Having finally been able to run some trains on my work-in-progress layout for a while, I found at least five ideas that worked better in theory than practice:
Bad Idea #1 - Putting an o31 curve at the bottom of a decline.
Unfortunately, the relatively short length of the walls forced my hand on this, but this sharp curve at the lowest point of a decline coming in from both sides necessitates a fair amount of throttle jockeying. Anything other than a mangatraction post war diesel is eventually going to build up enough momentum to derail cutting around this sharp curve. The train comes down a decline, makes the curve and then ascends an incline, so cutting back the power overall isn't the answer, as the train will be unable to make it up the grade.
Bad Idea #2 - Putting scratch built structures at the end of a decline capped off with o31 curve.
The trains come down from the left at a pretty good clip. No accidents yet, but steamers are a white knuckle flight. Of course working the throttle cures all ills, but you have to pay attention. Magnetraction diesels are the best bet here. I can see a runaway train flying right off the track into Grandmothers house.
Bad Idea #3 - Modern o72 switches.
These are really finicky. I had to use this switch in order to keep the distance between tracks to a minimum, as #22 switches (o31) really extended out, but trains really jostle and jump through these. In addition, cetains engines will not make it through these at all - my post war 681 and 221 being two I had in mind for this level.
Bad Idea #4 - Placing tracks too close to the wall.
I originally was going to use much thinner material in this area, but eventually went to 1/4" squares for this wall. That little bit of extra width precludes running certain engines on this level as at minimum they could scrape along the side. When you figure out how much room you need at the absolute maximum - add another half inch.
Bad Idea #5 - Too steep an incline on a line which eventually has a decline (yeah yeah - what goes up must come down).
While the incline on the upper track doesn't look very steep, when pulling seven or eight cars it needs some juice to make it over. Once it is back to level, it speeds up and when it starts the decline down the next wall --heading for the stratch built structures in the corner -- it's high ballin'.
Mostly all this merely calls for some throttle jockeying, however, the design flaws of the o72 switch and the proximity to the wall of some of the track does limit my choices as to what I can run on this level.
Lessons learned . . .
Frank.....Thanks for sharing those thoughts with us. I have a few things on my layout that are similar. Such as an " S " curve with 0-31 track. It works ok, but needs slow speed.
Chuck
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Can I add my five? 1) Wiring the layout as you go with what you have on hand. I should review my rats nest. Even though I regularly redo it - it ends up the same. Five transformers running five separated groups of track.
2) Not putting down a really solid base - like with plywood. My layout floats on a rock-filled raised crawlspace - with trackwork on seven outdoor-carpet-covered 4x8 ft 1 and a half inch thick foam boards. Thus I have all sorts of realistic grades but running anything as heavy as a Williams GG1 causes the track to shift annoyingly or derail on the corner curves.
3) Not somehow covering my fuzzy-insulation covered basement walls. I ran with these fuzzy pink skies for a few years. Then covered them by hanging plastic banquet table covers. I should've puzzled out how to cover them the right way.
4) Track too close - there's a few spots where track parallels each other too closely and units running on each collide or derail.5) Making the track fit. Instead of upping curve radii in a few places, I forced the 027 to fit. Nothing 'cept a short-wheel-based Birney loves these weird curves.
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
Frank,
You've given us good examples to be warey of when designing layouts. I'm sorry you've had to learn the hard way but hopefully your examples will help others avoid similar pitfalls and make their train running experience as pleasant as possible. So as you don't feel alone here's one of the major layout headaches that happened to me.
The big bridge I designed and made was in place and happily handling everything I could throw at it. I'd made sure there was plenty of width clearance inside the bridge towers so that long cars and engines could pass through and immediately hit curved track without scraping the sides of the towers. If I do say so myself I was quite proud of my engineering. That is until I got my GG1. What good is a GG1 unless you run it with the rear pantograph up, right? Well, I found out pretty quick that I'd forgotten about height clearance for something unusually high. When the GG1 came to an abrupt stop when entering the bridge I felt my heart sink. Luckily the pantograph wasn't torn from it's moorings so the only damage done was to my pride. Poor old #4876 now runs around with pants down. I haven't found the ambition to modify the towers yet.
Bruce Webster
Oh, the best of plans....I had a great layout plan....then came implementation! I got the first level down and began to work on the next two levels. It was then that I got a few trains for Christmas and my birthday. These were the first trains put on the tracks and a few problem areas began to show up. First, the main level comes too close to the wall and so when the larger engines try to make the curve, well lets just say that Frank isn't the only one to discover this. Next, I have a few pieces of taller rolling stock as well as the GG1 with Pantographs. I soon realized my error in not figuring in the level of the rails for Fastrack and that they are high. So, the blocks used to raise the second level were too short. Easy fix, but I got lucky in that it was discovered before I got too far.
If I have one piece of wisdom to pass along, get a collection of your longest car/engine, your tallest car/engine, and your widest car/engine. Roll them around your tracks before you make any cuts or permanent or even hard things to correct. Then, go to the next part of the layout and repeat. This is easy, but we don't tend to do it because we have already thought everything through and won't have any problems.......YEAH RIGHT.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Hi Frank,
Food for thought here for sure. I'm in the design stage of my layout right now, but I can see I have some things to look at again. Mistake #3 almost got me, too. I had planned on using a few Atlas 072/054 switches on my layout, but thought I better try one out first. I found that everything except the longest engines were stopped in their tracks (on their tracks?) by that switch. Since my engines tend to be on the smaller side, it would have been a real show stopper.
Does anyone know if BEEPS can navigate Atlas O-36 switches OK?
Tim
Great post Frank...
Wes
Unfortunately for me, learning the hard way is SOP. Fortunately for me, the hardest lesson I've learned (so far) has been relatively mild - coaling towers and nearby curves/switches don't mix. Everything was hunky-dory until I fired up the Allegheny, which promply went THUNK and stopped under the tower - naturally it took several THUNKS until I finally realized it wasn't the switch at the head that was THUNKing, it was the cab overhang into the tower post. Luckily I'm just an operator with no permanent scenery to deal with, so a simple shift of the tower solved the issue.
As for BA #2, if you're REALLY worried about Gramma's safety, how about moving her to a safer side of the track and building a pillow factory there instead? At least the trains will have something soft to crash into......
Thanks for the post Frank! A lot of really good information. I was looking into the O72's for Christmas for the same reason.
Kurt
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Bad idea number 4 plus!
I used to use only my K-line scale switcher (very wide and tall) to check corner clearances. Then I noticed that my Beeps actually stick out farther lower down. Now I use both to check clearances.
This is an informative thread that I will add to the Newbie FAQ post.
Jim H
Bad idea # 3, update; NEVER use Lionel's 031 switch # 6-23011 series!!!
Bad idea # 4, additional information; like jimhaley mentioned use a locomotive with a great amount of overhang, a Williams SD45 will work for curves. Also read instruction manuals about track spacing, Lionel published a book a few years ago and track spacing was mentioned in there along with other subjects.
Along with everything else it is sometimes trial & error method that works best.
Lee F.
Hey Frank...I got to thinking...
Can you post an minimum overhang dimension on that Berk of yours through a 31" curve? That may be a good standard.
Thanks,
FJ and G wrote:frank, great tutorial!!!!! you need a feng shui advisor
"Everybody Wang Chung Tonite!"
jaabat wrote:Bad Layout Idea # 6: Using girly-man old-style tubular instead of FasTrack...
Hey Jimbo how do you custom fit your Girly track called Fastrac?
Also Jimbo you might want to listen to some real man's music by Ted Nugent (Amboy Dukes)from 1968!
phillyreading wrote: jaabat wrote:Bad Layout Idea # 6: Using girly-man old-style tubular instead of FasTrack...Hey Jimbo how do you custom fit your Girly track called Fastrac?Lee F.
I don't have to custom fit pieces, Leebo. I make it fit right the first time, and every time. Ask around. You'll hear that about me.
How's the weathah down theyah? I have friends flying down on Friday.
phillyreading wrote:Hey Jimbo how do you custom fit your Girly track called Fastrac?Also Jimbo you might want to listen to some real man's music by Ted Nugent (Amboy Dukes)from 1968!Lee F.
Ted Nugent?!!! Isn't he that animal killer dude?
The weathah down here is balmy and rainy with an occasional water spout being spotted over land, with occasional nickel to golf ball sized hail. Temp around 81.
P.S. Snowbird season just ended!
Ted Nugent is 100 % sober from what I hear. Animal killer-don't know!
Jimbo,
That was yesterday afternoon! Wait until hurricane season for the really bad stuff!!!
jaabat wrote:Leebo. I make it fit right the first time, and every time. Ask around. You'll hear that about me.
Leebo. I make it fit right the first time, and every time. Ask around. You'll hear that about me.
Just saw an interesting documentary on a worm making it's way through the Holland Tunnel.
Not sure what made me think of that.
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