Whipped

[Fred Bear]

Nope, no diagram, wrong pic loaded to photobucket and the one I needed won't do it! Going to bed, I'll catch everyone here in 2 weeks. Thanks again, Jake

[lionelsoni]

I can't see the diagram.  Is there one?

[Fred Bear]

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[Fred Bear]

Well crap Bob, now I'll have to wait 2 weeks to see if it's going to work. Like I said, I cannot work off words too well, I need a pictures or a diagram or drawing showing actual components like those crude babies I turn out! Thanks for everyone's help, and Bob, thanks for your patience with me.

[lionelsoni]

I'll say it again, "...the U terminal...should connect to all the outside rails except the control rails."

[Fred Bear]

Shucks, what if that rail beside your control rail is hooked to nothing????? Now I'm starting to see the problem and maybe the fix. Jake

[eZAK]

Jake,

Your control rail is activated by the directly opposite outside rail not necessarily from the rails fore and aft.

Click here for an IR;

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Findex.cfm

MTH also makes one.

[Fred Bear]

Well well well, now I see what I've done. I'll have to reverse this today before I leave tomorrow! Thanks Bob, Jake

PS. is this the problem would you guess? Why does it still work when connecting a screw driver across the gap?

[lionelsoni]

Jake, you've got the U terminal connected to the insulated control rails.  It should connect to all the outside rails except the control rails.  You've got the outer switch-machine terminals connected to the outside rails of the slipswitch.  The outer terminals should connect to the control rails.  The outside rails of the slipswitch should connect to the outside rails of the tracks leading to the slipswitch (but not to the control rails).

[Fred Bear]

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[Fred Bear]

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[Fred Bear]

I should have tried the Lionel 1666 on the thing with a tender, and I might just do that yet. Small bit of rewire to another output is all I need to do there, Might have to go try that one now, I'll report back. Jake

[chuck]

Check the wheel sets on the loco's in question.  Do any of them have traction tires or other odd arrangement of the wheel sets?  This could include isoaltion style (aka non conductive) axles.

[Fred Bear]

I'm not sure how the photo cells work but they are easy to wire. Two cells are placed before your crossing, two after, they read by light sensitivity.  When the train goes over them, they complete the circuit through the board, sending electricity to your crossing gate, etc. etc. There is a ground wire as well as four leads going to the photo cells, so I'm going to guess this could all be done, but again, I'm so darned close to making this all go. Unless maybe the switch itself is not conducive to the MTH Shay or the MTH Blue Comet. I don't know. I have not tried to wire without all capacitor, resistor, and diode yet to try the train that way, although I might give that a shot before I get out of dodge.If THAT works, then I'll by a flurry of activity when I get back trying to make this all go. Jake

[Fred Bear]

I'm wondering why when I bridge my track gap with the tip of a screw driver it works so nicely, but when the engines cross, it's incomplete? The MTH Climax worked it OK, I'm guessing I still have some little glitch somewhere in my wiring etc, I"m still going to post pics of all of this and a diagram. When I return on the 24th, I"ll try & iron this out and get these silly axx tabs of metal off my track, although they do work nicely and I'm kinda proud of the fix.  Jake

[chuck]

Seems like isolated blocks of track worked better on tubular, and I know that's just plain silly. Metal is metal to a point.

The main difference is the way the outside rails are isolated on Atlas or most solid rail track.  Tubular ties both outside rails together through the metal ties.  Solid rail has a natural tendency to make isolation rails.  No need to make special track sections, but you still need to monitor placement of insulating track joiners. 

[Fred Bear]

I"m going to try & take pics later plus a digram, leaving for Colorado however on Tues, so I might have to wait until I return, Thanks much, Jake

[lionelsoni]

If it acts just like a contact closure and you use it to make the connections to ground that the control rails would make, then the capacitive-discharge circuit should protect the switch-machine coils.  But I don't know any particulars of the photocell gadget nor how you would be wiring it up; so I can't say.

I'd still like to see a picture or diagram of the slipswitch and its wiring.

[Fred Bear]

Me neither Bob, but it just doesn't want to work for some reason. Are you on Atlas track or tubular? Seems like isolated blocks of track worked better on tubular, and I know that's just plain silly. Metal is metal to a point.

Will the Circuitron thing I have throw the switch? Seems like with the photo cells, it would burn up the switches as the current stays steady until the photo cells are uncovered. Jake

[lionelsoni]

Your idea is fine, Jake.  I still don't understand why the control rails don't work by themselves, however.  I have them all over my layout with no problems.

[Fred Bear]

Is an IR detector a Circuitron thing? With the photo cells that go into the track? Jake

[eZAK]

Jake,

Have you thought of using an IR detector to throw the switches?

[Fred Bear]

What do you think of this remedy? Jake

[lionelsoni]

No.  Subsequent cars will just continue to discharge the capacitor before it can recharge.

[Fred Bear]

What I've made is a small V shaped piece of metal from very thin stock, actually it's a feeler gauge blade from a wrecked set of guages, it's paper thin, but retains it's spring quality, It's soldered to one end of the track near the " cut " in the control rail, and as a train runs over it, it bends down and makes a very positive contact with the switch. Problem solved! Jake

PS. I hope the subsequent cars running over it will not place some weird charge into the switch. Can anyone see a problem with that?

[Fred Bear]

I've come up with an idea for tripping the swith. I may make a small piece that will go on to the side of the track that will contact the metal and get a good connection to the switch to make that electrical connection happen to the switch. If the switch gets thrown completely, then they will work. It appears as if the switch does not get tossed all the way around sometimes. I"m leaving to fly fish Colorado with my wife for 2 weeks on Tuesday, I probably won't get a chance to work on it until I return. I also want to try conventional locomotives to see what they do. Thanks again for all the help, Jake

[chuck]

Does the switch behave when you roll a diecast truck through it, like on a box car?  Does it work with a three axle illuminated passenger car (i.e. one with a pickup roller)?  If the switch is functioning properly under these circumstances the issue(s) are probably with the locomotives and how they interact with the switch and the circuit.  There isn't a lot of room on a double slip to accomodate all of the track pieces necessary for three rail (I'm amazed that these were even made).  The Ross version has extra wiring points and allows use of relays to energize or de-energize portion of the switch to allow for differences in distance between pick up rollers. 

[lionelsoni]

Yes.  There should be no danger in operating the coils for the few seconds that that would involve.

[Fred Bear]

I'll diagram it all out, and take some photos as well and post them and see what can go from there.

You asked if it worked without the garbage all hooked up, but I was afraid to try & run the trains across that mess for fear of burning up the switches. Would it be OK to run them across it a few times, just the Engine and tender? ? Jake