Controls panels - Feedback requested

[johnandjulie13]

Hello All:

I am putting the finishing touches on a small table that will hold my layout's transformers and accessory switches.  I have contemplated creating a control panel with indicator lights that would show turnout position.  My layout is small (6' x 9') with two loops connected by turnouts and a small yard inside of the inner loop, so the control panel is not really necessary to monitor the layout, I just think it would be pretty cool.

I am running DCS and intend to have all of the accessories controlled by the remote via the DCS AIU.  I will also have the electrical switches mounted on my "control table" so that I can throw turnouts, uncouple cars, etc. without having to access the remote.  As I have been sketching the wiring that will be needed to connect the accessories to the switches, AIU and relays (for the control panel lights) I started wondering if it is worth the effort.

So, my question is this, what are your thoughts about having a contol panel?  Is it useful?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Regards,

John O

[phillyreading]

A control panel or table can be very useful, you can put your transformers and TIU & AIU on it.

I have a small table about one foot by three feet underneath my layout (8 feet by 11 feet) that I mounted my ZW and Z and KW transformers on, also put 2 small regulated 12 volt power supplies underneath the small table, use them for lighting.  I don't have enuff space to put everything on top of the layout or next to it.  Mounted the TIU in the corner on top of two empty cat litter buckets(35 pound size), the AIU is under the TIU about 12 inches off the floor.

Lee F.

[Jumijo]

The benefit to adding a control panel is that you can put the transformer, and switch toggles, etc there and not on the layout table. With a layout as small as yours, that's a huge plus as your real estate is at a premium already.

Jim 

[Buckeye Riveter]

One of the neatest control panel configurations I have seen for a small layout such as this, is a small table/cart with rollers that rolls under the layout for storage.  When you want to run the trains, the cart is rolled out from under the table.

[lionelsoni]

That's what I use, actually an old portable-television cart, with two type-Zs on it.  However, all my turnout controllers are mounted along the edge of the layout.  They are Lionel O27-type controllers, which I mount by tucking the back half of the controller under the edge of the table and securing it with a fender washer and a screw through a hole drilled in the top of the controller case.  I also have a tiny sheet-aluminum shelf with my 5 block control SPDTs sticking out from the layout edge.

I gather that John is concerned mainly with the wiring between the layout and the panel, which isn't so bad when it serves only the transformers, but would be formidable if all the turnouts and accessories were included in the panel. 

[traindaddy1]

Hi! I found this table at my favorite store (dumpster). There is another shelf below the transformer but  wasn't there when the picture was taken. It is simple but does the job!

[traindaddy1]

JOHN: Sorry, I re-read your post.  I thought you were asking about a "where-to" put the transformer and controls. If you are thinking about having toggle switches for each track section mounted in that section's corresponding location on a painted track diagram, I admire your spirit. On a smaller layout, the simpler the better. Good luck!

Another thought: If you have a separate table for your controls (as I do) may I suggest that you utilize 'barrier terminal strips'.  I have them mounted under the train board. They accept the various wires firmly attached "in" from the accessories. The "out" side wires to the control table allow for easy removal should you want to move the table. I found that there is less trauma than working with numerous wires from the different accessories. Also, by using the 'barrier strip' you can make one lead from the transformer terminal to the 'strip' instead of having many separate accessory wires running to one transformer terminal.  I hope this is clear. "I ain't too good splainen dings"

[A&Y Ry]

John

If you want a low-budget display of your layout for mounting toggles, indicator LEDs, etc; a piece of 1/8" thick pegboard masonite covered with white self-sticking vinyl cabinet shelf liner makes a good surface. You can then lay out a schematic of your trackplan with automotive pin striping. If you use the pegboard type masonite the holes are sized just right for toggles or you can drill your own holes in a piece of solid masonite where indicated by the schematic.

You can also install analog or digital volt and amp meters, rocker switches,etc, on the same panel.

I used one as described above originally with a tabletop type component mounting,but then started using Cab 1 operated ASCs to control my turnouts. I am now considering going back to the schematic illustration board and the use of toggles to manually operate the DC Tortoise turnout motors.

 

[johnandjulie13]

Hello All:

Thanks for the feedback.  I am utilizing a small table to house all of the electronic gear (I am currently staining the table pieces, installing wheel casters comes next).  The table will be on wheels and will be rolled under the layout when not in use.   What I would like to know is how many of you have a control panel with indicator lights on it.  This is where I see the wiring becoming really messy as I will need to have relays wired in to indicate turnout position.  While I think it would look really cool to have a lighted control panel, for a layout of my size, I don't know whether it is worth the effort.

Regards,

John O

[A&Y Ry]

John O

The type of turnout motor [Tortoise] I have simplfies my [planned] control panel which will be like the small one I had originally. I will not use indicator lights aside from the red/green ones on the switchstand lights at the turnout location[which you cannot always see].

The Tortoise motor is a DC "stall" motor [about $12] which will not burn out when the toggle is left on in either postion of the DPDT that I use [but a SPST will work]. That enables one to simply glance at the turnout position painted or striped on their panel track schematic and determine the "throw" position of the turnout. The toggle's handle position within the "vee" of the turnout legs indicates the position of the turnout----whether the turnout is in the "out" position to a siding or "through" on the mainline. No indicator light is needed.

If I leave the panel area and walk around with the handheld Cab 1, of course I cannot operate the turnouts remotely as I now can do from any layout position as currently with ASCs. Many rightly consider that a disadvantage but having experienced it both ways, I do not.

Also, soldering wires to toggle terminals is tedious for an old shaky O-gauger. I have 28 turnouts.

[johnandjulie13]

Hello Dewey:

Thank you for the feedback.  I am soldering challenged as well.

I was going to incorporate a relay that Atlas sells that could illuminate the appropriate light on a panel to indictate turnout position.  This would allow to avoid any significant soldering.

I hope to have my "control table" finished tonight (I will post some pics).  I will then be able to see how much real estate I would have to incorporate a lighted panel.

Regards,

John O

[brianel027]

John, I have always had small layouts with exceptionally complicated control panels for a small layout. I don't run with digital control though, so isolated blocks are essential to the way I run the trains. On my older layout, the control pantel was a Rubbermaid large kitchen storage box which I used upside down and drilled holes into for the many toggle switches. That layout took substantial water damage during the heavy rains in June that caused much flooding north of Binghamton, NY.

On my new layout (still very much under construction) the layout is entirely blue styrofoam insulation board that I got as scrap. The new control panel is some kind of construction plastic tracking material in an angular U-shape. I put several 3/8" square basswood pieces sticking out a few inches from the narrow frame work that I used. Then I cut some slits on one end of the plastic channel and the control panel drops right on to the basswood supports quite nicely. Again, I run my whole layout on rectified DC current off one of several Lionel 1033's. The cheaper locos I have really do run much much better on DC current without the circuit board e-units. I have many insulated blocks to allow the operation I like minus the neutral position of the circuit board e-units (those have now been removed from most of my locos). Operating cars have all now been altered to operate without the UCS tracks, and only require the loco to be on a insultated block.

Most folks are amazed at the large control panels I end up having for such small layouts, but hey, for me it's all part of the fun. I love being able to do all this on the cheap and love telling folks that I have done it on the cheap... for encouragement that this hobby IS DOABLE on any budget so long as you can live within those restraints and compromises.

[spankybird]

Last year, I designed and built a layout about the size of yours, (6' x 8'). I used draw pulls and made the control panel pull out - push in.

 

Here is a link to other pics of this layout

http://www.wrmrrm.shutterfly.com/action/slideshow?a=67b0de21b338fe2d25be&auto=0&m=1&d=1170954568125

tom

[Anonymous]

Tom,
Great job with the drawer idea. That's a great solution and also a great table and framework.
Mike

[johnandjulie13]

Tom:

I love that sliding drawer!  I remember you posting pics of the layout's construction, I never paid attention to the sliding panel for the transformers.  Nice work.

Regards,

John O

[johnandjulie13]

Brianel027:

Thanks for the feedback.  I think I am going to have the control panel even though the cost/benefit may not make sense.  It is part of the fun for me as well.

Btw, how do you modify operating cars to operate without a UCS track?

Regards,

John O

[Anonymous]

 

 

Something like this ?????

Tim

[johnandjulie13]

Hello Tim:

Very nice!  What are all of the toggle switches for?

Regards,

John O

[Sturgeon-Phish]

To keep the wires between the panel and the table I used the plastic spiral wire loom stuff at autozone to keep the wires neat.  Also, use terminal strips and lable everything.  A single on off switch that can kill everything is great and if you make the switch with a pilot light it helps. 

I took the wires from the control panel and terminated them to terminal strips raight at the edge of the table.  This way, if I wanted to, I could remove the control panel from the layout.  Each wire is marked with a corresponding terminal position.  Run a few sets of extra sets of wires foor future use.  Ammeters on the control panel will help you keep an eye on the engine performance, and look cool too

 Here is a pic of my control panel

Jim

[traindaddy1]

JIM: Beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

[lionelsoni]

Here's a hint to reduce flexing of the wires to a hinged control panel:  Run all the wires to one end of the hinged edge, then in a bundle parallel to that edge to the other end of the edge.  Fasten the bundle to the panel at one end and to the stationary part at the other end.  This way, the only flexing is a twist of the bundle through a modest angle when the lid is opened and closed.

This was the standard way of wiring telephone-switchboard keyshelves.

[johnandjulie13]

Jim:

Excellent wiring job!  I like the idea of having a master on/off.  I was planning on having the wires from the control panel terminate into connectors that could be unplugged, allowing the control panel to be removed.  This will also allow easier relocation of the layout, if we ever finish our basement.  Thanks for the feedback!

Regards,

John O

[brianel027]

John, to answer your question, first it helps to not be challenged about soldering.

I found by running my layout on DC current the locos use far less current to operate. Over the years, the Lionel type slide shoes have been troublesome at times. I'll note I have no trouble with the MTH slide shoe on their operating cars.... MTH made a big design improvement on the slide shoe in my estimation.

So what I did what I removed the slide shoe trucks from several cars , like my operating barrel, milk and merchandise cars. I replaced those with normal trucks with a roller pickup and rewired the cars with a small mini toggle or slide switch somewhere on the car - either on the body or on the underside of the frame, but near the edge. When I want to operate the car, I hit the switch on. The normal DC current to the track runs the loco but isn't high enough to operate the milk car for example. I run the milk car to someplace on the layout where I want it to unload, then hit the power off on an insultated section where the engine is, and turn up the current to the track, which then becomes high enough to fully activate the operating car. Next time the train runs towards the front of the layout I can turn off the power to the operating car.

I realize my idea here isn't for everyone. I experiemented with the roller pickup and then using a manually operated trip to put ground power to the operating car, which worked fine and also eliminated the slide shoe. But I could only operate the cars at the spot where I had the ground power trip. That's when I opted for the on/off switch on the car, so the car can be operated anywhere on the layout. My layout isn't big so this isn't a big deal. And using the DC current makes this all possible. If I am running a postwar or MPC loco with an open frame AC motor, then I have to jump up to the A-U setting on my 1033, which puts enough current to the track to constantly operate any operating car, so that doesn't work as well. But even under that scenario, I have a yard track right at the front of the layout, so I can use these cars with a postwar/MPC type locomotive.

But that's how I do it and I actually like the method. You also don't get all the extra buzzing noise by using DC current to the operating cars, versus the normal AC.

BTW, I also use fish line and bicycle brake cables to operate some items. For example, I have a bunch of totally revamped cheapo Kickapoo type Lionel dump cars that I got at YORK super cheap... I have a bicycle brake cable going to a certain part of the layout near a dump bin on the outside edge of the layout board. When I park one of the revamped Kickapoo cars there (now done in Conrail, NS, CSX, PC, LV), I push the brake cable and the end part (with a rubber protector on it) comes up from out of the layout surface and operates the dump car, putting the load into the dump bin.

[Sturgeon-Phish]

Bob, That is a great idea!  The bundle along the hinge could be secured with the zip ties that afix to a surface.  I'll do this next time

Here's a hint to reduce flexing of the wires to a hinged control panel:  Run all the wires to one end of the hinged edge, then in a bundle parallel to that edge to the other end of the edge.  Fasten the bundle to the panel at one end and to the stationary part at the other end.  This way, the only flexing is a twist of the bundle through a modest angle when the lid is opened and closed.

This was the standard way of wiring telephone-switchboard keyshelves.