forum members assessment of the various RC vendors set ups [?]

[imrnjr]

O'kay.....I've been attempting to run track power, got hundreds of dollars of clamps, got cleaning cars, got a PITA every time I think about running.....

What are the pro's and con's of the various RC vendors in "G"??  I understand that most (if not all of them) utilize proprietary recievers, so that kinda locks you in to them. 

Anyone got an assessment of capability/utility versus cost? Repair/maintenance issues?

How does the cost to outfit 3-4 locomotives compare to doing the same thing with DCC equipment? 

As you can see I'm full of questions..... .... and somewhat confused.

Thanks in advance

Mark 

[cabbage]

OK -well here in the UK -we have my personal favourite ELECTRONIZE. I did originally start out with their HX and HV series controllers (which were available as kits) and now I use the FR series controller.

http://www.electronize.co.uk/index.htm

There is also the MACH 5 controller which is used by "quite a few" of my friends -but it does tend not to like the higher amperages that I require for my models.

http://www.brianjones.free-online.co.uk/

There IS one person at the "club" using LocoLinc -I do quite like the functionality of of it -but the very low amperage of the on board controller -probably rules it out in my usage.

regards

ralph

[kstrong]

I've been using the RCS system for around 10 years, and have been pleased with it. The range of the transmitter is the biggest limiting factor, but for most applications it should prove adequate. (The newer transmitters have better range than the older ones I'm using.) While you can buy one transmitter for all of your locos, I tend to buy a transmitter/receiver set for each one. The savings isn't all that much to not buy the transmitter. Figure on around $300/loco.

My dad recently switched over from his self-built R/C system to the AirWire system, and has been very pleased with it. Range is more than adequate, which on his railroad can be a fair distance (100'+) The cost is comparable to RCS, though the cost-savings from buying only one transmitter and multiple receivers is greater. If you're only running one train at a time, then it's fine to have just one transmitter. (Just make sure not to lose it.)

I've not used the Train Engineer system in a long while, but I know many folks are using their LiIon batteries, if not the system itself. I toyed with LocoLink when it was first introduced years ago, too, but wasn't impressed with the interface. That may have changed since then.

As far as cost comparisons to DCC, I can't really say, since I don't personally do DCC. The problem with DCC is that you still need clean track. There is a new system coming out (it may already be out) that uses a battery back-up to compensate for dirty track, but the bottom line is that you still need to clean the track. I get the impression that you're finding that just a bit frustrating. If you're going to go through the trouble of stuffing batteries into a loco, just go with R/C and be done with it.

Later,

K

[Rex in Pinetop]

I have limited experience but I can say that battery power RC beats the heck out of polishing track and maintaining continuity plus the kids can play with it.  Airwire was about $300 plus another $75 for the battery and charger.  The next loco should only need the receiver and battery however that means one kid has to try and keep track of two trains with one throttle which is probably disaster.  Since I have a second throttle I'll probably go with RCS next just so I can compare the two systems.

Rex

[calenelson]

I too use the RCS brand of control. 

I have been pleased with the range with the newer TX24-(80-100 feet, line of sight, although I usually operate much closer). I currently have 3 (almost 4) engines converted. 

When I began in LS Trains, I opted for RC and Battery...and have been Very Happy with the RCS product and the Superior service from Tony Walshman and Dave Goodson (TOC). 

I do not own any other brands so I can't compare units, but I can tell you the RCS is a breeze to operate....my boys handle it just fine (5 and 3 years). 

Good Luck!

 

cale
 

[imrnjr]

Thanks for the replies.  I will continue to do a little more research, and I'll post an update when I decide to move forward.

Mark

[calenelson]

Mark,

that is the best thing to do...well at least I think so, I reasearched it to Death before I decided on what system to use!

cale 

[heinzm57]

I have been using Crest/Aristo Transmitter/Receivers in 4 engines so far. ( LGB streetcar, Bachmann 10 Wheeler, scratchbuild Boxcab and a scatchbuild railbus))They are the cheapest ones on the market.They work quite well. One thing one has to watch for , is that the package has not been opened when you get it. I got one which did not work at all. Some lame-brain fried it and send it back. Right now i am working on a Bachmann 45 ton. The PC inside the motorblocks is a pain to get out.

I am still trying to figure out how i could leave the original electronics in there , and use a DP/DT switch. If thats possible , i could use it on trackpower too.

Correction on the PC board inside the motorblock . Just slide the shafts in the gears back, undo all the screws, and take it out. I can't see why some people had to take it out in pieces

[TonyWalsham]

Well actually Heinz,

The Crest onboard R/C TX and RX combo is not the least expensive R/C system available.

[gbbari]

Tony,

How does the RCS cost compare versus the trackside version of Aristo T/E that seems to be popular (in some circles) for trailing car installations?

Plus, doesn't one also have to convert all of their passenger rolling stock to LED/battery if they want those cars lit at night, and factor in that cost as well?

Al

[spikejones52002]

DO NOT even waist the thought of using Locolink. I waisted a lot of time and money.

I wish MTH would sell there engine receiver/controller. 

[Del Tapparo]

And if you really want to save money, just forget the transmitter and reciever altogether! Use a manual control system powered by a microprocessor.

[FJ and G]

I'll give Del's advice a hearty second. Why bother with all of the junk, time, frustration and money. On board rules!

[heinzm57]

Hi Tony,

Maybe your RCS is cheaper in Australia, but if i get it , i have to get it from the US....they get it from Australian. I am in Canada. As you can see, by the time this thing takes a trip around the world it gets much more expensive than the Crest. Also , with the Crest i can run 10 engines with one receiver, if i change the frequency it gives me another 90. The new RCS can only run 3 engines.

Heinz

[TonyWalsham]

Hi Tony,

Maybe your RCS is cheaper in Australia, but if i get it , i have to get it from the US....they get it from Australian. I am in Canada. As you can see, by the time this thing takes a trip around the world it gets much more expensive than the Crest. Also , with the Crest i can run 10 engines with one receiver, if i change the frequency it gives me another 90. The new RCS can only run 3 engines.

Heinz

Heinz. 

The RCS can control an unlimited number of same frequency locos from the one TX-24 handpiece. 
Yes it can run three trains separately and independently at precisely the same time.
Whilst I know you can theoretically run up to 100 engines with the Crest TE on board, have you actually operated more than 3 at the same time on the same track without crashing them?

As to pricing.
Being in Canada you can order the RCS brand direct from me if you wish or any Canadian dealer who cares to get it in for you.

BTW, I do make other types of R/C ESC's that when combined with (very) low cost 2 channel R/C like those used for R/C cars and boats, permits an overall cost quite a bit less than the Crest system.  Just like the RCS brand, the EVO brand is available direct from Australia or through any Canadian dealer that cares to order it for you.

 

[J Silverman]

A reply to the first post...

 I purchased a pair of Aristo Trackside receivers back when I was running track power. When switching to battery, I really did not want to pay any more than I had to, so I removed the receivers from their cases and fixed them up in two boxcars with battery packs. Yes, they are bulky, but they are reliable, have a good range, and did not cost me additionally.

[heinzm57]

These are the prices for the most common R/Cs

 

                           Transmitter       Receiver

Airwire                     $219               $149           $368

RCS                         $80                $176           $256

Crest                       $60.74            $95.54         $156.28

These are $US

Now....i am not saying that either one or the other is the best, i just stating a fact that Crest is the cheapest of the most well known ones. And i am not talking about some jerry-rigged affair like toy R/C for cars or boats. I have tried them, and they wont handle the Amps i use.

 

[TonyWalsham]

These are the prices for the most common R/Cs

 

                           Transmitter       Receiver

Airwire                     $219               $149           $368

RCS                         $80                $176           $256

Crest                       $60.74            $95.54         $156.28

These are $US

Now....i am not saying that either one or the other is the best, i just stating a fact that Crest is the cheapest of the most well known ones. And i am not talking about some jerry-rigged affair like toy R/C for cars or boats. I have tried them, and they wont handle the Amps i use.

 

Now Now Heinz.  Be fair.
You are comparing the MSRP of both AirWire and RCS with the street price of Crest.
Just so other readers can compare costs accurately perhaps they would like to know the MSRP of the Crest TX is US$91 and the Crest 75 Mhz RX is US$ 144.  Gives a total of US$235.

Also, The comparable RCS is US$80 for the TX-24 which has unlimited engine capability and the BASIC-2 on board is US$130. A total of US$210. 
If you wanted the BASIC-3 the total would be US$230.  Still $5 under the cheapest TE.

Just like Crest, you can also buy RCS at discounted prices.  Just ask your local dealer.

As to the jibe about using car type R/C.  You have obviously never used the EVO series I make.  They are designed specifically for LS Trains and have the same smooth reliable performance of the RCS systems.  The reason is they use the same controller hardware. 
Plus, they are guaranteed "Glitch Free".
Cost wise they are well below any other R/C systems.
Take a Futaba or Hi-Tec 2 stick R/C US$40 and combine it with an EVO-2B for US$80 and you have a Total of US$120.
Way way cheaper than Crest or any of the others. 
Even the EVO-3B would be only US$140.

 

[heinzm57]

Tony,

Take a Futaba or Hi-Tec 2 stick R/C US$40 and combine it with an EVO-2B for US$80 and you have a Total of US$120.

Why do i have to get into an argument with anyone here.I have tried this "Futaba thing". You get fast and stop. I have tried the heaviest receiver i could get and it would not handle 14.4 V and 3 AMPs. The engine will go for 3 seconds and than stop because the receiver is overheating.

 And as far as "Streetprice "goes:   All prices i have given you are Mailorder Prices. The price for the RCS i got from Don Sweet .

End of conversation.

 

[calenelson]

Tony,

Take a Futaba or Hi-Tec 2 stick R/C US$40 and combine it with an EVO-2B for US$80 and you have a Total of US$120. 

 Yep I did it a few years ago, (think it cost me $113 then) to get started in RC...Worked like a champ with my Bachmann Dizzie, an 18v Drill Battery all inside an AMS Stock Car...Never Overheated, Never a glitch. period.

Why do i have to get into an argument with anyone here.I have tried this "Futaba thing". You get fast and stop. I have tried the heaviest receiver i could get and it would not handle 14.4 V and 3 AMPs. The engine will go for 3 seconds and than stop because the receiver is overheating. 

I'm not sure anyone is arguing, but you may have missed the point?..

the receiver is by Futaba, but the "Throttle-EVO2B" Tony mentioned is the Action-RC EVO (an RCS Brand).  You install it between the receiver and the motor/lights/sound....

it's what I mentioned above, It is "Glitch Free" -no "get fast and stop" and no problems with any load I could apply, even with my 18v setup!

 And as far as "Streetprice "goes:   All prices i have given you are Mailorder Prices. The price for the RCS i got from Don Sweet .

I can't help with pricing, I buy all of my gear from Dave Goodson on the Left Coast! 

End of conversation.

Cale

Link to RCS "Evo" and Drill Battery Post from MLS Archives 

[mabry]

 By going to battery operation rather than rail power, aren't you just trading one PITA for another?  I mean batteries have limited power, often require a fixed trailing battery car, and are not usually charged up when you need them.

 I am saying this, not to stir up a religious war in this thread, but to point out that both systems have their cons as well as pros.  It sounds like you have already invested time, effort and $ into one system.  Be sure you want to drop all that before going the other route.

[calenelson]

 By going to battery operation rather than rail power, aren't you just trading one PITA for another?  I mean batteries have limited power, often require a fixed trailing battery car, and are not usually charged up when you need them.

 

This has not been the case for me thus far.  I usually run my engines as long as I wish and then plug into charge when ready to go in for the day...I use a MAHA smart charger that will not over-charge the batteries if I forget to unplug.  All of my installs thus far (minus my first ever-no longer inservice, using parts elsewhere) do not utilize trail cars.  I can normally get 4+ hours of running with my 10 Wheeler, and 6+ with my Mack Switcher...of course in that amount to time the Kids usually finish their playing outside and are ready to go back in the house.  With the onboard installs (in tender or cab) you "can" add a trail car to extend times, if it became necessary...I have not reached that point-yet. 

 I am saying this, not to stir up a religious war in this thread, but to point out that both systems have their cons as well as pros.  It sounds like you have already invested time, effort and $ into one system.  Be sure you want to drop all that before going the other route.

I'm sure ,like anything, they both have pros and cons. (the only con I can think of for battery power is the down-time you have during installs...that said, I have 3 little kids which take a great deal of time and $, so sometimes the Trains have to wait).  When I began in LS Trains...I weighed both, and decided on No Track Power only Battery RC.  I have been Really Pleased with my choice for battery power!  It has worked well for me.  Like track power, the initial investment can be steep (depending on how deep you delve) but it really worked out to be about the same as a real nice Bridgeworks transformer...minus any jumpers, good joints, block wiring and clean track.

I have only bought "used track" the money I saved there helped fund the rc aspect of my "choice"...and that is what it really all boils down to...what you want-your choice...It's "your' RR!- so in the end, I'd again encourage everyone to study for yourself...ask lot's of questions, then dip your toe into whatever pool you choose....

 

cale 

[Anonymous]

Well, All ya'll can gripe and moan!

I would go with Dave Goodson RCS. Why, man knows more than I, ALOT more! Yeah I have brass track and a NCE system. POC system is all it is!!! Yeah I wanted to have a open house where the trains could run on computer but rather have a better RCS system to do the job right the 1st time! I have backed Tony & Daves products because they DO work.

NOTE for small minded people: I am not paid by RCS/Tony/Dave, just a customer!

[mabry]

 By going to battery operation rather than rail power, aren't you just trading one PITA for another?  I mean batteries have limited power, often require a fixed trailing battery car, and are not usually charged up when you need them.

 

This has not been the case for me thus far.  I usually run my engines as long as I wish and then plug into charge when ready to go in for the day...I use a MAHA smart charger that will not over-charge the batteries if I forget to unplug.  All of my installs thus far (minus my first ever-no longer inservice, using parts elsewhere) do not utilize trail cars.  I can normally get 4+ hours of running with my 10 Wheeler, and 6+ with my Mack Switcher...

 

Interesting.  I haven't heard folks say they can get those times without a trail car.  Do you have grades on your layout.  I have a 3.8% grade.  If I thought I could put a battery inside the engine and be able to run 4+ hours every time, that might sway me.  

 What kind of batteries do you use?  

 Mark

[calenelson]

Yes, I always get at least 4+ hours with the Annie (RCS Elite and Soundtraxx) and the 14.4v NiCads supplied by Dave Goodson and NWRCS installed in tender...the first run of the Mack with 9.6v NiMH was over 10 hours...nope not kidding either, nobody here could believe it...seemed like it was the Pink Bunny-still going... just put it down on the tracks and turned it on...it ran all morning, afternoon into the dark of the evening...nowadays it can usually go for about 6+ hours

Yep, I have grades, no idea how severe but steep enough to make me recently rebuild a section...see my build log here My entire loop is runs up and down a grade...

I have 4 engines awaiting Batteries and RC...LGB Diesel Switcher, Climax, American, and ST Porter...

 

cale 

[TonyWalsham]

Mark.

Although I make the RCS equipment I have no vested interest in batteries.  Neither in type nor brand.
I personally choose good quality Sub C NiCd batteries.
I have been doing this for over 20 years and that experience has taught me which works and which works well.
Good quality Sub C NiCd's may be more expensive than cheapo batteries sold to kids for the R/C cars.  They do not last as long as better quality equivalents. Or give such sustained long run times.

It is virtually impossible to get drill batteries to fit inside all but the largest locos.  So which types to go for will depend on the make and size of the locos you would convert to battery R/C.

[mgilger]

Mark

By the way, good name.

The Sub C's that come in a lot of the drill packs fit well into most cars if they are removed from the plastic cases. The one's that I buy are from Harbor Freight and I get the 18volt vareity on sale for around $10 for the pack. Put two in parallel for more amperage. The one's that I buy only have 3 screws in the case that need to be removed. Works like a champ.

Regards,

Mark

 

[EMPIRE II LINE]

Interesting subject here everybody......RC with BATTERY POWER

That said.....I would like to know THIS.....And I do not want to start any arguments that might cause this thread to be locked. It's just that I do not know how it could be feasibly accomplished to use BATTERY POWER to run what I choose to model.....

My Question... 

Does/has anyone, in the battery arena, tried to design/come up with a way to "say" run a consist of 18 of Charlie Ro's, USA Trains, streamlined passenger cars, strait from the factory, lit up with batteries???? Behind a set of ABBA F-3's with a 2-K-2 Phoenix installed also, ALL.......BATTERY POWERED????

Please let me know if this is possible, what I mean here "is" are you doing it right now?? My question is, not how would you suggest that it be done, but is anyone out there doing it right now....Powering a consist as I've described with RC and BATTERIES????  

I do not run in the SHORT TRAIN, Narrow Gauge Arena, I have chosen, to design and run, what I grew up with, and saw running across "Main Line America", say roughly through to the very early 60's.

I have chosen predominantly the Great Northern RR to model, the era of the "Streamliners" thru the transition years from steam to early diesel power, 1947/48 to say 1961/62. 

LONG Streamlined Passenger Trains, 12 to 18 cars or more, multi engined, all lit up at night.....what a beautiful sight......

Mallets, with long drags of Freight, 30 to 50 cars long.....IMPRESSIVE, to say the least....

Any one doing it???

Yes it's already been suggested, change the car lighting to LED's...."Ever disassemble one of those cars??"     I think....let's not think about that......

Byron   

[imrnjr]

Byron -- I think Marty Cozad may be doing what your asking about.  He does run very long trains but I'm not familiar with the passenger cars (if any) that he uses.

Mark 

[EMPIRE II LINE]

Byron -- I think Marty Cozad may be doing what your asking about.  He does run very long trains but I'm not familiar with the passenger cars (if any) that he uses.

Mark 

Haven't gotten back to him yet....

Byron......Do intend to though.