Lionel Fastrack Setup

[lionelsoni]

Fortunately, TMCC and DCS locomotives can easily be upgraded to conventional operation by adding e-units, and rectifiers as needed....;-)

[jimhaleyscomet]

Jim,
Not so there are TMCC II engines in the new catalog for $399.00 if memory serves me correctly... look at the newer deisel engines...Brent

 

I stand corrected...I do not have the new catalog yet.  I am glad to see TMCC in less expensive engines....

Still the "conventional" control engines can be much less ($60 - $120-$xxxx).   While I have four TMCC engines (and four PS2.0 engines), I currently receive much more fun from my money by purchasing multiple small conventional control inexpensive engines and entry level sets.  

Jim H 

 

[Anonymous]

If you want you can go on to the Lionel website and download the new ZW manual.  That way you can be totally confused by the time it comes in!!!!!! 

Since you already have a terminal track with wires you should be good to go, just replace the powermax with the new ZW....talk about an upgrade!!!!! 

As for TMCC  or TMCCII.... since all I want is remote control of conventional engines I am sticking with TMCC Cab1/command base ($115?) for my new ZW.  Those new TMCCII engines are very expensive (over $1000) plus the command set is about $150 more than TMCC Cab1/command base! 

 

Jim H 

Jim,
Not so there are TMCC II engines in the new catalog for $399.00 if memory serves me correctly... look at the newer deisel engines...Brent

[mistyk11]

conventional  means that it is not TMCC equipped.  Have fun with the new ZW.  Wish I had one!

 

Thanks IronHoarse....I wasn't sure if conventional had something to do with the pre-war/post-war terminology...

[mistyk11]

MISTY to the forum.  Stop by the coffee pot and have a few with us.

BTW the SMITH BROTHERS hobby shop any relation to the cough drop SMITH BROTHERS?

laz57

Thanks for the welcome!! I'm learning a lot....maybe TOO much. I'll stop by the coffee pot and see what else I can learn!

[IronHoarse]

conventional  means that it is not TMCC equipped.  Have fun with the new ZW.  Wish I had one!

[laz 57]

MISTY to the forum.  Stop by the coffee pot and have a few with us.

BTW the SMITH BROTHERS hobby shop any relation to the cough drop SMITH BROTHERS?

laz57

[mistyk11]

I "glanced" at the ZW manual...I decided to wait to finish it until the unit arrives...more fun to confuse myself then! Actually, I pretty well understand the basic connections for it. The fun will come when I decide to incorporate the TMCC stuff.

When you mention conventional engines, what exactly are you referring to? Would that be just the standard, single engine locomotives?

[jimhaleyscomet]

Misty...

One other thing...as far as TMCC goes keep it simple for now.  All you would "need" is the Cab1/command base combination to add remote control  and voltage limiting to your new ZW.  All the rest is for the fancy folks. 

Jim H 

[jimhaleyscomet]

If you want you can go on to the Lionel website and download the new ZW manual.  That way you can be totally confused by the time it comes in!!!!!! 

Since you already have a terminal track with wires you should be good to go, just replace the powermax with the new ZW....talk about an upgrade!!!!! 

As for TMCC  or TMCCII.... since all I want is remote control of conventional engines I am sticking with TMCC Cab1/command base ($115?) for my new ZW.  Those new TMCCII engines are very expensive (over $1000) plus the command set is about $150 more than TMCC Cab1/command base! 

 

Jim H 

[mistyk11]

Ok, so I took the big step and ordered the new ZW.. I want to say thanks to everyone who helped me by giving me some insight into the different ways I could have gone. It was a big decision for me since we are new to the hobby but even the husband said that we'll probably be expanding on down the road. At least now, we can get the accessories we want, along with being able to run whatever locomotives and cars we want without worry that we wouldn't have enough power to run it all. I still am looking for any suggestions on power accessories we will need in order to hook it up when it gets here. And of course, I'm always looking for new ways to improve the layout! (but the TMCC stuff will DEFINITELY have to wait for now!) Now, it's on to scenery to go along with the Area 51 set up that my son wants....Any ideas for making alien figures??

[mistyk11]

Wow, I guess I'll start by picking the transformer then figure out the TMCC stuff later. I keep reminding myself to start slow and take little steps. The husband has given me the ok for the new ZW so I will be ordering that today (yippee!) Is there anything else I will absolutely need to order with it so that when it arrives, we are good to go with hooking it up. It drives me crazy when I order something, it arrives, and then when you go to hook it up, you find you need something else....We are using Fastrack so I just want to know if there are any special devices or connectors I need to order along with the ZW.

[Anonymous]

It is a Track Power Controller (either TPC 300 or TPC 400).  The number indicated the number of watts it is capable of regulating.

Since I would be using a KW I would only need the TPC-300.

If you do not have a Modern ZW you need the following to run conventional locos using TMCC:
1. Cab-1 Remote
2. Command Base
3. Power House Supply or 18-volt tranformer with Power Adapter Cable
4. Power Master, or TPC-300 or TPC-400

If you are going TMCC-II
1. Legacy Command Set
2. Power House Supply or 18-volt tranformer with Power Adapter Cable
3. Power Master, or TPC-300 or TPC-400

In all TMCC-II is about $150 more than TMCC.

[mistyk11]

I was just looking thru the new Lionel catalog at all the stuff for the TMCC-wow, totally confusing to me! I wouldn't be going that route for a while, considering what I would be spending for the new ZW...it would be hard to sell that one to the husband so quickly after the transformer purchase. By the time I'm ready for it, the new stuff will be out.

And what's a TPC? (or should I even ask??)

[Anonymous]

Misty,
If considering TMCC, you may want to wait off a bit until TMCC-II comes out.

I purchased the Cab-1/Command Base (you need BOTH) back in December, it was nice but I am going to purchase the TMCC-II components once they have been released and I have the layout started.

I have not decided if I want to use the TMCC components on the Christmas layout... if I do that then I most likely will need a TPC and I'm not sold on going that work.

Brent

[mistyk11]

Misty, If you are going to take the plunge for a post war ZW I strongly recommend going with a new ZW unit for three reasons.  Otherwise I would stay with a less expensive transformer. 

Here is why I prefer new ZWs 

1.  New unit has bell (an external bell can be added to a post war ZW).

2.  New unit has advanced circuit protection (external circuit breakers can be added to a post war ZW).

3.  You tend to run conventional engines.  By adding the Cab 1 you get remote control off ALL your conventional engines.  In addition you can set a maximum voltage on the ZW handles and hand the remote to the little tykes.  When you set the voltage low enough via the ZW handles the little tykes can not make the engine fly off the tracks.  This is what my club does and it works FANTASTIC.  In my opinion this feature alone justifies the additional expense because it makes the layout much more accessible to youngsters.  

There is no doubt the new ZW/Cab1 is very expensive releative to less expensive transformers.  For me it was well worth the cost but there are many folks for whom the cost is definately not worth it...there really is no "incorrect" answer.  Good luck on your decision!!

Jim H 

 

 

Your 3rd reason would be the only reason I would take a 2nd look at the Cab-1- my son is very careful but he is a 7 yr old boy who gets tempted once in a while...plus the advanced circuit protection and built in bell means less electrical hook up that I have to contend with. I like the prices of the rebuilt ZW and KW's but our closest service center is about 45 miles from my house and I never get out that way. I probably will just go with the ZW and be done with it. I didn't realize the features of the Cab-1 with the ability to set the voltage-I truly thought that all the remote stuff was simply for larger set ups that run more than just 1 train and a ton of accessories. Guess I'll do some more research into the TMCC stuff....I think that's part of my problem, I tend to research everything instead of just making a decision and sticking with it. My husband complains about that all the time!

[jimhaleyscomet]

Misty, If you are going to take the plunge for a post war ZW I strongly recommend going with a new ZW unit for three reasons.  Otherwise I would stay with a less expensive transformer. 

Here is why I prefer new ZWs 

1.  New unit has bell (an external bell can be added to a post war ZW).

2.  New unit has advanced circuit protection (external circuit breakers can be added to a post war ZW).

3.  You tend to run conventional engines.  By adding the Cab 1 you get remote control off ALL your conventional engines.  In addition you can set a maximum voltage on the ZW handles and hand the remote to the little tykes.  When you set the voltage low enough via the ZW handles the little tykes can not make the engine fly off the tracks.  This is what my club does and it works FANTASTIC.  In my opinion this feature alone justifies the additional expense because it makes the layout much more accessible to youngsters.  

There is no doubt the new ZW/Cab1 is very expensive releative to less expensive transformers.  For me it was well worth the cost but there are many folks for whom the cost is definately not worth it...there really is no "incorrect" answer.  Good luck on your decision!!

Jim H 

 

 

[Anonymous]

Misty,
They replace any worn components within the transformer.  That also depends on the transformer.  I have never performed a rebuild myself so I can't say for sure, many here on the board have done them and can probably answer this better than I can.

The ZW you are referencing is a PostWar ZW and will not have the bell function either.  If you purchase from an online store then you can pretty much be gauranteed you are getting a very quality job.  You can still beat those prices at trainshows and on EBay, and with the repair service at a repair shop you should still come out lower than those prices!

I'll look up the bell control mechanism and get back to you...

Edit: It is called a SOUND ACTIVATION BUTTON.  Lionel Part No. 610-5906-001

Thought I would be even more helpful and see if I could find one online... not sure if this is it (found on Lionel's parts site):

22) Part Number: 818-2115-001

BUTTON,DC SOUND ACTIVATION

Price: $ 13.00

Brent

[mistyk11]

Thanks for the Pic Brent-I had no idea what the KW looked like.. Plus seeing the hook ups on the back, they aren't quite so scary! I would prefer something with the bell function since the trains my son wants, and has, have bells on them however I wouldn't have a problem having to hook up the seperate bell function if I had to.

I was looking through one of the online stores and saw a rebuilt ZW 275w....it's going for about $275.00. They also have a rebuilt KW for $175.00. When most people say they are rebuilt, what exactly do they "rebuild" in them?

[Anonymous]

I really have no intention of running the TMCC since our layout is only 8x4 so I'm not too worried about finding what will run with that. I know that I probably should just take the plunge and get the ZW but it's a lot of money and I just don't know if I'll ever need that much power. I could probably get away with just adding a CW80 or a MTH Z1000 for a lot less money (which would make the hubby a little bit happier!) and be content with that. I can't expand my track any more until we get a new room (which won't be any time soon) so the most that I'll be doing is adding some lighting and maybe another signal.  I have to keep reminding myself that this train is for my 7 yr old son and he's quite content with what we currently have but it's just so dang addicting!

Misty,
Seriously look at a PostWar KW.  They have plenty of power for a simple two loop setup and you can find them for under $100 (if you do not buy it from a store, make sure you take it to one and have it serviced).

I have provided a few pics of my KW and a Wiring Diagram I put together for my reference:

Top View


Rear View


Wiring Diagram


The A handle controls the voltage from the A-U post combination, B handle controls the voltage from the B-U post combination.  Fixed voltages are 6V from C-U, 14V from C-D, and 20V from D-U.  I use the 6V or 14V for lights or accessories, and the 20V is rarely used.

The only problem with the PostWar transformers is there is no way to activate the Bell on the engine.  You can purchase another device to do this, but I can not remember which Lionel part is required (I only use the KW to power PostWar engines and they do not have the Bell feature - I don't typically use the bell when the engines are running anyway, just when I first set them on the track to make sure the feature really does work).

Brent

[mistyk11]

I really have no intention of running the TMCC since our layout is only 8x4 so I'm not too worried about finding what will run with that. I know that I probably should just take the plunge and get the ZW but it's a lot of money and I just don't know if I'll ever need that much power. I could probably get away with just adding a CW80 or a MTH Z1000 for a lot less money (which would make the hubby a little bit happier!) and be content with that. I can't expand my track any more until we get a new room (which won't be any time soon) so the most that I'll be doing is adding some lighting and maybe another signal.  I have to keep reminding myself that this train is for my 7 yr old son and he's quite content with what we currently have but it's just so dang addicting!

[jimhaleyscomet]

Misty, You might want to check out the following links from the FAQ/newbie post (the first thread on the forum).  The FAQ post might also have other links to help.

What transformer to use?

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1022084/ShowPost.aspx

Should I purchase a new or old ZW?   How can I run conventional locomotives remotely using new ZW?  Should I update conventional engines to command control?

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1022598/ShowPost.aspx#1022598

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1034084/ShowPost.aspx

How do I run conventional engines with DCS?

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1024179/ShowPost.asp

 If you want the top of the line and want to run conventional engines remotely than the new ZW with TMCC cab 1 is fantastic but also very spendy ($350 for transformer and $100 for Cab 1).  I waited years before I took the plunge but am glad I did.  I am not saying you "must" go this route or even that you might want to.  I just wanted you to consider it before spending money on intermediate transformers.  

I also find when I want a smaller transformer it is a better value to just purchase a new set that is on sale.  Then I get the transformer, another train, and more track.   Justrains.com is where I find inexpensive sets but islandtrains.com and others are also located in the CTT magazine (they sponsor this forum) advertisements.  

Jim H 

 

[mistyk11]

Thanks for that Earl. We've only been to the local hobbytown usa in Victorville and even though they can order anything we need, their selection is mainly HO and N gauge so they don't carry a lot of O gauge. During the spring break in April, we may have to take a trip to Tehachapi since we're really not that far away. There are several stores down in the San Bernardino area and we're down there frequently however it would be nice to find something up in our general area. My son likes to be able to see and pick out what he wants and doesn't like to have to wait for them to arrive via internet orders...I can't say that I blame him!

[EIS2]

I am 2 miles from Smith Brothers.  Smith Brothers does not have a large selection of trains compared to other hobby shops.  However, they have recently vastly increased their Lionel offerings.  They have a Lionel layout, around 8'x8', that is pretty much devoid of scenery.  Their prices are pretty good on their sale items. 

There is also a good train hobby shop in Tehachapi called Trains Etc.  It used to be entirely O-Gauge but it recently changed ownership and has expanded into other gauges.  I haven't been to the store since the ownership change.

Earl

[mistyk11]

Thanks Earl I may take you up on that offer. By the way, are you familiar with a hobby store that is in in Lancaster called Smith Brothers? The Lionel website shows they are a dealer and I was looking at making at trip out there one day and was wondering how far away you may be from there?

[EIS2]

Mistyk11,

 I live in Lancaster, Ca.  I would be glad to look at your engine and check it out for you.  If you're in the area, drop in.

Earl

[dwiemer]

choochoo1, the DVD does mostly cover fastrack, but if you are looking for a helix, it is not in the DVD.  The video does have plenty of usefull information.  I have heard of some folks trying a helix, but I have not seen one.  If your helix is to be hidden, you may be better served with a transition track and going with tubular. 

Dennis

[Anonymous]

Hi Dennis, you spoke of a DVD called "Building an O Gauge Layout".

Would you happen to know if this dvd covers fastrack?

Ihave this book that you are talking about,but it doesn't say anything about using fastrack on a helix.

Can you help me?

Thanks

Allan

[mistyk11]

Thanks Paul, your post answered another one of my questions. I didn't know what the horn was supposed to sound like and yes, it does sound like a buzzer on mine. When the engine sits in idle, there is no buzz. It's only when it powers up and starts to run. The buzz sound diminshes a bit while it's moving but that could be because of the other sounds drowning it out. I will start my search for a larger transformer. Everyone be ready, I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions when I find it!!! My husband is going to kill me when he finds out I'm spending more $$ on the train set!