Lionel goofs (again!)

[Bob Keller]

And I think we'll end it on that note. Well said, Ben.

[ben10ben]

"IF Lionel is making locos that vary that greatly in performance from what is being tested and what the public is buying, that's also important information."

Like it or not, sample variation is a fact of life with any consumer good, and it tends to get even worse as items go up in complexity. 

In my other vice, um, hobby, it's a well known fact that you spend $10,000+ on a camera lens and still get a dud. This is true whether you're buying Canon, Nikon, or Leica.  I've heard it tossed around that, statistically speaking, you'd need to test seven different samples of the same lens in order to get a good idea of what can be expected. 

While trains aren't that complex, I think it's reasonable to expect that if one person has problems and several others report no such problems with the same item, perhaps the person who has trouble just got a bad copy. The evidence thus far from several who own/use/have handled the set suggests that it generally is a good puller. We have one example, the one tested for the magazine, which suggests to the contrary. 

Then we have a hard-headed instigator who attempts to write off the opinions of those who have in fact handled the set as just being those of a Lionel-loyalist who will think that anything Lionel has made is great. 

I think that any of us will readily admit that Lionel has made some crap in the past(LASER set, anyone?). It's just that the evidence so far suggests that this one is definitely not crap.

[dbaker48]

Thank you Don. Like I said earlier...I am just reporting what CTT said. I suggest folks READ the review THEMSELVES. Heck, everyone's entitled to their opinions...even CTT and me. IF Lionel is making locos that vary that greatly in performance from what is being tested and what the public is buying, that's also important information.

Dep

Dep.... 

Your post could have ended as shown above.  Seems to me the balance is pretty much just begging for trouble, and doesn't really provide any validity or merit to any of the other comments.  If your intent is to solicit a "revised" opinion regarding the review, so that you feel comfortable purchasing that set, your challenge is very hostile in nature.

 

[laz 57]

Me too I'm with YUZ GIZ,  I am not a NASCAR fan can't seem to understand why everyone makes only left handed turns and people go nuts over these things with restrictor plates and what not.  But if they came out with an oldie but goodie NASCAR cars I'd get em.  Heck I got all the ones that came out in Cherrios a few years ago.

laz57

[johnandjulie13]

Hello Paul:

I am with you!  I do not follow NASCAR at all.  However, A Richard Petty and a David Pierson expansion pack would be really cool!

Regards,

John O

[Deputy]

Thank you Don. Like I said earlier...I am just reporting what CTT said. I suggest folks READ the review THEMSELVES. Heck, everyone's entitled to their opinions...even CTT and me. IF Lionel is making locos that vary that greatly in performance from what is being tested and what the public is buying, that's also important information. As far as me being "anti-Lionel", that's pure BS. I posted the list of Lionel products I own and use, and the mods took it down immediately (worried it may embarass some folks I guess). Ask Marty...he saw it. I probably have more invested in ONE Lionel loco, than many of the people posting here have in their whole train setup. That's not bragging, that's fact. What people seem to overlook is I WAS considering buying the NASCAR set until I read the review in CTT. THAT is what changed my mind.

Mr. Keller: If there is ANYWHERE in my posts or any of the quotes that contradicts what was printed in CTT, please feel free to correct me. Since the review was only signed "Bob", can I assume that you did the review? Are you going to stand behind the testing you did or not??? Do you want to change what was printed in CTT? Do YOU believe you received a "lemon" from Lionel as some suggest, and that the testing may be innaccurate? If so, I'd sure like to know.

Dep

[SchemerBob]

I have the Chessie System GP38 from 2001 and it still works today. I have always thought of it as my most reliable puller...and mine didn't even have any sounds besides the horn. The NASCAR GP38 from what I see is the exact same model as mine. Except for the electronic horn being busted, my engine still runs fine after having it for 4 1/2 years. If the NASCAR GP38 runs like this, get it by all means. This is one Lionel engine that won't break. Just don't abuse it; it's not made to pull very heavy loads.

[dbaker48]

On a related note - Wouldnt it be cool if Lionel did a nostalgic NASCAR set. With a Richard Petty, Cale Yarborough, Donny Allison, etc. cars. Dont know the real old timers in the sport, but if they did some flat cars with the classic stock cars of the sixties I'd be interested. With figures of Chris Economaki and the other broadcasters of the day. Include a little pit scene. Todays NASCAR doesnt interest me, too slick, not enough dirt and oil.

Paul,

NOW THAT WOULD BE A NASCAR TRAIN !!!!!

DEFINITELY WOULD BE ON MY PURCHASE LIST, JUST AS YOU DESCRIBED IT !! 

[BMRR]

On a related note - Wouldnt it be cool if Lionel did a nostalgic NASCAR set. With a Richard Petty, Cale Yarborough, Donny Allison, etc. cars.

Paul, on this one I'll agree with you 100%.

Stan.

[Roger Bielen]

This is almost as good as the mud slinging that goes on in Washington!

[pbjwilson]

I just read the review on this set last night. Seemed to be like any other review, stating what the set was and how it performed.

On a related note - Wouldnt it be cool if Lionel did a nostalgic NASCAR set. With a Richard Petty, Cale Yarborough, Donny Allison, etc. cars. Dont know the real old timers in the sport, but if they did some flat cars with the classic stock cars of the sixties I'd be interested. With figures of Chris Economaki and the other broadcasters of the day. Include a little pit scene. Todays NASCAR doesnt interest me, too slick, not enough dirt and oil.

[Bob Keller]

I would suggest people read the review, not take as gospel an abridged re-telling of it designed to launch another round of bickering.

Like many things in this hobby, the reviews are one bit of information among many. The ultimate buying decision is your own.

[Anonymous]

who ever said running the trains at full tilt? I dont speed them to wreck them, I was pulling 29 boxcars, MPC and Postwar and the engine was as smooth as anything, and not struggling at a normal speed!

 Mark

Mark,
I was agreeing with you!  And adding , and adding some commentary!   Didn't mean to offend!

Brent

[daan]

The truck mounted motors are not per se a drawback, unless it's made properly and doesn't lift the wheels off the track when pulling (like the K-line truckmounts do). If the wheels stay on the track properly, they are pretty strong pullers.

The "tape" on the tankcar is not tape, but shrinktube. It's also used on cars to make difficult graphics. To me, they've been better off with a small diecast steamer like the docksider, but that doesn't appeal to nascar people I'm afraid.

[beefmalone]

I don't know why some of you guys respond to this troll. I see few people (outside another popular magazine forum) who seem to derive so much pleasure from finding something from Lionel to b**** about as this guy.

Who cares if it has a <1lb drawbar pull? The cars it is designed to pull don't weigh that much. It's a STARTER SET. I have the set myself and it will pull 6 o27 madisons and the non-powered B & A units of my williams scale PA ABA setup. Without the B & A units (they're really heavy) it will pull lots more. Drawbar pull is way over 1lb on mine at least. I would think they'd have requested a 2nd sample before writing such a terrible review.

[njalb1]

Hi Don, 

  Maybe it was the negative attention getting topic that started all this?

  I think it was a fun debate IMO

By the way I really did the test !

[dbaker48]

Disney

Expert

Proof

   So here is your Mickey Mouse test ! 13 cars with caboose

Total weight pulled 11.56 pounds.  MTH 1000 transformer !

Nascar test results A+++++

Pulled all the cars with no problems with plenty of speed

 I love this board its so much fun ! Took me over an hour to unpack and set up the test however it was worth every minute

I really don't understand post like this....  It seems to me that a number of people on this thread are waiting in the bushes to see a particular signature, and then its "DOG PILE"

C'mon guys, all he was doing was commenting on the review as posted by CTT.  I had read the review and can't really find where what he stated wasn't anything that CTT hadn't already stated, he was pretty much paraphrasing and even quoting sections from the review.

 

If this thread would have had exactly the same statement, authored by someone else these types of  comments wouldn't  have occurred.  

THERE IS A LOT OF ROOM FOR CONSIDERATION AND MATURITY AS I SEE IT 

 

[Anonymous]

 What's this   " buy a less powerful transformer so you won't have your engines fly off the tracks " comment I see all the time ? Good lord ... do those guys also buy a 4 cylinder car with no horsepower so they don't scream down the street at 120 mph ? If a person does'nt have enough common sense to keep the throttle back on a transformer or pedal off the floor in a car .....  duhhhhh ! As far as engine performance a transformer can screw up the response . Lousey or underpowered transformer can always cause sluggish or jerky actions . Some overload those starter units with all kinds of lights - buildings - cranes - and crap and suck the power from them ... then expect great engine response . Plus ... face it they don't put the best control system in them . They are just what Lionel says " STARTER SETS " with starter transformers .... usually plunked under a Xmas tree by most buyers . You know a little label on the box should tell them .... " ONLY INTENDED FOR USEAGE OF WHAT COMPONENTS COME IN THIS BOX " . " ANY EXTRA POWER REQUIREMENTS WILL REQUIRE A LARGER MORE POWERFUL TRANSFORMER " . They made 1 lousey transformer in what over 60 years that's the best darn track record I've ever seen ! ...And engines that old still running strong !  God love Lionel .... man if they fold we're sunk !!!!!!  My pigs/hogs came for my stock car today ... my wife is still chuckling about them ... gotta put them in .... later guys . 

 

 

 

[dougdagrump]

Don't confuse me with facts !

My mind is already made up.

[Frank53]

doug, you're just another in a long list of experienced and accomplished quarterbacks running the wrong way.

I admit I do get a chuckle out of this stuff. One person reads a review and goes off on a "Lionel Blew It" pot and pan tossing tirade.

Folks who actually own the set - Heaven forbid we should apply actual hands on experience here - step up and say "hey, I own that set - it's a good runner, strong puller, etc."

Nope you guys who own it are all wrong, because one guy read in a magazine that it's really this.

The funnier part is "you have to wonder what they are thinking in the Lionel marketinmg Department"

Ok, I'll take a stab at it;

They're thinking, "we're really good at this and we know our stuff"

It is recognized throughout the hobby that the Calabrese-era marketing at Lionel has been a series of home runs, including:

• Target, Home Depot and other mainstream retailers;
• Abercrombie & Fitch, Fortunoffs and other high end shops;
•  Nascar;
• Polar Express (was that pre-Calabrese?, not sure on this one)
• Harry Potter;
• Re-establishing a New York City presence;
• Placement of holiday layouts in prestigious high traffic locations;
• the NBC Nightly News story (which was Lionel-driven, you can be sure);

On top of that these guys are running the industry leading train company - and JC's previous experience was running the poster child for great cross-over marketing - Marvel comics.

Yup - you guys and the guys at Lionel are all worng - only one guy in this thread has it right.

really

just one

[dougdagrump]

In looking at the photos it looks like they used the small truck mounted can motors as opposed to the vertical. I have a Lionel L&N GP-38, 6-18819 I believe don't want to run to the train room to check, and it looks much the same but no sound other than the horn. It is an extremely good pulling loco, usually it is the roustabout on the ceiling track where I put some of the rolling stock that won't fit on the shelves. No problem at all moving around 15 to 20 predominantly scale size cars but I will not use it to move to many diecast. Operate yes, abuse no.  

[ben10ben]

Magazines have been know to get bad samples. An unfavorable review of a bad sample in OGR put one small-run brass manufacturer out of business even though others who bought the same engine reported none of the problems OGR did.

If others on this thread aren't having any problems with the pulling power of the engine in the Nascar set, I would tend to suspect that maybe CTT got a bad sample.

[Deputy]

So MANY quarterbacks that grab the ball and try for a touchdown...only they are running the wrong way!!!  The POINT about the train not being able to get up to a speed that would cause it to leave the tracks WASN"T to make it leave the track.The POINT was THE POWER to do this ISN'T THERE!!!!! CTT DID compare a previous GP38 that Lionel released (a 9-year-old NJ Transit GP38). I QUOTE "At 12 volts it was like a rocket pulling the same consist; I didn't bother to get it up to 18 volts because it would have flown off the test track". There...I hope that straightens the quarterbacks out and lets them run in the right direction

Dep

[Lionelking313]

who ever said running the trains at full tilt? I dont speed them to wreck them, I was pulling 29 boxcars, MPC and Postwar and the engine was as smooth as anything, and not struggling at a normal speed!

 Mark

[johnandjulie13]

Lionroar:

You may be on to something!  After going to a race, or watching one on television, NASCAR fans may be itchin' to put the pedal to the metal.  Having a less powerful transformer may be very smart.  I would be interested in hearing from CTT if they ran the engine with another transformer and if the performance of the engine was improved.

Anyway, from the smattering of responses, it appears that this set does have some appeal.  While I am not a NASCAR fan, I am happy to see Lionel sell as many as they can.  The more they sell, then the more money they have to develop new products.

Regards,

John O

[Anonymous]

Although I collect the higher end of Lionel, I did buy this set, and it has some POWER! The graphics are great, and its just a nice set in general, got alot of compliments about it and alot of "where can i get one" comments also. Although I love CTT, some of the articles in the past and present, really were off the mark including this one...BUT Buy what you like and want!

 

 Mark

Thats the way I felt! and I also saw the power.......

I never understood the desire to run your trains full tilt and have them fly off the track!  That to me is just plain nuts... you spend $200+ on an engine and you're going to destroy it by trying to have it fly off the track?  Maybe, just maybe, Lionel realized people were doing this and that is why they included a lower powered transformer?  Maybe it was the TRANSFORMER and not the engine that has the problem?  I dunno but I read a lot of things that could contribute to the 'seeming lack of power'.

I never run my engines at full power without a substantial load and then very rarely.  If I have to pump 18Volts through the engine to get it to pull the load... I would rather take 2 or 3 cars off so the motors don't burn out!  But running your engines full tilt so the engine flies off the track just doesn't make sense to me and honestly to me isn't a fair test of an engine's prowess... now if it can pull my house off its foundation at 10 volts... now that would be something to write home about... last I checked these were toys????

[Lionelking313]

Although I collect the higher end of Lionel, I did buy this set, and it has some POWER! The graphics are great, and its just a nice set in general, got alot of compliments about it and alot of "where can i get one" comments also. Although I love CTT, some of the articles in the past and present, really were off the mark including this one...BUT Buy what you like and want!

 

 Mark

[Deputy]

 

Your right I used a magnifying glass and found Gomer, Goober, Aunt Bee, and Don Knots  on my tank car and they all looked happy !!

 

Just make sure they don't breathe too hard. Wouldn't want the heat from their breath causing the TAPE to come off!!!

Dep

[njalb1]

There's definitely a market for NASCAR in the hinterland ("real America"). Hats off to Lionel.

No doubt about it. I just hope the hinters don't ever put that train on a track and try and run it. Gomer and Goober and Aunt Bee will be pretty disappointed with it's performance

Dep

 

Your right I used a magnifying glass and found Gomer, Goober, Aunt Bee, and Don Knots  on my tank car and they all looked happy !!