I will try to include all the details so that perhaps others won't fall to this or any other scheme. I had bid on a MTH Wabash Hudson. I was soon outbid and did not think anything more about it. A few days went by and I got a message from "EBAY" saying that I had a "Second Chance" for this item. It said that the person who outbid my was unable to complete the transaction and that by default, my high bid would be the amount to pay and that I would get the engine. This offer included the shipping and insurance as well. All I had to do was contact marketsalesman@hotmail.com and let him know that I am interested. I did and he soon responded with a message stating that he would like to complete this transaction but that it had to be done through eBay, and that he would contact them. I later recieved a very authentic looking message from eBay stating how to conduct the transaction. This message had all the things you would look for, security rating, link to original eBay listing, link to Western Union (he said he was out of the country for business and to send it to him). This message even had links to eBay's home page. Now, I may be somewhat nieve, but I did go into this with the thought that it was only $123.00, and that if worse came to worse, I was not put out that much and it was a lesson. After the money was sent, I got a message that the engine should be here Monday and to please let him know when it arrived.
Monday came and went, I sent him an email about it and no response. I did some searching through the eBay web site and finally found the area where you can check the authenticity of a Ebay message. By the way, it is spoof@ebay.com . They responded that the had not sent the messages. I also checked the original listing of the engine and followed the seller's information, he has 100% and the third item down was for the engine and the guy who outbid me saying he got it. Funny, the timing was such that the guy got the engine the same day the money was to arrive at the person selling me the engine.
Please forgive the long post, but I really want everyone to be aware and not fall victim to such a scam. I have had many Ebay transactions, but this is the first such experience. If you do use ebay, be aware.
One after thought, this guy was able to know my email and the max bid I had put on this engine. In some ways I feel Ebay is culpable in this. This is what made this seem real. I have never been able to get someone's email from ebay, they would just forward the message. Also, how did this guy know exactly my highest bid?
Good Luck,
dennis
TCA#09-63805
Dennis,
Sorry to read about your bad experience. Just for the record, and so others will know, eBay does not e-mail anything regarding transactions of this kind, no matter how official those messages look. They also don't e-mail you with problems about your paypal account or other such things. All of that is done through your My eBay account. If this ever happens to anyone else, contact eBay first and ask them if the deal is legit.
I hope you get satisfaction, Dennis. If you paid with a credit card, you might have some recourse.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Comment: First of all, thanks for your post.
I recently took advantage of a "second chance" offer. The seller told me that he had an identical item that he was willing to offer at my 'out-bid' price.
The difference was that this seller had immediately listed the item for my price under a new "Buy It Now" listing thus making it a clean transaction.
For me, the "Second Chance" worked just fine.
Again, thanks for keeping us alert to possible problems.
Thanks for posting your experience. I think (hope!) I would have backed out when the request came to transfer funds via Western Union. I might have been suckered in had it been the auction said USPS money orders only form the beginning. But many scam artists don't want to be committing mail fraud.
I have seen some very good phishing e-mails announcing PayPal charges for an auction I had allegedly won (usually an unlocked cell phone). I never click on links in e-mail for eBay or PayPal, but go to the sites via my bookmarks to check things out.
The only second chance offer I have ever seen came when I was the high bidder, but the reserve had not been met at the end of the auction (a low end brass engine). I had given up, deciding the reserve was higher than I was willing to bid. The seller offered to sell it to me for the high bid showing on the auction, and the transaction was completed successfully (and legitimately).
just my experience
Fred W
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience.
I have sucessfully bought a few items by second chance offers. The important thing is that as soon as you receive one, log out of your e-mail and log onto Ebay. If the offer is legitimate, it will be in your "my messages" folder. Also, if you click on "items I've lost" and find the item, you'll see a yellow band underneath it that says "you have received a second chance offer on this item".
If you do not see anything like that when you log onto Ebay, you can guess that someone is probably trying to scam you.
Situations like you describe are the exact reason why Ebay no longer displays bidder names on items above $200.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Chief,Thanks for the info! I used to visit Train City in Erie, PA when I was going to college (and for a few years after I returned to Pittsburgh). So I'm very familiar with ChooChoo Auctions (never bought or sold anything with them though).
TCA buy sell site suppose to be up the first week in May ???
Thats what they said when I visited last week during the open house ....
Thanks, for the info. What a scam.
Sorry for your loss.
laz57
I recently had a email asking for information on a new screen claiming that I was a non-paying bidder and that a dispute was opened.
I opened the email with full headers and forwarded it to spoof@ebay.com and had them look into it. If they determine it's fraud, they will have the origin IP and will be able to use that to hopefully complete thier tracking down on the offending ebayer.
REAL Ebay messages will be duplicated onto your messages console inside your account page on ebay.
Anyone with a little HTML or Java can whip up any webpage made to look like the real thing in a few minutes time complete with fake certificaces and links. Heck I can do it and I failed a college course on HTML due to math problems with tables and cells within webpages.
I either win or dont. I dont do second chances or respond to anything that I dont expect in email. Thank you for describing your story here and hopefully it will be another tool to teach those who are not as careful on ebay.
Sorry to hear that you had a bad ebay experiance! That is one of the reasons I don't deal with ebay, other reason is that people don't list things properly.
On another note hackers can make anything look legit! And like the guy safetyvalve mentioned be careful when replying to an email from the ebay site.
I use another site for train purchases that deals with trains only, I think it is Choo Choo Auctions and would recommend using that over ebay any day of the week.
Lee F.
A long time ago, I was warned about this second bidder scam from an eBay employee when I was trying to learn how to use eBay. I really look at the feedback and the time and amount they have been selling on eBay. I also try to check if they have been selling train related items. I have asked the sellers many questions, especially when the photo does not match the description.
Sorry that you got caught, Dennis.
I rarely buy anything on eBay. I think I have a total of 35 purchases in 7 years. I have shied away from purchasing locomotives. I just recently purchased six gondola covers for $12.00. I have purchased cars, especially NYC Pacemaker Scarlet and Gray Box Cars. My biggest purchase was for Garden RR Cars, and the seller was from Ohio and had a bricks and mortar store.
Maybe I'm just lucky, but so far I have had good success on eBay.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Thanks for the replies guys. I did check the guys feedback which was 100%, but alas, it was for the person actually selling the locomotive. This guy somehow used the whole link, and was also able to email me through ebay, but change the reply. I am not exactly sure how he did this, but it is obviously a flaw with ebay's system. I am thinking of emailing the original poster to let him know his account had been used.
Dennis
I too am sorry for your loss. I have never had a problem with ebay. Like other people have said, there is stuff you have to watch out for with every thing. I have done well with the 2nd chance offerings but it was re-listed like a totally new item. I did recieve a phony phishing email but I immediately recognized it as a hoax. I also don't buy if the pictures are not very clear.... description not accurate etc. People trying to sell stuff that they know nothing about are easily spotted if it is a piece of equipment you are familiar with.....
Of all the pieces I have.... over 90% was bought from ebay with 100% success.
Is there any recourse that you have either through ebay fraud dept or W.U.
genelbradleyjr, thanks. I doubt I will see the money again, but it really is not that much. For all the transactions I have done over the past few years, this is the first bad experience and fortunately, it happened at the end of my purchasing for the time being. I went into this last transaction with a bit of trepidation, and took a gamble. As for recourse, the state attorney general's office will be following up on this and perhaps local law enforcement. Western Union was very helpful and even has the guy's picture for law enforcement. Ebay's response so far was just to acknowledge that the emails were spoofs.
I was thinking, for me, this was a drop in the bucket for my train purchases, but for some, including young guys with a tight budget, this would be devastating. I will pursue this joker to the full extent, not for my money, but to stop what could be a very big scam artist. I have already forgiven him, but his actions need to stop.
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
Like everyone else, I'm sorry you got ripped off, but I appreciate the warning and I commend you on your attitude. It's hard to forgive when someone steals from you, but it's still the right thing to do.
Sorry you had a bad experience on Ebay, there are some scam artists there to be aware of.
I have been very lucky I have made over 125 Ebay purchases within the last say 2 years, Thousands of dollars mostly on hobby things, RC Nitro powered monster trucks and associated goodies, a ton of train goods, home theatre goods, kitchen appliances. I have never been burned or received products that where not as described.
Scams I have received, one thing to look for if you open one especially from PayPal if there is no LOCKED PADLOCK in the bottom right hand of your screen it is not PayPal. EBay ones as suggested check My Ebay see if the message is there, if you have doubts fire it off to spoof@ebay
Got a little news that may have a silver lining to this dark cloud. According to the Attorney General's office, because this was a dealing across national boundries, it falls under the juris diction of the US Secret Service. I have a good friend who is upper level Secret Service in D.C. He also has lots of military connections, so perhaps we can get some investigation to rattle this guys cage a little bit.
As for Ebay, I have done many transactions and had little to no problems. Never had anything not delivered. I have great feedback (100%), and hold many sellers in high regard. I have filled much of my roster with purchases using Ebay, but now, my house is full and I really don't need anything else. For the money that can be saved using ebay, I will instead to direct purchases as I have very little I could buy. I would still like a Wabash Hudson, but will wait.
I know that many here will continue to use Ebay, but my reason for posting this was a caution, like the line from Hill Street Blues, "Let's be carefull out there".
Always beware of second chance. Allways go to the original auction and email the seller to verify he sent you the email. To make it legelit the seller has to go through ebay to complete the transaction and the bogus seller knew this and sent the false ebay contact. Did you pay by credit card. You might be able to disput this with them and stop payment.
To make your account with ebay and paypal more safe, change your passwords once a month and you stop getting bogus ebay emails saying there is something wrong with your account. I also list these as spam with my email account and these go to the trash evertime and the real ebay emails come through.
riverrailfan wrote: To make your account with ebay and paypal more safe, change your passwords once a month and you stop getting bogus ebay emails saying there is something wrong with your account. I also list these as spam with my email account and these go to the trash evertime and the real ebay emails come through.
Very Strong Passwords are good to have.
In Security class we used a program to brute force break a lab computer's ISP Password of "Apple" it took only 6 seconds. Once in, we needed another 30 minutes to find all of the other passwords written in simple words. This was known as a dictonary attack. It does not take long.
Some passwords mixed with numbers, characters and letters with about 16-32 pieces in a single password required about 25 years to break if ever. It is highly unlikely such a program will be online on a computer that will function that long to break it.
One time someone outside of the school called our head of security asking for a serial number that is physically on the box in the office. That person got laughed off the phone and then traced. We never heard no more of that.
Part of the problem is that these passwords are too tedious to remember and enter. So the workers leave it on stick it notes near thier computers to be scooped up by anyone inside the facility.
Biometrics are becoming useful in logging in. Kinda hard for someone in Hillsville 3000 miles away to use it to log into your account.
What is interesting is that I have been part of the Internet for about 12 years now and I wonder how many little places that I littered with passwords that will exist for as long as the Internet does. Things like email addresses I no longer use.
Another red flag to look for in any "second chance" offer is a change in the method of payment from from the original eBay listing. For example, if the original listing indicated that PayPal was accepted for payment, and the second chance offer required that you wire money out of the country, that would certainly appear to be somewhat fishy.
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