Grayson
"Lionel trains are the standard of the world" - Jousha Lionel Cowen
Check you library for a copy of Peter Riddle's book, Wiring Your Lionel Layout, Volume 1. It is well illustarted and explains basic toy train electrcity.
Your basic ideas are correct but some of your descriptions/terminology could cause problems down the road. The "U" terminals on the ZW are "common" and these are the return path for electric current. This side of the circuit goes to the outside rails of the lockon. The A,B,C,D terminals on the ZW are the "hot" side and these are used to feed the center rail.
I would strongly suggest color coding to avoid problems and make sure you wire in some fast acting fuses or breakers between the transformer and the tracks. The ZW's thermal breaker will usually not trip immediately on short circuit like a derailment can cause. Modern electonics are not so forgiving of this type of incident.
"Blocks" were used in conventional control to allow for multiple train control. TMCC accomplishes this with digital command signals. The concept of a block has been morphed into a "Power District". You assign a power supply to a specific section of track. There are fiber pins that are inserted in the center rail to isolate one block from another. The idea is that you try to ballance the power load on the tracks to match what is really required in a given track block. This is close to what a real electric railroad would do, aka multiple feeds, multiple supplies.
I think the no. 1 clip goes to the inside rail (hot) and the no. 2 wire goes to the outside rails (common or ground). You should have feeders after every switch and every 4 - 6 feet.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Chuck,
What fuses or breakers do you recommend?
You only use insulating pins when you want to break a section of track for power by a seperate transformer feed. You don't want to tie two power supplies together.
You say you have two main lines. I will assume for the sake of example that these are totally seperate and you want to run each loop off of a seperate feed. No pins necessary. Now, lets say you want to connect the two loops by a pair of switches to make a cross over. You need to insert an isolating pin in the section of track between the two switches to keep the power sources seperate.
Under pure TMCC you COULD have everything running off of a single tap and no isolation pins as the track is normally at a fixed voltage. So long as your trains don't pull more current than a single tap can handle (about 180 watts), there won't be a problem. Some command control enthusiasts will stick one massive power supply with 300-400 watts output and run that to the track (using multiple drops). This is OK so long as nothing goes wrong. 300-400 watts translates to 15-20 amps and that can cause a derailment to arc weld parts to the track. I prefer multiple lower power sources with isolation pins to break the track down into power districts. This is covered in the main TMCC manual (the large format book) supplied with the Command Base/CAB-1 set. You can also download it from www.lionel.com, customer service/owners manuals.
Ok, thanks Chuck, I think I got this cleared up, but let me say it again to make sure. The only place I need insulting blocks is between my crossovers, and only one feed per mainline, right? And would putting that insulating pin in that track between the switches make it so I can hook up tpc's to both mains to run non command engines on either main?
Grayson,
I am doing the wiring on my layout (when she allows me), anyway, while I fully intend to do Lionel Legacy only, I am wiring in the "Star" fashion suggested by MTH and DCS. What I have done is to have feeds drop every 6 connections (track joints). from there, I run the wire to a breaker block (I am using Cole Hearsy). I have cut the center rail between feed sections so that if a short does occur, I can quickly identify the section and get back to running trains. While the bus wire system will certainly work with TMCC, and perhaps will work with DCS (I think Roy's club did this), MTH does suggest the "Star Method". I am leaving the outer rails (common) as uncut to allow for the TMCC signal. I would suggest researching the OGR forum site as it has a specific thread on command control. Many useful ideas, such as having "earth ground" wires between layers and connected to metal bridges, etc. that will affect the TMCC signal. Another good source is the book by Kalmbach called "Command Control".
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
So Dennis, you are using bus wires, tapping in and giving feeders to the track every 6 or so track sections, both hot and common feeders, and making a cut in the center rail in bewtween power "blocks", but not on the outside rail to get tmcc connection?
No Bus for tracks, I am using star wiring. Each pair (power/common) go from fuse block for power, stud for common in a matched pair to each section. I cut the center rail between sections, but do not cut outer rail between sections. I will be using Bus wiring for the accessories/lighting. For my yard and spur lines, I am putting a bank of SPST switches in place that will isolate center rails so that I can park trains while still running others.
Here is an example so i can see if i'm right, the :'s simulate a insulated power district in the track every 5-10 track sections. The three lines represent the three rails. The /\ represent lockons. The oly thing that is missing is the lockons connecting to the feeder wires from the bus wires. Is this correct? Also, there is no ties in place :)
__________________________________________________________________________
________:_________________:_______________________:________________________
______/\_______________/\______________________/\_____________/\________
Yea, I know its weird, but its the only thing that I could create quick.
TMCC doesn't care if you have insulating pins in any of the rails. It uses a radio signal that can be inducted/jumped from track section to track section.
DCS prefers ballanced pairs of wires for proper signal propogation. The easiest way to do this is with "star" patterned wiring.
Drops have nothing to do with insulating pins other than you need one trop per insulated block/power district. If you have more than one drop per section it doesn't matter, just make sure the drops ALL go back to the same power supply
As confused as i am zeke? (I hope you mean the wiring and such, not my picture )
no i understood your picture. I dont understand the whole wiring from the transformer on down the line. so i am just gonna get some books.i think that will work best for me.
zeke...like picturess.....da
So anybody that knows will please tell me if running two bus wires, one hot and one ground, and tapping into them, and hooking up a lockon to a track section that part of 10 track sections that are islolated by inserting a fibre pin on each of power district ends, and everything will work fine? There is nothing wrong with this, right? Nothing going to happen to my tmcc?
And what kind of breaker should I use, and were should I put it?
Grayson, The idea of "Star wiring" is only in case you ever want to run DCS. With regard to just using Bus lines with TMCC, that is no problem. I would not use lockons though. I would tend to solder to the rails. You can solder a spade connector and wedge it into the underside of the track.
By far, the easiest method is to go with bus wiring and TMCC. While it is certainly possible to power your switches with track power, I am sure most will tell you that you are better off with separate wiring for the switches.
Another item, since TMCC is usually run at 18V, it is better to power your accessories from a separate power source as most accessories are meant to run on 12-14Volts. Also, lights that are rated for 18Volts will last much longer if only powered to 14 Volts. You can use a common from both transormers as long as they are in phase.
Please follow this link to download the TMCC manual:
http://www.lionel.com/products/productnavigator/InstructionManuals/71-2911-250.pdf
Then return to pages 20 and 21
Dennis,
Thanks for explanation. Thats what you can always expect from Georgia and the South, good hospitality, in this case helping me out with my layout's wiring. And, I already was planning on powering the accessories using a seperate transformer. One small k-line for all lighted accessories, and a cw80 for all operating accessories, coal loader, horse corral, switches, ect. And, for an accessory bus wire, I do the same thing as track buses right? One hot and one ground? And what about these breakers and/or fuses? What should i use?
The accessories and the track can perfectly well share a common "ground" return, which means that you need only three wires for your bus, one connected to the outside rails, one connected to the center rail, and one for the accessories. The other accessory connection goes to the common return.
The accessory voltage does not need to be in phase with the track voltage. In fact, if it is out of phase, the common return becomes a "neutral" in which the return currents cancel to some extent, reducing the voltage drop on that bus wire.
You can force male Faston connectors as well as spade lugs into the bottoms of tubular rails. The most reliable connection is solder.
Bob Nelson
Is this a PW ZW or a modern ZW? If it's PW, you can get cables with in line uses that can hold quick blow fuses. I'm looking for qucik blow breakers suitable for toy train use.
http://www.scottsodds-n-ends.com/products.htm
Is there anything from radio shack that can be used as a toy train quick blow breaker?
How does a tvs work? How do you connect it? Do I have to have one in every power district?
How would you add power districts with fastrack since there are no insulated pins?
You use a dremel tool cut off wheel to slice the track. If you flip a piec if FastTrack over, you will see the tabs that hold the "rail" to the roadbed are easily accesible. I you need to "repair" an isolated section of track, just solder a jumper wire from one of the tabs on one side of the cut to a tab on the otehr side. This will work for center rail as well as an outer rail. Lionel makes special section of FastTrack without the bridge plates on the bottom for making section of insulated track for control of accessories.
You can disassemble a rail piece by bending down the tabs and pulling the rail and then removing the pins at the end of the track. Since the pins mate with the nect section, you have to do this to two pieces of track. I've found it much easier to slice the track with the cutoff wheel.
Grayson, you have received some good advice from everyone above. Sometimes, information is easier to grasp when you can "see it". TM video has made a DVD called "Building an O Gauge Layout". I got mine from the Oldies DVD site and it was $12.99. It is available from many other retailers for about $19.00. It is well worth it as it has lots of usefull information. The main part of the video is using Fastrack, but Elliot Feinberg does a layout example with Tubular track (for guys like Frank 53). Bob Nelson is very knowledgeable in the electrical set up, as are Roy and some others. They know tricks that are not in the books. Bob's recommendation for a TVS is a good one. As for fast blow circuit breakers, I got mine from my Dad's business and he purchased them from Cole Hearse.
Take care,
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