Thanks Bob for the information on the bus wiring.
Now to see if I can figure out how to wire TMCC for switches, sidings, uncoupler tracks and an Atlas Turn Table. I don't have any TMCC locomotives, but might in the future. For now I just want to simplify the wiring and avid building a control panel.
Either way works. Connecting both ends makes the wire much more effective, since the point farthest away electrically from the transformer is only half as far and effectively fed from two wires in parallel; so any voltage drop is reduced by a factor of 4.
The British call this a "ring main" and use it in their house wiring; but it is forbidden here for safety reasons. Those reasons don't apply for the toy-train situation, however; so wire away!
Bob Nelson
I have a question on bus wiring. In Peter Riddle's book, Wiring Your Lionel Layout, Volume 1, on page 33, Fig 6-1, he shows the ground wire going from the transformer making a loop similar to the track loop and returning to the transformer. Thus making a complete circuit. This makes sense to me but I believe I have seen other books that just show the ground just extending down the middle of the table with only one end connected to the transformer.
Which is correct? Does it make any difference other than the amount of wire?
I had to slow down my train work for a while but am back at it now. Y'all have helped me in the past and I thank you for that.
George
Your library has a lousy collection of books re toy trains (I just checked the on-line catalog).
This is what you are looking for:
http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Greenberg's_Wiring_Your_Lionel_Layout-ISBN_9780897782067.html?isrc=b-search
Since this is a thread on wiring i think i will ask this.
I just would like to know the name of a "wiring for dummies" book. I Just gonna be running a zw. I know there has to be a good picture book for ppl like me. My library didnt have anything on wiring. I hope this will be simple. right now i have all manual switches, dont have any accesories yet, but looking. Still havent figured out how i want to do my layout. I am building almost all my own buildings. just looking for some books to read with pictures...
thanks
Grayson, you have received some good advice from everyone above. Sometimes, information is easier to grasp when you can "see it". TM video has made a DVD called "Building an O Gauge Layout". I got mine from the Oldies DVD site and it was $12.99. It is available from many other retailers for about $19.00. It is well worth it as it has lots of usefull information. The main part of the video is using Fastrack, but Elliot Feinberg does a layout example with Tubular track (for guys like Frank 53). Bob Nelson is very knowledgeable in the electrical set up, as are Roy and some others. They know tricks that are not in the books. Bob's recommendation for a TVS is a good one. As for fast blow circuit breakers, I got mine from my Dad's business and he purchased them from Cole Hearse.
Take care,
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
How would you add power districts with fastrack since there are no insulated pins?
You use a dremel tool cut off wheel to slice the track. If you flip a piec if FastTrack over, you will see the tabs that hold the "rail" to the roadbed are easily accesible. I you need to "repair" an isolated section of track, just solder a jumper wire from one of the tabs on one side of the cut to a tab on the otehr side. This will work for center rail as well as an outer rail. Lionel makes special section of FastTrack without the bridge plates on the bottom for making section of insulated track for control of accessories.
You can disassemble a rail piece by bending down the tabs and pulling the rail and then removing the pins at the end of the track. Since the pins mate with the nect section, you have to do this to two pieces of track. I've found it much easier to slice the track with the cutoff wheel.
"Lionel trains are the standard of the world" - Jousha Lionel Cowen
How does a tvs work? How do you connect it? Do I have to have one in every power district?
Is there anything from radio shack that can be used as a toy train quick blow breaker?
Is this a PW ZW or a modern ZW? If it's PW, you can get cables with in line uses that can hold quick blow fuses. I'm looking for qucik blow breakers suitable for toy train use.
http://www.scottsodds-n-ends.com/products.htm
The accessories and the track can perfectly well share a common "ground" return, which means that you need only three wires for your bus, one connected to the outside rails, one connected to the center rail, and one for the accessories. The other accessory connection goes to the common return.
The accessory voltage does not need to be in phase with the track voltage. In fact, if it is out of phase, the common return becomes a "neutral" in which the return currents cancel to some extent, reducing the voltage drop on that bus wire.
You can force male Faston connectors as well as spade lugs into the bottoms of tubular rails. The most reliable connection is solder.
Dennis,
Thanks for explanation. Thats what you can always expect from Georgia and the South, good hospitality, in this case helping me out with my layout's wiring. And, I already was planning on powering the accessories using a seperate transformer. One small k-line for all lighted accessories, and a cw80 for all operating accessories, coal loader, horse corral, switches, ect. And, for an accessory bus wire, I do the same thing as track buses right? One hot and one ground? And what about these breakers and/or fuses? What should i use?
Grayson
Please follow this link to download the TMCC manual:
http://www.lionel.com/products/productnavigator/InstructionManuals/71-2911-250.pdf
Then return to pages 20 and 21
Grayson, The idea of "Star wiring" is only in case you ever want to run DCS. With regard to just using Bus lines with TMCC, that is no problem. I would not use lockons though. I would tend to solder to the rails. You can solder a spade connector and wedge it into the underside of the track.
By far, the easiest method is to go with bus wiring and TMCC. While it is certainly possible to power your switches with track power, I am sure most will tell you that you are better off with separate wiring for the switches.
Another item, since TMCC is usually run at 18V, it is better to power your accessories from a separate power source as most accessories are meant to run on 12-14Volts. Also, lights that are rated for 18Volts will last much longer if only powered to 14 Volts. You can use a common from both transormers as long as they are in phase.
So anybody that knows will please tell me if running two bus wires, one hot and one ground, and tapping into them, and hooking up a lockon to a track section that part of 10 track sections that are islolated by inserting a fibre pin on each of power district ends, and everything will work fine? There is nothing wrong with this, right? Nothing going to happen to my tmcc?
And what kind of breaker should I use, and were should I put it?
no i understood your picture. I dont understand the whole wiring from the transformer on down the line. so i am just gonna get some books.i think that will work best for me.
zeke...like picturess.....da
As confused as i am zeke? (I hope you mean the wiring and such, not my picture )
TMCC doesn't care if you have insulating pins in any of the rails. It uses a radio signal that can be inducted/jumped from track section to track section.
DCS prefers ballanced pairs of wires for proper signal propogation. The easiest way to do this is with "star" patterned wiring.
Drops have nothing to do with insulating pins other than you need one trop per insulated block/power district. If you have more than one drop per section it doesn't matter, just make sure the drops ALL go back to the same power supply
Here is an example so i can see if i'm right, the :'s simulate a insulated power district in the track every 5-10 track sections. The three lines represent the three rails. The /\ represent lockons. The oly thing that is missing is the lockons connecting to the feeder wires from the bus wires. Is this correct? Also, there is no ties in place :)
__________________________________________________________________________
________:_________________:_______________________:________________________
______/\_______________/\______________________/\_____________/\________
Yea, I know its weird, but its the only thing that I could create quick.
No Bus for tracks, I am using star wiring. Each pair (power/common) go from fuse block for power, stud for common in a matched pair to each section. I cut the center rail between sections, but do not cut outer rail between sections. I will be using Bus wiring for the accessories/lighting. For my yard and spur lines, I am putting a bank of SPST switches in place that will isolate center rails so that I can park trains while still running others.
So Dennis, you are using bus wires, tapping in and giving feeders to the track every 6 or so track sections, both hot and common feeders, and making a cut in the center rail in bewtween power "blocks", but not on the outside rail to get tmcc connection?
Grayson,
I am doing the wiring on my layout (when she allows me), anyway, while I fully intend to do Lionel Legacy only, I am wiring in the "Star" fashion suggested by MTH and DCS. What I have done is to have feeds drop every 6 connections (track joints). from there, I run the wire to a breaker block (I am using Cole Hearsy). I have cut the center rail between feed sections so that if a short does occur, I can quickly identify the section and get back to running trains. While the bus wire system will certainly work with TMCC, and perhaps will work with DCS (I think Roy's club did this), MTH does suggest the "Star Method". I am leaving the outer rails (common) as uncut to allow for the TMCC signal. I would suggest researching the OGR forum site as it has a specific thread on command control. Many useful ideas, such as having "earth ground" wires between layers and connected to metal bridges, etc. that will affect the TMCC signal. Another good source is the book by Kalmbach called "Command Control".
Ok, thanks Chuck, I think I got this cleared up, but let me say it again to make sure. The only place I need insulting blocks is between my crossovers, and only one feed per mainline, right? And would putting that insulating pin in that track between the switches make it so I can hook up tpc's to both mains to run non command engines on either main?
You only use insulating pins when you want to break a section of track for power by a seperate transformer feed. You don't want to tie two power supplies together.
You say you have two main lines. I will assume for the sake of example that these are totally seperate and you want to run each loop off of a seperate feed. No pins necessary. Now, lets say you want to connect the two loops by a pair of switches to make a cross over. You need to insert an isolating pin in the section of track between the two switches to keep the power sources seperate.
Under pure TMCC you COULD have everything running off of a single tap and no isolation pins as the track is normally at a fixed voltage. So long as your trains don't pull more current than a single tap can handle (about 180 watts), there won't be a problem. Some command control enthusiasts will stick one massive power supply with 300-400 watts output and run that to the track (using multiple drops). This is OK so long as nothing goes wrong. 300-400 watts translates to 15-20 amps and that can cause a derailment to arc weld parts to the track. I prefer multiple lower power sources with isolation pins to break the track down into power districts. This is covered in the main TMCC manual (the large format book) supplied with the Command Base/CAB-1 set. You can also download it from www.lionel.com, customer service/owners manuals.
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