I just read the review of the NASCAR trainset in the new issue of CTT. VERY disappointing. I was planning on surprising my wife with this set for her birthday. But after reading the review, it would have been insulting to give it to her. The complaints were low pulling power, crappy graphics, downgraded transformer, and generally a "cheesey" set not worth the money. What amazes me is that Lionel would "cheap up" on a NASCAR item. I mean I KNOW that NASCAR fans spend MILLIONS of dollars on NASCAR merchandise without batting an eye. Dale Earnhardt fans are STILL spending thousands on his stuff and he's been dead since 2001!!! Lionel could have at least had one of their new TMCCII locos pulling this train and some cars with decent graphics and equipment on them. I'm sure they paid big $$$ to get the license from NASCAR to build this thing. Why skimp on the actual train? I like the suggestion CTT had for having NASCAR announcements instead of the low cost Trainsounds. It would have been cool to have a V8 engine sound like they had done on some previous Geeps they made. Maybe some "gentleman, start your engines" crewtalk too. One can't help but wonder what is going on with marketing at Lionel.
Dep
Virginian Railroad
Hello Deputy:
I am certainly no marketing guru, but I do not think the whole NASCAR series was directed to current Lionel customers. As Mr. Calabrese has pointed out in his interviews, Lionel is attempting to expand their marketing breadth. For the typical NASCAR fan, this set may be very appealing, time will tell. In reality, is this set any worse than the Polar Express set? Is your wife a big NASCAR fan? Has she seen this set? What does she think of it? As a non-participant in the hobby, she may like it because she has no basis of comparison.
It does make sense that Lionel would want to keep the product price down for a new untested market. That forces them to omit some of the pricier options. If they have success, maybe you will see higher end items get produced in the future. Remember that train manufacturers have had mixed results with cross promotional items in the past.
I do agree with you that some additional NASCAR specific touches would make the product more appealing to everyone.
Regards,
John O
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
johnandjulie13 wrote: Hello Deputy: I am certainly no marketing guru, but I do not think the whole NASCAR series was directed to current Lionel customers. As Mr. Calabrese has pointed out in his interviews, Lionel is attempting to expand their marketing breadth. For the typical NASCAR fan, this set may be very appealing, time will tell. In reality, is this set any worse than the Polar Express set? Is your wife a big NASCAR fan? Has she seen this set? What does she think of it? As a non-participant in the hobby, she may like it because she has no basis of comparison.It does make sense that Lionel would want to keep the product price down for a new untested market. That forces them to omit some of the pricier options. If they have success, maybe you will see higher end items get produced in the future. Remember that train manufacturers have had mixed results with cross promotional items in the past.I do agree with you that some additional NASCAR specific touches would make the product more appealing to everyone. Regards,John O
Yes, but it would also raise the price of the set. If you are going to (attempt) to branch off into a virgin market, then you must do your best to keep prices down. Chances are that most of the NASCAR fans that would buy that set would just display it on a shelf and never even run it.
Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.
DEP
Sorry I own this set and the loco DOES have pulling power ! A lot of starter sets as this one is, has the Power max. The graphics on the caboose were a blur as its suppose to be two cars crossing the finish line. The only thing I don't like about the set is the plastic trucks. Probably will see more of that with the cost of die cast climbing! Oh by the way I purchased two sets one for myself and the other as a gift for $75 each on a Christmas clearance. They sell all day long on Ebay for an average price of $150 + shipping. I consider that a fair price and I'm happy If you think its poor send a note off to Lionel........... All I know is that you can't always believe what you read and I'm happy with my set!
johnandjulie: Do you own any NASCAR diecasts? The detail on them is just plane amazing for less than $100. I don't and won't own a Polar Express set. Just not my cup of tea. But I did buy my wife the Tony Stewart addon set from Lionel and it was pretty decent.At least, nice enough that I was interested in the complete NASCAR train set. That was right up until I read the review in CTT. I'm glad I read it before buying. I can live with the plastic trucks, but the loco, at least the drivetrain in it, has to go. Maybe I can find just the loco for sale on E-Bay and take the shell off it and mount it on an MTH or Williams GP9. That would be a MAJOR improvement over the Lionel. As to keeping the product price down, do you know how much they had to pay for that NASCAR licdense? It was NOT cheap. MTH is willing to risk a Silver Bullet train...which is a VERR iffy gamble. Pretty much ANYTHING NASCAR sells well, so the risk is minimal. This Lionel set stinks of them trying to make a quick buck on the name alone. And trust me, if any NASCAR fan actually runs this set, they are NOT going to be a new Lionel customer.
njalb1: Don't shoot the messenger! I only posted what I read in CTT. They tested it and it wasn't even possible to make it go fast enough to leave the track WITHOUT pulling any cars. They said the rolling stock that comes with the set is very lightweight compared to similar cars. They said that the included set plus maybe one addon NASCAR set are about all the loco can handle. And this is with LIGHTWEIGHT cars!!!! The graphics on the tank car are TAPE that is wrapped around it. Sending notes to Lionel is like whistling in the wind. They have their "marketing geniuses" and they will do as they please. I'm just glad I read the review before I wasted the money. Like I said, I'll probably just buy the shell and mount it on a decent chassis from Williams or MTH. Then I can pull ALL the addons and not burn the dang tires or engine off it. Heck, if I get an MTH I can even record the "gentleman start your engines" line and other sounds from NASCAR and run it that way!!!!
FJ and G wrote:There's definitely a market for NASCAR in the hinterland ("real America"). Hats off to Lionel.
& thank you, Dave !!
DEP quote "The graphics on the tank car are TAPE that is wrapped around it".
I'm happy they did it this way as it now looks realistic Real crowds with real pictures
No doubt about it. I just hope the hinters don't ever put that train on a track and try and run it. Gomer and Goober and Aunt Bee will be pretty disappointed with it's performance
Deputy wrote: FJ and G wrote:There's definitely a market for NASCAR in the hinterland ("real America"). Hats off to Lionel.No doubt about it. I just hope the hinters don't ever put that train on a track and try and run it. Gomer and Goober and Aunt Bee will be pretty disappointed with it's performance Dep
Your right I used a magnifying glass and found Gomer, Goober, Aunt Bee, and Don Knots on my tank car and they all looked happy !!
njalb1 wrote: Your right I used a magnifying glass and found Gomer, Goober, Aunt Bee, and Don Knots on my tank car and they all looked happy !!
Just make sure they don't breathe too hard. Wouldn't want the heat from their breath causing the TAPE to come off!!!
Although I collect the higher end of Lionel, I did buy this set, and it has some POWER! The graphics are great, and its just a nice set in general, got alot of compliments about it and alot of "where can i get one" comments also. Although I love CTT, some of the articles in the past and present, really were off the mark including this one...BUT Buy what you like and want!
Mark
njalb1 wrote: Lionelking313 wrote: Although I collect the higher end of Lionel, I did buy this set, and it has some POWER! The graphics are great, and its just a nice set in general, got alot of compliments about it and alot of "where can i get one" comments also. Although I love CTT, some of the articles in the past and present, really were off the mark including this one...BUT Buy what you like and want! MarkThats the way I felt! and I also saw the power.......
Lionelking313 wrote: Although I collect the higher end of Lionel, I did buy this set, and it has some POWER! The graphics are great, and its just a nice set in general, got alot of compliments about it and alot of "where can i get one" comments also. Although I love CTT, some of the articles in the past and present, really were off the mark including this one...BUT Buy what you like and want! Mark
Thats the way I felt! and I also saw the power.......
I never understood the desire to run your trains full tilt and have them fly off the track! That to me is just plain nuts... you spend $200+ on an engine and you're going to destroy it by trying to have it fly off the track? Maybe, just maybe, Lionel realized people were doing this and that is why they included a lower powered transformer? Maybe it was the TRANSFORMER and not the engine that has the problem? I dunno but I read a lot of things that could contribute to the 'seeming lack of power'.I never run my engines at full power without a substantial load and then very rarely. If I have to pump 18Volts through the engine to get it to pull the load... I would rather take 2 or 3 cars off so the motors don't burn out! But running your engines full tilt so the engine flies off the track just doesn't make sense to me and honestly to me isn't a fair test of an engine's prowess... now if it can pull my house off its foundation at 10 volts... now that would be something to write home about... last I checked these were toys????
Lionroar:
You may be on to something! After going to a race, or watching one on television, NASCAR fans may be itchin' to put the pedal to the metal. Having a less powerful transformer may be very smart. I would be interested in hearing from CTT if they ran the engine with another transformer and if the performance of the engine was improved.
Anyway, from the smattering of responses, it appears that this set does have some appeal. While I am not a NASCAR fan, I am happy to see Lionel sell as many as they can. The more they sell, then the more money they have to develop new products.
who ever said running the trains at full tilt? I dont speed them to wreck them, I was pulling 29 boxcars, MPC and Postwar and the engine was as smooth as anything, and not struggling at a normal speed!
So MANY quarterbacks that grab the ball and try for a touchdown...only they are running the wrong way!!! The POINT about the train not being able to get up to a speed that would cause it to leave the tracks WASN"T to make it leave the track.The POINT was THE POWER to do this ISN'T THERE!!!!! CTT DID compare a previous GP38 that Lionel released (a 9-year-old NJ Transit GP38). I QUOTE "At 12 volts it was like a rocket pulling the same consist; I didn't bother to get it up to 18 volts because it would have flown off the test track". There...I hope that straightens the quarterbacks out and lets them run in the right direction
Magazines have been know to get bad samples. An unfavorable review of a bad sample in OGR put one small-run brass manufacturer out of business even though others who bought the same engine reported none of the problems OGR did.
If others on this thread aren't having any problems with the pulling power of the engine in the Nascar set, I would tend to suspect that maybe CTT got a bad sample.
Remember the Veterans. Past, present and future.
www.sd3r.org
Proud New Member Of The NRA
doug, you're just another in a long list of experienced and accomplished quarterbacks running the wrong way.
I admit I do get a chuckle out of this stuff. One person reads a review and goes off on a "Lionel Blew It" pot and pan tossing tirade.
Folks who actually own the set - Heaven forbid we should apply actual hands on experience here - step up and say "hey, I own that set - it's a good runner, strong puller, etc."
Nope you guys who own it are all wrong, because one guy read in a magazine that it's really this.
The funnier part is "you have to wonder what they are thinking in the Lionel marketinmg Department"
Ok, I'll take a stab at it;
They're thinking, "we're really good at this and we know our stuff"
It is recognized throughout the hobby that the Calabrese-era marketing at Lionel has been a series of home runs, including:
On top of that these guys are running the industry leading train company - and JC's previous experience was running the poster child for great cross-over marketing - Marvel comics.
Yup - you guys and the guys at Lionel are all worng - only one guy in this thread has it right.
really
just one
Don't confuse me with facts !
My mind is already made up.
What's this " buy a less powerful transformer so you won't have your engines fly off the tracks " comment I see all the time ? Good lord ... do those guys also buy a 4 cylinder car with no horsepower so they don't scream down the street at 120 mph ? If a person does'nt have enough common sense to keep the throttle back on a transformer or pedal off the floor in a car ..... duhhhhh ! As far as engine performance a transformer can screw up the response . Lousey or underpowered transformer can always cause sluggish or jerky actions . Some overload those starter units with all kinds of lights - buildings - cranes - and crap and suck the power from them ... then expect great engine response . Plus ... face it they don't put the best control system in them . They are just what Lionel says " STARTER SETS " with starter transformers .... usually plunked under a Xmas tree by most buyers . You know a little label on the box should tell them .... " ONLY INTENDED FOR USEAGE OF WHAT COMPONENTS COME IN THIS BOX " . " ANY EXTRA POWER REQUIREMENTS WILL REQUIRE A LARGER MORE POWERFUL TRANSFORMER " . They made 1 lousey transformer in what over 60 years that's the best darn track record I've ever seen ! ...And engines that old still running strong ! God love Lionel .... man if they fold we're sunk !!!!!! My pigs/hogs came for my stock car today ... my wife is still chuckling about them ... gotta put them in .... later guys .
njalb1 wrote:DisneyExpertProof So here is your Mickey Mouse test ! 13 cars with caboose Total weight pulled 11.56 pounds. MTH 1000 transformer !Nascar test results A+++++Pulled all the cars with no problems with plenty of speed I love this board its so much fun ! Took me over an hour to unpack and set up the test however it was worth every minute
Disney
Expert
Proof
So here is your Mickey Mouse test ! 13 cars with caboose
Total weight pulled 11.56 pounds. MTH 1000 transformer !
Nascar test results A+++++
Pulled all the cars with no problems with plenty of speed
I love this board its so much fun ! Took me over an hour to unpack and set up the test however it was worth every minute
I really don't understand post like this.... It seems to me that a number of people on this thread are waiting in the bushes to see a particular signature, and then its "DOG PILE"
C'mon guys, all he was doing was commenting on the review as posted by CTT. I had read the review and can't really find where what he stated wasn't anything that CTT hadn't already stated, he was pretty much paraphrasing and even quoting sections from the review.
If this thread would have had exactly the same statement, authored by someone else these types of comments wouldn't have occurred.
THERE IS A LOT OF ROOM FOR CONSIDERATION AND MATURITY AS I SEE IT
Don
Hi Don,
Maybe it was the negative attention getting topic that started all this?
I think it was a fun debate IMO
By the way I really did the test !
I don't know why some of you guys respond to this troll. I see few people (outside another popular magazine forum) who seem to derive so much pleasure from finding something from Lionel to b**** about as this guy.
Who cares if it has a <1lb drawbar pull? The cars it is designed to pull don't weigh that much. It's a STARTER SET. I have the set myself and it will pull 6 o27 madisons and the non-powered B & A units of my williams scale PA ABA setup. Without the B & A units (they're really heavy) it will pull lots more. Drawbar pull is way over 1lb on mine at least. I would think they'd have requested a 2nd sample before writing such a terrible review.
The truck mounted motors are not per se a drawback, unless it's made properly and doesn't lift the wheels off the track when pulling (like the K-line truckmounts do). If the wheels stay on the track properly, they are pretty strong pullers.
The "tape" on the tankcar is not tape, but shrinktube. It's also used on cars to make difficult graphics. To me, they've been better off with a small diecast steamer like the docksider, but that doesn't appeal to nascar people I'm afraid.
Lionelking313 wrote: who ever said running the trains at full tilt? I dont speed them to wreck them, I was pulling 29 boxcars, MPC and Postwar and the engine was as smooth as anything, and not struggling at a normal speed! Mark
Brent
Bob Keller
I just read the review on this set last night. Seemed to be like any other review, stating what the set was and how it performed.
On a related note - Wouldnt it be cool if Lionel did a nostalgic NASCAR set. With a Richard Petty, Cale Yarborough, Donny Allison, etc. cars. Dont know the real old timers in the sport, but if they did some flat cars with the classic stock cars of the sixties I'd be interested. With figures of Chris Economaki and the other broadcasters of the day. Include a little pit scene. Todays NASCAR doesnt interest me, too slick, not enough dirt and oil.
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