect you're quite pleased that Troy isn't into it to the extent that your father-in-law is!!

Have a gud un,
Cheers,
Kim[tup]

[Anonymous]

Hi Mrs Betts
[#welcome]
If I may be so bold I sugest you take on the garden side of the railway so that
you still have some garden left for your favorite plants
Thats what hapens in my garden as left to it i would have a great railway
but it would be err what's a garden.
In reality the two should be a colective whole that one doesn't look right without the other.and even some places where its look is what railway
I dont see no railway
Sorry Troy but you must leave your good lady some garden to potter around in[:D]
regards John

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

Harley Davidson does NOT sell motorcycles...............
What they sell is the ability for a 50 year old, overweight accountant to dress in black leather, ride through small towns and open country roads scaring the s**t out of people.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

I agree Kim!

Nothing like a Triumph Sprint ST [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi Mrs Betts
[#welcome]
If I may be so bold I sugest you take on the garden side of the railway so that
you still have some garden left for your favorite plants
Thats what hapens in my garden as left to it i would have a great railway
but it would be err what's a garden.
In reality the two should be a colective whole that one doesn't look right without the other.and even some places where its look is what railway
I dont see no railway
Sorry Troy but you must leave your good lady some garden to potter around in[:D]
regards John

I try to make the railroad more utilitarian, it will haul the produce out of the garden. in return, the plants agree to serve as trees.

[Anonymous]

Thankyou very much for your kind welcomes and replies. I am fortunate indeed that Troy has spared parts of the garden for myself and the children and he is quite insistent that the 320ft of track "blends in". My father in law's garden railway has entirely done away with the garden itself however, he clearly derives alot of pleasure from it.
We are fortunate here in that, not only do the children involve themselves in the garden railway, but they also have the steam railway which crosses the main road out of here. Far from being annoyed at the wait, we usually end up having to slow down and stop in advance of the gates being shut so that the children can see which train it is (They all still have names). The children did not know that electric trains existed until we took a tube in London and even then they thought there must be a diesel pulling it. Of course their only other knowledge of trains had come from the Thomas videos. They still do not conceive of the modern electric train. In this respect Thomas has been particularly influential.

Andrea

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

Hello Mrs Betts,

If Troys railway blocks a large part of your garden does that mean that he only has a small part left to build in? I suspect you're quite pleased that Troy isn't into it to the extent that your father-in-law is!!

Have a gud un,
Cheers,
Kim[tup]

My wife is not a gardener, our side yard was just that. Mostly used for parking, but now it Micaela County, Texas. All I have to worry about is someone driving over the garden.

Any of you Brits have some of those tank traps left over from WWII?

[Anonymous]

Hey Captain,
You forget that we have not been invaded for centuries.I think all the tank traps were left in France and Germany.
Well I must say a big thankyou to everyone.My wife read this thread and for a small time actually discussed trains in the garden.
Still would not let me expand though[:(].
I must admit when she started reading I was thinking 'did I say anything derogatory towards her' but no[:D].That must have been on another post [:-,]
Thanks all,Troy

[Anonymous]

I am very pleased with how this thread is maturing! (5 pages and over 80 posts!) It's a good thing I didn't use the really controversial topic and went for the lesser.

Only the Romans, Vikings and the French (ironically all modern day bastions of tranquility) have actually invaded England. You, the Brittons, have this uncanny way of assimilating the invaders that seems to save British culture. It too happened in the 13 Colonies that became the USA, all the German, Sweedish and Dutch settlers of Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New York, all became basically English.

Does any "American" rolling stock ever make its way onto British Railroads? (either in Large scale or 1:1) I have never seen any European trains (with the exception of a few German Diesels) on American lines.

[powlee]

Yes indeed Capt.
As well as american locos running in my garden, there are a number of Alco S-1`s running on preserved lines. A colleague of mine at my model railway club actually is part owner of an Alco based in Wallingford, England.
By the way, my parents told me the Yanks invaded us during the World War II and some never went home.
All the best
Ian P

[Anonymous]

Hi Capt Carrales
When your lads went home at the end of WWII a lot of their trains got left behind and if some is modeling the right period should have some wagons
and coaches that are obviously of US orrigins even though they have UK Buffers and drawgear on them the same goes for europe
In this modern day and age it is not so easy to pick what is of US orrigin a case in point is the Yeoman quarry company diesles I thought the English designer should be shot for that one only to discover that thier obviouse U.K modern design was in fact a product of General Motors no points for guessing where they are based[:D]
It is not so easy in all cases with the modern stuff to sat this is from the UK or this is from the US ect as it is Now primaraly designed for where and what it is to be used for rather than a definative nationaly defined design like they used to be so without looking at the builders plates it can be a case of your guess is as good as mine as to who built it
regards John

[Anonymous]

Hi Joe,
For the record mate, that was the Normans. We usually beat the c**p out of the French and then pull them out of it when the Germans go on a european tour. Another little tit-bit, the good old V sign, of the insulting sort, came about around the time of Agincourt when the French used to cut the first and middle fingers off when they captured an English long- bow man. Before the battle the longbow men gave the French the V sign to show they had their fingers. The rest, as they say, is......................
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

Assimilating invaders, hmmmm, are we the Borg??[;)]