Compare the advantages and disadvantages of tubular track and fastrack.

[magicman710]

Zeke what happended last night? How did his kids react? Is he doing better today?

[Anonymous]

There is nothing wrong with FasTrack. Over the past 20 years of doing this, this is why I like FasTrack:

1) The switches are the same height as the track they are suppose to connect to! Finnaly, after 90+ years, Lionel actually got this right. Ever see O gauge track hooked up to 022 or 711 switches on an unlandscaped layout? The track is supposed to be smooth and level! Some morons screw the track down so hard on the first piece after the switch, that the switch rails start to pull out and then you got more problems.

so because "morons" screw the track down hard it means the track is no good? Maybe it's the guy with the screwdriver? 

2) The switches themseleves are enough to buy this system. LED laterns and switch bases- no voltage change in the bulb or burned out bulbs. LEDs stay the same brightness no matter if your at 5 volts or 20 volts. Snappy operation, TMCC equipped.

I'm not seeing where not having a switch bulb burn out is worth the price of a FasTrack switch, myself. Heck, I started using #22 switches that had sat in an attic for 40 years. Bulbs still worked.

3) Base radius of 36" vs 31". Don't think that extra 5" is easier on the engine and more realistic? Think again.

Imagine how much easier a 42" tubular curve is than a 36" FasTrack curve.

4) Surface area of all three rails. FasTrack rail tops are FLAT which gives your better coverage than the tiny "crest" of a tubular rail. As soon as I ran FasTrack the flickering in my passenger cars stopped.

Never noticed how "tiny" that crest was.

5) More oppourunties for more layouts (radii, 60" switches, etc.)

I admit I have no idea what an "oppourunty" is, but I do know that tubular comes in 31, 42, 54 and 72 with switches. That's a lot of layout flexibility is you ask me.

6) Stability. Every press down on O gauge in the middle of the two ties? Flimsy! Easy to twist! FasTrack is RIGID which adds incredible strenght to the entire system. Thats why there is a considerable difference in the way the trains run.

When I press down on a tubular rail between the ties, flimsy isn't the word that comes to mind.

7) Easier to line up- no warping of the track. It has to be a certain way. If you have to fight a track system to get it were you need to go then your doing something wrong.

I would spell "it has to be a certain way" l-a-c-k o-f f-l-e-x-i-b-i-l-t-y. FasTrack is completely unforgiving, while tubular has enough "give" to let you cheat if you have to.  

8) No dicking around with pins any more. No cut hands, insulating pins, change this pin change that pin, take this out, etc.

Real men pull those pins out with their teeth. How much "dicking around" does the pin really take? I cut my finger slicing a watermelon once. Should I give up watermelon?

9) Looks exceptional on a landscaped layout.

Looks like nice track on a plastic base on a landscaped or unlandscaped layout. It does look nice if you ground cover up to the track level as I have seen done, which covers up the "ballast" (chuckle). Personally, I think tubular can be made to look pretty dandy too. 

10) Better connections. 

I have no frame of reference regarding that one.

But while we're on the subject, I see there is no mention of the biggest knock on FasTrack which is N-O-I-S-E.

Also, it's lack of compatibility with track side accessories. How many post do we see asking how to cut up FasTrack to get an operating accessory to work with it? The most oft mentioned solution is to use a transition to tubular piece.

Much of my tubular campaign is tongue in cheek, but I personally do like the product better, both as a traditionalist and an operator. I can't get past the noise level and plastic base appearance to ever seriously consider using it. 

 

Frank you are da man I am with you 100% and im a new guy. I will never buy the "cheater track" as its called at my train shop here in town. They have a layout of it and its so loud. cant hear the whistle on the tender as clear as tube track. I just cant seem to understand why ppl want to run beautiful post war steamers on fake plastic track....thats my story and im sticking to it.

 

zeke says" go tubular dude"

[Frank53]

Smoothly? I guess that depends. I would guess that trains run "more smoothly" through fasttrack switches. I have one tubular switch that I would describe as "not smooth" that I am replacing. Other than that, they do run "smoothly" but I would think they run more smoothly through FasTrack switches just by the design.

[magicman710]

Frank, do trains run smoothly through #22 switches? The only switches i have now is 027 manuals and my engines(not really cars) always bang into them, but they run smoothly through fastrack switches( I have 2 that i bought, along with some fastrack that came with a set).

[Frank53]

There is nothing wrong with FasTrack. Over the past 20 years of doing this, this is why I like FasTrack:

1) The switches are the same height as the track they are suppose to connect to! Finnaly, after 90+ years, Lionel actually got this right. Ever see O gauge track hooked up to 022 or 711 switches on an unlandscaped layout? The track is supposed to be smooth and level! Some morons screw the track down so hard on the first piece after the switch, that the switch rails start to pull out and then you got more problems.

so because "morons" screw the track down hard it means the track is no good? Maybe it's the guy with the screwdriver? 

2) The switches themseleves are enough to buy this system. LED laterns and switch bases- no voltage change in the bulb or burned out bulbs. LEDs stay the same brightness no matter if your at 5 volts or 20 volts. Snappy operation, TMCC equipped.

I'm not seeing where not having a switch bulb burn out is worth the price of a FasTrack switch, myself. Heck, I started using #22 switches that had sat in an attic for 40 years. Bulbs still worked.

3) Base radius of 36" vs 31". Don't think that extra 5" is easier on the engine and more realistic? Think again.

Imagine how much easier a 42" tubular curve is than a 36" FasTrack curve.

4) Surface area of all three rails. FasTrack rail tops are FLAT which gives your better coverage than the tiny "crest" of a tubular rail. As soon as I ran FasTrack the flickering in my passenger cars stopped.

Never noticed how "tiny" that crest was.

5) More oppourunties for more layouts (radii, 60" switches, etc.)

I admit I have no idea what an "oppourunty" is, but I do know that tubular comes in 31, 42, 54 and 72 with switches. That's a lot of layout flexibility is you ask me.

6) Stability. Every press down on O gauge in the middle of the two ties? Flimsy! Easy to twist! FasTrack is RIGID which adds incredible strenght to the entire system. Thats why there is a considerable difference in the way the trains run.

When I press down on a tubular rail between the ties, flimsy isn't the word that comes to mind.

7) Easier to line up- no warping of the track. It has to be a certain way. If you have to fight a track system to get it were you need to go then your doing something wrong.

I would spell "it has to be a certain way" l-a-c-k o-f f-l-e-x-i-b-i-l-t-y. FasTrack is completely unforgiving, while tubular has enough "give" to let you cheat if you have to.  

8) No dicking around with pins any more. No cut hands, insulating pins, change this pin change that pin, take this out, etc.

Real men pull those pins out with their teeth. How much "dicking around" does the pin really take? I cut my finger slicing a watermelon once. Should I give up watermelon?

9) Looks exceptional on a landscaped layout.

Looks like nice track on a plastic base on a landscaped or unlandscaped layout. It does look nice if you ground cover up to the track level as I have seen done, which covers up the "ballast" (chuckle). Personally, I think tubular can be made to look pretty dandy too. 

10) Better connections. 

I have no frame of reference regarding that one.

But while we're on the subject, I see there is no mention of the biggest knock on FasTrack which is N-O-I-S-E.

Also, it's lack of compatibility with track side accessories. How many post do we see asking how to cut up FasTrack to get an operating accessory to work with it? The most oft mentioned solution is to use a transition to tubular piece.

Much of my tubular campaign is tongue in cheek, but I personally do like the product better, both as a traditionalist and an operator. I can't get past the noise level and plastic base appearance to ever seriously consider using it. 

[Blueberryhill RR]

Any final recommendations? 

Recomendation? Why don't you chose, operate and buy what YOU want. 

A lot of people on this board are consistently looking for others to make decisions for them and I can not figure that out.

Personally, I think the people asking the questions are just trying to gather information, based on actual experiences. That is the purpose of the Forum. To relate knowledge, to one another. The final decision has always been in the hands of the person asking the questions.

Chuck

[LS1Heli]

Any final recommendations? 

Recomendation? Why don't you chose, operate and buy what YOU want. 

A lot of people on this board are consistently looking for others to make decisions for them and I can not figure that out.

[Anonymous]

   I wonder if there was this much trouble in 1957 when super-o came out.

[LS1Heli]

There is nothing wrong with FasTrack. Over the past 20 years of doing this, this is why I like FasTrack:

1) The switches are the same height as the track they are suppose to connect to! Finnaly, after 90+ years, Lionel actually got this right. Ever see O gauge track hooked up to 022 or 711 switches on an unlandscaped layout? The track is supposed to be smooth and level! Some morons screw the track down so hard on the first piece after the switch, that the switch rails start to pull out and then you got more problems. 

2) The switches themseleves are enough to buy this system. LED laterns and switch bases- no voltage change in the bulb or burned out bulbs. LEDs stay the same brightness no matter if your at 5 volts or 20 volts. Snappy operation, TMCC equipped.

3) Base radius of 36" vs 31". Don't think that extra 5" is easier on the engine and more realistic? Think again.

4) Surface area of all three rails. FasTrack rail tops are FLAT which gives your better coverage than the tiny "crest" of a tubular rail. As soon as I ran FasTrack the flickering in my passenger cars stopped.

5) More oppourunties for more layouts (radii, 60" switches, etc.)

6) Stability. Every press down on O gauge in the middle of the two ties? Flimsy! Easy to twist! FasTrack is RIGID which adds incredible strenght to the entire system. Thats why there is a considerable difference in the way the trains run.

7) Easier to line up- no warping of the track. It has to be a certain way. If you have to fight a track system to get it were you need to go then your doing something wrong.

8) No dicking around with pins any more. No cut hands, insulating pins, change this pin change that pin, take this out, etc.

9) Looks exceptional on a landscaped layout.

10) Better connections. 

[SchemerBob]

What is so bad with fastrack?! Is it the noise? Is it the plastic? What really makes people lile Frank hate fastrack so bad?

I'm split between making my layout with fastrack or tubular. The reason why i want to to go woth fastrack is the switches, theres a 100% non derailing function 2 ways, one, if the engine goes in one "backwards", and the other is because they run so smoothly through them.

Any final recommendations? 

Grayson

You could use FasTrack switches with O scale tubular track. The only problem here, of course, is that you have to have an "O Gauge Transition" piece after every switch, so the track can go from FasTrack back to tubular. This isn't really a problem, but it may be kind of difficult to do if your layout is going to be very complex.

[fifedog]

Grayson - The deciding factor for me is how big or elaborate the track plan you are using.  If you are talking simple loops and long tangents of track, the ridgid track like Fastrack or Realtrax is fine.  If you are doing a lot of over-under like my current layout, you need that wig-a-bility that tubular track grants.  (i.e. it is really forgiving when things are off a tick).

[magicman710]

The only real bad part to me is the price.

[magicman710]

What is so bad with fastrack?! Is it the noise? Is it the plastic? What really makes people lile Frank hate fastrack so bad?

I'm split between making my layout with fastrack or tubular. The reason why i want to to go woth fastrack is the switches, theres a 100% non derailing function 2 ways, one, if the engine goes in one "backwards", and the other is because they run so smoothly through them.

Any final recommendations? 

Grayson

[Brutus]

Bob - that's good for the ties, but if someone wanted to elevate the track a little like the fasttrack, then they could just cookie-cut out some thin foam sheets I think?  I don't know if this is something I'll do, but was just thinking.  OTOH - I probably will do the popsicle sticks, thanks for the tip! 

[lionelsoni]

Bobby, see my earlier post about O34, O42, O54, and O72, all in O27 profile.  Lots of curvature variety.

Jim, see my earlier post about Popsicle-stick crossties.  Cheap.

[Brutus]

Man, that rubber roadbed looks nice, but at $3 to $4 per section plus the cost of the track, you would be paying the same as Fastrack, right?  Except for the switches, which apparently just hang in the air with the black rubber system?  At this point I'm thinking I will just use my tubular track and make roadbed from thin sheets of foam.  I think I could make some templates pretty easily, maybe a wood base with sheet metal bent around it, and just punch them out of foam.  I'll think on this and if I do it, I'll post a thread.

[thor]

I started out with FasTrack because it came with the set and I liked the look and the way it snaps together and the switches (points/turnouts) work really well and I speak from experience of having had a lot of trouble with these in the past though admittedly with HO not O.

However after a year or two I started buying 027 partly because it was so much cheaper but also because the rail section looks better, I can't understand why they didn't make FasTrack with an I or T section and also because I really needed to get a loop onto a tabletop and FasTrack was just a bit too big.

My FastTrack has also started to break, specifically the grey plastic snap joiners, it doesnt seem to matter much because the pins hold it together anyway but it doesnt bode well for the switch mechanisms as they use the same plastic and have quite skimpy over center levers and pins beneath them which may well fatigue too and render the switch useless. Hasn't happened yet, maybe it won't but the potential is there.

On the other hand, I like the way my LEGO goes with the FasTrack. I cemented pieces of Lego - the flat grey plates - to the underside of my FastTrack so I can solidly attach working mechanisms to the track. Also I removed the center rail and replaced it with copper wire glued to the grey plastic studs that support the rails, it looks really good and unobtrusive. I built one test piece and its held up well so I may end up gradually replacing them all, beats even Super O in appearance!

The tubular rails sound better, they are quieter and yet the joins make the right clicketty clack sound, in fact the rails SOUND like real rails with the right wheel noise too. The lack of ties and ballast doesnt bother me at all and as for the so called 'sharp' edges of the metal rails well frankly I find FasTrack more painful to handle, its almost as bad as oyster shells. I actually try and avoid joining and disassembling it and get my kid to do it for me because I have rheumatism and my fingers just happen to lock up at the precise angle needed to grasp FasTrack's road bed and that really hurts! I can use channel locks on the tubular track...

If I had a permanent layout I would go with the FasTrack. It looks good, it works well, you can run wiring hidden beneath the molded roadbed and for me the LEGO 'connection' is useful as I like to build operating mechanisms from Lego Technic. The fun for me is not trying to duplicate reality so much as having a toy train system. If I ever get the room to make a permanent layout it'll have Lego crane, mines, conveyor belts and such in profusion. So FasTrack is great for that eventuality.

However, the reality is we have to put our trains on the floor and take them up again every day and the kid likes to ring the changes frequently, running new track configurations every hour or so and the rest of the household isnt all that careful about where they step either, so tubular works better because its robust, can take a lot of 'fudging' and you get more in a given space plus which its cheaper and easy to find used.

Last but not least, the plating on FasTrack doesnt seem to be as thick or as high quality as that on the tubular. We've had several sections get mysteriously rusty meaning we've pulled it out of its box and discovered it went rusty since the last session. Condensation? High humidity? I don't know what caused it unless when we cleaned the track we somehow left a thin film of mosture on it, I used alcohol perhaps thats why but it seemed to have corroded very aggressively, it looked like it was left outside for a few weeks.

[SchemerBob]

I don't know whether I have a real preference for FasTrack or O27. O27 is what I had first, what I recieved with my first train set. It worked for me for three years until I got some FasTrack. O27 rails are:

1. shaped like a real train rail
2. they are low-profile (more realistic)
3. brown ties rather than the black on O tubular
4. realistic clickety-clack sound in between the pieces
5. Easy to work with, you can design just about any layout you want

The downside:

1. Unless you're making a layout with wide curves such as O42 and O54, you'll have to stick with locomotives that can only negotiate O27 curves. O31 really seems to be the "universal" track radii in O scale, but as tubular track goes, only Standard O track provides it.
2. Like others have said, you'll probably ballast your track on a permanent layout, which, though I've never done it, requires a little time. You also have to add ties in between the ties on the track pieces if you want it to look a little more realistic.

I got FasTrack with the Polar Express set in 2005, and since then, I've been using it more regularly. IMHO, FasTrack is really the best. The pros:

1. Realistic track mounted on realistic roadbed
2. The track is already ballasted so you don't have to do anything (although you could, as stated in some of the photos above)
3. O gauge track. FasTrack has the same profile as O gauge tubular track, as well as the same radii curves (actually a little bigger, some of them): O36, O48, O60, O72; basically any O scale train made today can operate on it. FasTrack even has an O gauge "transition" piece, so you can switch back to O gauge tubular track.
4. No pins to remove. You can connect the track any way you want, and never have to remove any pins.
5. The track stays together much firmer than tubular track ever will, even when it's on the floor.

There are cons, of course.

1. The biggest one, FasTrack is PRETTY expensive. Straight sections 10" long cost about $4 apiece (actually, FasTrack's insulated track pieces are LESS expensive than regular!). Remote switches cost about $90 apiece. Manual switches cost only $35, but the downside there is that they are only available in O36 radius.
2. No "forcing" track together. Everything in FasTrack has to be exact. You have to know exactly how your layout is going to be made, or you'll run into trouble. Many times, I've tried to assemble a floor layout, and had a gap 1 inch apart that of course I couldn't fill. You can fix this with special track pieces, but you have to make sure you have them on hand. You cannot cut FasTrack pieces.
3. I have noticed that FasTrack can be loud, but I think this is mainly because of where you run the trains, and how fast you are actually running them. I have layout tables with homasote tops, and that deadens the sound a bit, but if you slow down your trains a bit, you'll notice a sound difference as well. Another thing is the equipment you run might just make a louder sound than others. You CAN find a way to fix "loud" FasTrack.

Well, that's my thoughts. I'm using FasTrack on my permanent layout, which is something like 8 feet by 17 or something like that. I like it so far, but tubular track isn't bad either. It just really matters on what you can afford and what you want to run. If you're running postwar, O or O27 tubular is probably the best, because that's what they were made to run on. If you want realism, then go with FasTrack. It's really up to you.

[Jumijo]

Jabaat, I have looked at the photos of your layout and I think it looks great. I like the autumn colored trees on your layout which inspired me to go with the autumn theme when I started my own. I am too using quite a bit of Fastrack and have thought about highlighting the ballast to enhance the molded gravel in the track but have'nt had the guts to just start painting experiments. Please explain your method, did you disasemble your track, did you use an airbrush, what color paint? Vlads Fastrack looks great and has made me want to attempt to improve mine. FasTrack does cost more but for me the built in ballast ,the smoothness of operation and the ease of putting a layout together makes it worth the money.

Rolo,

I did not disassemble my track. I painted it right where it lies. All I did was make a wash out of black craft acrylic paint and brush it on the ballast. The diffence is astounding. My finished ballast is a medium dark gray, but depending on where you live, it could be any color.

Jim 

[Anonymous]

zeke - If you can find a supplier near you , try JOHNSON'S RUBBER ROADBED.  You slide your tubular track into the molded slots, and BAM, you have ballasted track with ties molded in place.  Go for the grey color (out of production for the time being).

 

hey thanks gonna check it out right now!

[dwiemer]

Grayson,

     My favorite dealer is in NJ.  We do have some nice ones in the state, but as you say, they are around Atlanta.  Trainz is in Buford, and Memory Station have been spoken kindly about.  I have purchased from Trainz, but not much.  As to your sub structure on your layout.  I highly recommend getting extruded foam from the hardware store and putting it down over your plywood.  Even if you go with Tubular track, if it is screwed to the plywood, the noise will be on the loud side.  The extruded foam board comes in 4x8 sheets and down here, you can probably only get it in 1/2 or 3/4" widths.  I went with the 3/4" primarily because most of the bases for accessories are 3/4" thick.  You simply mark the footprint of the accessory, cut the section out of the foam and now your accessory looks like it's meant to be there and not just placed on a table.  What you do is get construction adhesive (will say that it works on foam) and just run a bead on the table and lay the foam on top.  The foam can be cut with a knife or a foam heat-cutting tool so that you can vary your landscape and add details.  You can screw the track down to the foam and it will stay, but without the noise transfere to the plywood...just make sure the screw does not go all the way down to the plywood.

Good Luck,

Dennis

[fifedog]

zeke - If you can find a supplier near you , try JOHNSON'S RUBBER ROADBED.  You slide your tubular track into the molded slots, and BAM, you have ballasted track with ties molded in place.  Go for the grey color (out of production for the time being).

[Rolo Tomasee]

Jabaat, I have looked at the photos of your layout and I think it looks great. I like the autumn colored trees on your layout which inspired me to go with the autumn theme when I started my own. I am too using quite a bit of Fastrack and have thought about highlighting the ballast to enhance the molded gravel in the track but have'nt had the guts to just start painting experiments. Please explain your method, did you disasemble your track, did you use an airbrush, what color paint? Vlads Fastrack looks great and has made me want to attempt to improve mine. FasTrack does cost more but for me the built in ballast ,the smoothness of operation and the ease of putting a layout together makes it worth the money.

[Jumijo]

 

Seeing this layout inspired me to try something I've always wanted to. Paint my FasTrack ballast. I experimented on a spare piece and liked it so much, I jumped right in and painted the layour track. It looks much better painted. I wish I had done it sooner. The paint brings out all the molded rock detail in the ballast, and the new color looks very realistic. I'll take photos soon.

My layout is no where as nice as this guy's, but it suits us. 

Jim 

[phillyreading]

I went with ties from Three R Plastics, 100 ties for $15.00 or 250 ties for $30.00 plus shipping of $7.50.  They have; O gauge, 027 and S gauge ties.  www.3rplastics.com

Lee F.

[Anonymous]

    I have always had o27 track and am just now collecting stuff to do a new layout in XX.  I agree with Frank53, LOL . for around the tree I cut 2 54" dia half circles out of 3/4 ply, beveled the edges, added extra ties and painted it. screwed the track to it and viola! fast trac. pop it in half and it stores easily.

[lionelsoni]

Zeke, I use "Popsicle" sticks, which you can buy in bulk at craft stores.  Saw them into 2-inch lengths, dunk them in paint, and arrange them under the rails when dry.  The glue in the ballast will hold them in place.

They are slightly narrower than the O27 ties, but not enough to be obvious; and they give the impression that all the ties are narrower and not quite so far out of scale.

[billbarman]

good idea anyway at the moment i have tubular track on my layout, i havent had too many derailmeant on switched, but when i didnt have a layout i used fastrack, its better for when they layout is on the floor but there were some problems, it seemed like the electricity would build up in one section of track and make everything run slowly, overall tubular is better.

[Brutus]

Cooties!!!

Hey - Not to throw gas on the fire, but if the point of Fastrack is to avoid the added expense of ballasting etc, then this is overkill!  But, seriously, that does look very good!  I think the great thing about FT is that you can put it anywhere and it is solidly connected.  It's great, but too expensive for me right now.  Check out the thread about a FT reverse loop -- this is much more expensive than a similar loop of tubular track - maybe more than 5 times the cost?!  I'm not doing 72 curves, but in 31 I bought enough used but VG track to do 2 of these the other day (except for switches) for like $40 delivered from Trainz.

[Frank53]

not mine - but that fellow is doing a very nice job, even if he is using FasTrack.