People actually buy this stuff!

[phillyreading]

 Hello All!    Bruce- How about a 1688 for your 1960 Corvair? That would be a fair deal. Take Care.

After looking up the Greenberg price for the 1688 OUCH!!

Lee F.

[1688torpedo]

 Lee- The looks & running ability of a 1688 far surpass its value & Bruce will wonder how he has lived without one. Take Care.

[phillyreading]

Keith,

You mean that a Corvair is not worth that much even today?

However I have not seen a 1688 locomotive so maybe I am missing something.

Lee F.

[Frank53]

Here's an interesting auction - $360.00 for a post war b-o-x for a 6464 Alaska box car.

Auction for Post War $360.00 Box

I almost understand this better than buying modern trains by the (brown) truckload for layouts yet to be built etc.

Obviously this is a collector, and I get the idea of finding a hard to find piece to complete a collection. I wouldn't do it, but I think folks are are real pure collectors are quite a different breed from the train hobbyist who builds a layout and runs trains. 

[Anonymous]

I'm a little of both. Realy don't care much for boxes. If they come with my piece then that is a bonus.

That Alaska Box sure is NICE though.

Every aspect of O guage is FUN!!!

[Anonymous]

 Hello All!    Bruce- How about a 1688 for your 1960 Corvair? That would be a fair deal. Take Care.

Sounds fair to me, Kieth!  Since I'm only getting an engine then so are you!  I'll pay the shipping on my new 1688.  I'll also get an estimate on how much it's gonna cost you to have a 250 lb. Corvair engine shipped

Bruce Webster

[LS1Heli]

What about 3 months ago on eBay a 402E box ONLY and master carton selling for $5,800+! You can buy a car for that!

Then you would need to spend an addtional $3,500 to get the engine in similar condition.

Highest Lionel price ever- broken 2 months ago at Stout Auctions.

Mint Lionel Standard Gauge State Set boxed: TWO HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.

Hows that for "people actually buy this stuff?"

[Frank53]

Hows that for "people actually buy this stuff?"

You're really working two sides of two different coins to support your arguement, as the $250,000 Pre-War set has little if anything to do with Paul's original point regarding the new stuff in the catalogs.

 

[pbjwilson]

What about 3 months ago on eBay a 402E box ONLY and master carton selling for $5,800+! You can buy a car for that!

Then you would need to spend an addtional $3,500 to get the engine in similar condition.

Highest Lionel price ever- broken 2 months ago at Stout Auctions.

Mint Lionel Standard Gauge State Set boxed: TWO HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.

Hows that for "people actually buy this stuff?"

I see those as rare collectibles that might not come up for aution again, or not for a long while. I can understand the buyer who shells out that kind of money on a rarity. I dont get Lionel selling remakes of sets for a $1000. Nothing new, just a remake. Now a set that is original selling for thousands, that I get. Same with MTH tinplate. Why spend your money on a new bright and shiny tinplate set when the originals can be had for the same amount, in slightly less perfect condition. Thats one thought.

The other thought is I just have a problem with some folks makin too much money. I'm surrounded by wealth in my neck of the woods. I just dont like seeing it anymore. Too much waste. Too many service trucks buzzing around. Too many high rollers flaunting their stuff.

Wisconsin, Here I come!

[Anonymous]

I agree, I don't understand buying remakes of old tinplate. I guess people don't want to run the original ones; they just sit on the shelves or worse...in boxes!  I LOVE collecting trains and placing them on shelves for everyone to see, but I don't hesitate when someone wants to see a train run. I run them all. Ward Kimball ran every train he owned!! Even the first 'train' Lionel ever made!! That is cool.

They also must buy the remakes for the technology that is in them. The TMCC, the Protosound, and the smoke that was never in the old ones. I can understand that reason .

[cnw1995]

Paul, I don't think it's any better in Wisconsin - at least up near the border by me.  Let's keep going all the way up to the UP - that ought to cure us.

[pbjwilson]

Paul, I don't think it's any better in Wisconsin - at least up near the border by me.  Let's keep going all the way up to the UP - that ought to cure us.

Ya hey dar. Go on up to the UP. Be a UPer. Ya hey, I like dat idea dar. Catch us a mess a perch, some walleye, maybe even a Northern. Go to the supper club on friday nights. Friday nights all you can eat fish fry, ya hey.

[cheapclassics]

To all,

At first I was not too sure what to make of this thread.  As I started reading all the responses, it is obvious there is a lot of differing opinions on the topic.  Here are some of my observations.  One is on the $253,000 standard gauge set.  I am not too sure which is sadder, that it cost that much now or that it was never played with when it was new. 

Here is what I did in the past and what I am doing now.  I started off with O-27 MPC.  It was all I knew about and all I could afford.  After I acquired a small collection, I started writing about them, which enable me to buy more and slightly better stuff.  Then Lionel stopped making O-27 cars.  I had a good job at the time and I could afford some items of standard gauge tinplate, which I bought.  I have one completely original set, and some restored pieces.  I also bought some Lionel Classics and some MTH as well.  As far as O gauge was concerned, collecting all of even one type car was getting impossible due to uncataloged sets that were specialty items, so I switched to certain railroads that Lionel focused on the low priced side of the aisle, such as the Alaska railroad equipment.  Even that has gone away with the loss of the good job and the expenses of my son's illness.  Now I may get one or two items a year, and I troll eBay looking for bargains.  Sometimes I find them, such as a 1989 Lionel Classics Christmas car for $20.  I have several O-27 engines and four standard gauge, so I have plenty of motive power.  I have more than enough rolling stock.  I enjoy being on this forum and talking trains with people all over the country (and world).  Would I like to buy more than what I have? Sure.  Do I envy those who have more?  No, but I enjoy watching them run their trains.  I am glad there are people who can and do buy the $1000-$2000 engines because those engines would not have been made without those type of customers.  Even if I had the money, time and space, I doubt if I would buy anything that extravagant.  If I did tho, I would definitely run it.

I hope everyone has a good day.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana 

 

[Anonymous]

The other thought is I just have a problem with some folks makin too much money. ...

I'm not even going to touch this one... wowzers...

[Joe Hohmann]

The other thought is I just have a problem with some folks makin too much money. ...

I'm not even going to touch this one... wowzers...

I'm curious, when I hear this, what salary, savings account balance, etc. they think is "too much". Joe

[pbjwilson]

The other thought is I just have a problem with some folks makin too much money. ...

I'm not even going to touch this one... wowzers...

I'm curious, when I hear this, what salary, savings account balance, etc. they think is "too much". Joe

When you HAVE a savings account, thats too much. If you can pay all your bills every month without putting some on a credit card, thats too much. If you dont need to refinance your house and take money out of it every 2 years, thats too much. If your credit score approaches 600, thats too much. Should I go on?

[edw]

The argument that the rise in inflation over the past 50 years justifies current prices is not persuasive for this reason. When Lionel was selling trains in the United States for less than $100 back in 1950, their labor costs were on the order of a couple of dollars an hour. Now, half a century later, they are still paying only a couple of dollars an hour (or less) to workers in Asia, with not much higher factory overhead, and yet their products cost ten times as much.

Paying a living wage to American workers in 1950 is one thing, paying low wages now to Asian workers in order to gouge American hobbyists is quite another.

[Anonymous]

The other thought is I just have a problem with some folks makin too much money. ...

I'm not even going to touch this one... wowzers...

I'm curious, when I hear this, what salary, savings account balance, etc. they think is "too much". Joe

When you HAVE a savings account, thats too much. If you can pay all your bills every month without putting some on a credit card, thats too much. If you dont need to refinance your house and take money out of it every 2 years, thats too much. If your credit score approaches 600, thats too much. Should I go on?

So I guess I should have to work till the day I die?  No thank you!

I went to college to get a degree that would afford me the best opportunity to earn a wage that I could invest money so I wouldn't have to worry about retirement or whether Social Security will be there for me.  Sorry but I disagree with your entire premise here...

When I got divorced my Credit Score took a nose dive and I've been working at fixing that for two years now, thankfully I have it back up over 700!  You NEVER want your Credit Score do drop below 680.  If it does you are viewed as being a RISK and will not receive the best rates.

Living in debt and passing that debt on to your heirs is not a nice thing to do.

I think it is time this thread gets locked!

[pbjwilson]

Just trying to be a little amusing and light hearted. It is Friday. I'm sick of this topic too, let it die.

[hopper]

Only one thing I can't see about this whole thing. Thats spending 1500-2000 for a locomotive that's dressed to the 9's in detail,with all the bells & whistlers and has that ugly teether wire,or whatever you call it,between the tender & locomotive. You would think with all that high tech,they would figure out a way to get rid of that thing. Easter 

[laz 57]

Hey PAUL did you ever think this thread would have so much interest?

laz57

[csxt30]

Only one thing I can't see about this whole thing. Thats spending 1500-2000 for a locomotive that's dressed to the 9's in detail,with all the bells & whistlers and has that ugly teether wire,or whatever you call it,between the tender & locomotive. You would think with all that high tech,they would figure out a way to get rid of that thing. Easter 

Lionel has had the infrared tether for years, & MTH now has it on their recent new engines.

[palallin]

If the tether is done well, it very closely resembles some of the hose connections used in real life, thus enhancing the look.  Unfortunately, many are not done well.

[pbjwilson]

Hey PAUL did you ever think this thread would have so much interest?

laz57

Got to stir things up once in awhile. Whats the saying about never bringing up the topics of religion, politics, and money, or is it sex? No sex is always good to talk about. How could I work that into a toy train topic? 

[3railguy]

Just trying to be a little amusing and light hearted. It is Friday. I'm sick of this topic too, let it die.

LOL....lighten up...you brought it on yourself.

[Anonymous]

I agree, I don't understand buying remakes of old tinplate. I guess people don't want to run the original ones; they just sit on the shelves or worse...in boxes!. . .

They also must buy the remakes for the technology that is in them. The TMCC, the Protosound, and the smoke that was never in the old ones. I can understand that reason .

Well, I certainly like the new motors and features in reproduction tinplate (speed control in Std. Gauge is awesome, in my opinion), but I primarily buy repros (Std. Gauge and Marx) because I like new, bright, pristine, smooth running, and relatively quiet tinplate trains.  I don't hesitate to run them, but I like to keep them in like-new condition, and I couldn't afford to buy originals of that overall quality even if I could find them.  Beyond that, the repros are, in most cases, better made than the originals, and have better paint and graphics.

The hobby is different things to different people.  I have no trouble understanding why some people prefer only the original toys from many years ago--evewn those that have been well used.  At the same time, I have no trouble understanding why some of us ( in growing numbers) are truly grateful for the superb reproductions of those earlier toys that are being offered today. 

[Kooljock1]

Paul,

In regards to your toungue-in-cheek supposition of last night regarding finances, after long and hard study of folks suffering from economic envy, I think I can fairly state:

"The Rich": anyone who makes a dollar more than you.

"Livable Wage": the amount of money it would take to cover the fact that you're already living above your means. Here in Vermont I've seen numbers from "Livable Wage Activists" that claim I'm "poor" and not earning a "livable wage". I have three well-fed, well clothed children, a new Jeep, a nice train layout in the basement, and I'm typing this on a year old iMac G-5. I still have enough left over to give to the church, and volunteer my time to a few philantropic organizations. So what would a "liviable wage" mean? Perhaps taking the kids to Disney? Plane tickets ARE a priority for some...

"Trains are too expensive": this is from anyone who does not consider toy trains a priority. They'll blow just as much on an X-Box 360, PS-3, ATV, Snowmobile, ski-boat, bass boat, or Hummel collection though.

As far as comparing today's trains to Post War, you'll have a very tough row to hoe. In the Post War era, Lionel developed very little original tooling for their steam engine line. Consider that the 646/2046/726/736 was a modified Pre-War tool. So was the 675/2025 and even the lowly Scouts and 2018 types all stemmed from the Pre-War era. Die Cast tooling is very expensive, and we demand new die-cast beasts each year.
The tooling is so expensive that in the 1930's Lionel had their die-cast tools made in fascist Italy. And we demand better sounds. And we demand kooler electronic controls.

In the Post War era, Lionel was using a Pre-War E-unit(developed by Ives!) and a mechanical whistle developed in the mid-30's.

Also, in the days of Lionel providing a "living wage" for American workers, consider: most of the assembly workers were women providing "pin" money to their families. They also were furloughed for large parts of the year, getting callled back up in June or so to begin production of the line for the next Christmas. Have any of you ever read an article about a Lionel employee who actually worked on the line? No. Because it was a very low-glamour, low-wage, dead-end job. This is why the workers unionized, and drove Lionel as early as the 1960's to have their motors produced in Japan.

Jon

[laz 57]

Hey PAUL did you ever think this thread would have so much interest?

laz57

Got to stir things up once in awhile. Whats the saying about never bringing up the topics of religion, politics, and money, or is it sex? No sex is always good to talk about. How could I work that into a toy train topic? 

 

Hey PAUL, how about What's your sexyist steamer or Layout sexy scenes?  Probably would get squashed?

laz57

[jonadel]

Kooljock--  

Whew...... you had me worried for a second about folks blowing money, thank goodness you didn't mention a motorcycle in that paragraph.  Absolutely one of lifes neccessities in my world.

 

Jon

[Anonymous]

Paul,

This is why the workers unionized, and drove Lionel as early as the 1960's to have their motors produced in Japan.

Jon

Is there something wrong with the union? Without the union I would not be getting half the wages, benefits or anything like that. Without the hard work of UPS employees they would not be able to profit 3.5 BILLION $$ a year! I think we need each other. Yes, there are differances but, without the union this Co. would fail. Nobody would do what I do for 11 Hrs a day, they would quit! It happens now, even though they know how much they will make.  I don't know if it's fair to say that the union drove Lionel to create jobs elsewhere.

Just havin' conversation, not pickin' a fight!