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My review of LIONEL 6-31750 New York Central Hot Box Reefer Train Set

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Posted by ChiefEagles on Monday, December 18, 2006 8:56 PM
Told you earlier, get CAB1.  I've been there.  I started with DCS.  Then got TMCC engines.  Got CAB1 and opened up a new world.  Run TMCC with CAB1 and MTH PS2 with DCS remote.  Run conventional with CAB1 and TPC.  You'll be happy.

 God bless TCA 05-58541   Benefactor Member of the NRA,  Member of the American Legion,   Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville Laugh,   KC&D QualifiedCowboy       

              

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Posted by Deputy on Monday, December 18, 2006 8:48 PM

 chuck wrote:
Which version of RailSounds?  Version 4 has an earlier indistict chatter version of crew talk.  Version 5 has audiable crewtalk.

Cripes Chuck...I dunno. It's a brand new set released in 2006. Here's the ad for it:

RailSounds sound system with CrewTalk communication TowerCom announcements and DynaChuff synchronized chuffing.

I looked in the catalog and it does say:

CrewTalk Communications(TrainMaster Command Control required)
This is the crackling radio communication inside your locomotive, caboose, and other cars. Operate several CrewTalk-equipped locomotives with CrewTalk-equipped rolling stock, and you will find that these messages are sequenced to sound as though personnel stationed at different parts of the train are radioing each other.

TowerCom Announcements(TrainMaster Command Control required)
 "1361, you're clear for departure." Locomotives equipped with TowerCom feature a specialized announcement or announcements from the tower to your locomotive. Many TowerCom announcements include your locomotive's roadname and number.

So maybe I do need the CAB-1 to hear or activate all the chatter.

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by chuck on Monday, December 18, 2006 8:38 PM
Which version of RailSounds?  Version 4 has an earlier indistict chatter version of crew talk.  Version 5 has audiable crewtalk.
When everything else fails, play dead
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Update
Posted by Deputy on Monday, December 18, 2006 8:27 PM

Hooked up the Lionel Command Base to the TIU and programmed the Mikado into the DCS handheld. AWESOME! Works PERFECT! I can really CRAWL it from a stop and the sounds are great when set to 18 volts. However, another problem has cropped up. Crewsounds. I get only ONE from the tender, and that's when the train does the "shut down" sequence on the DCS. And I am again having problems with what he is saying...even with 18 volts on the track. Is there more than one crew sound and how do you activate them? Or do I need the CAB-1 to hear all of them? And what the heck is he saying on shutdown????

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by ChiefEagles on Sunday, December 17, 2006 6:26 PM
 csxt30 wrote:

 Ole Timer wrote:
 If you're going to run the newest engines ... count on the newest transformers and controllers . So many make the mistake of trying to use their 1960 model transformer to get good results from the new digital electronics .  I had to plunk down mega bucks for the new setup .

I believe the old ZWs, with full sine wave, & properly maintained individual circuit breakers are still a perfect match with all the new electronics.   

John's right.  Got three Post War ZW's and two KW's.  Use fast acting circuit breakers and they will do outstanding jobs.

 God bless TCA 05-58541   Benefactor Member of the NRA,  Member of the American Legion,   Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville Laugh,   KC&D QualifiedCowboy       

              

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Posted by Deputy on Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:46 AM
 RR Redneck wrote:

I use a newer ZW transformer for when I want to have some real fun, but for for the small little loop of FasTrack I own, I use which ever transformer I happen to pull out of the closet.

That sounds like a good plan! Smile [:)]

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by RR Redneck on Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:15 AM

I use a newer ZW transformer for when I want to have some real fun, but for for the small little loop of FasTrack I own, I use which ever transformer I happen to pull out of the closet.

Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.

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Posted by Deputy on Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:03 AM

 Ole Timer wrote:
 If you're going to run the newest engines ... count on the newest transformers and controllers . So many make the mistake of trying to use their 1960 model transformer to get good results from the new digital electronics .  I had to plunk down mega bucks for the new setup . Remote control is the way to go ! Yea I know you paid many hundreds for that huge Lionel transformer .... so did I ... but she's out of date .  All I use my old style one for now are signals ... lights and etc. Went all digital and sold my pre railsounds engines .  That hot box car has to be the coolest one anyone makes ! Should be more digital functional with a remote though . Hey have you seen the bum playing the harmonica car ... my grandkids love that one ! Gotta get a infra-red sonsor or 2 now ... beats the heck out of my old weight sensitive clip on model ...you can even set the delay time like the real signals !

Agree with you 100% Ole Timer. I'm using the Z-4000 with DCS. Have to dig through my boxes and find the Lionel Command Base so I can make use of the TMCC on the Mikado. Haven't seen the bum/harmonica car yet. But I got a really neat 6-26858  Christmas Music Boxcar. Been waiting months to get it and it finally arrived last week. Takes a 9-volt battery and plays 12 kinds of Christmas music. Sounds really good. Doesn't need the transformer on to operate. Even if you just put it on the mantle to hear it in the background, it's cool.

Here's a pic of it:

http://www.mrtoys.com/lionel-christmas-rolling-stock/Lionel-Christmas-Music-Boxcar-6-26858.htm

The paint job on it is fantastic. DOH! I just blew my next review!!! ROFL! Laugh [(-D]

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by csxt30 on Sunday, December 17, 2006 8:23 AM

 Ole Timer wrote:
 If you're going to run the newest engines ... count on the newest transformers and controllers . So many make the mistake of trying to use their 1960 model transformer to get good results from the new digital electronics .  I had to plunk down mega bucks for the new setup .

I believe the old ZWs, with full sine wave, & properly maintained individual circuit breakers are still a perfect match with all the new electronics.   

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Posted by Ole Timer on Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:58 AM
 If you're going to run the newest engines ... count on the newest transformers and controllers . So many make the mistake of trying to use their 1960 model transformer to get good results from the new digital electronics .  I had to plunk down mega bucks for the new setup . Remote control is the way to go ! Yea I know you paid many hundreds for that huge Lionel transformer .... so did I ... but she's out of date .  All I use my old style one for now are signals ... lights and etc. Went all digital and sold my pre railsounds engines .  That hot box car has to be the coolest one anyone makes ! Should be more digital functional with a remote though . Hey have you seen the bum playing the harmonica car ... my grandkids love that one ! Gotta get a infra-red sonsor or 2 now ... beats the heck out of my old weight sensitive clip on model ...you can even set the delay time like the real signals !

       LIFETIME MEMBER === DAV === DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS STEAM ENGINES RULE ++++ CAB FORWARDS and SHAYS
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Posted by RR Redneck on Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:43 PM
Forget that, *grabs radio*, callin all trucks, we got a big blaze out on juction tower road.

Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.

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Posted by Deputy on Saturday, December 16, 2006 10:39 PM

Holy SMOKES Buckeye!!! (pun intended). Get the fire extinguisher!!!!! Laugh [(-D]

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by RR Redneck on Saturday, December 16, 2006 10:33 PM
Ha, my (now ex) girlfriend happened to walk into my train room when I was runnin it and doin my fire dispatcher impression.

Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.

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Posted by laz 57 on Saturday, December 16, 2006 8:39 PM
 Buckeye Riveter wrote:

Working perfect with TMCC.

Sign - Ditto [#ditto] Just got mine today and it is a big hit.  Played it about 10 Xs.  Even the wife came down to check out all the clatter, to see what's the matter.Wink [;)]

laz57

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Posted by Buckeye Riveter on Saturday, December 16, 2006 7:16 PM

Working perfect with TMCC.

Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum. Smile, Wink & Grin

Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..

Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR

TCA 09-64284

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Posted by RR Redneck on Saturday, December 16, 2006 6:24 PM
 luther_stanton wrote:

Deputy,

 The Lionel Hot Box Reefers are "da bomb" in my opinion. 

Well, not my choice of wording, but basically the same opinion.

Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.

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Update on Hot Box set
Posted by Deputy on Saturday, December 16, 2006 4:50 PM
I've been fiddling around with the volume on the hot box reefer as well as the track voltage...only WITHOUT the loco on the track. From the looks of things, this set REALLY needs to run under TMCC control. At 18 volts the speech clears and becomes very understandable. Only problem is at 18 volts the Mikado WILL go into orbit. So I need the TMCC or DCS to have the voltage UP, but keep the speed  DOWN. Well now I am pretty happy with this set. I did read the instruction manual, and sure enough, I need a 9-volt battery in the tender. That will solve the weird goings on with the chuff at slow speed. If anyone is thinking of grabbing this trainset, I give it the full 5 star rating. It shows off some really neat advancements in electronics that Lionel has made. One word of warning concerning the Mikados...the one in the NYC set IS set up for TMCC. But looking at the catalog, the other Mikados (UP and B&O) ONLY come with Railsounds...not TMCC. Something that some folks might want to consider before they buy.

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by johnandjulie13 on Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:07 AM

Dep:

Thanks for the review!  I am a big fan of Mikados (and NYC).  I may pick one up if I can find one at a "reasonable" price.  I recently purchased the Santa Fe Freight Premium set.  While I am also running this set in conventional mode, I found the RailSounds to be fantastic.  The sound quality is a little better than my MTH units.  I am curious if, after some adjustments, how you would now compare the sound?

Regards,

John O

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Posted by Jumijo on Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:44 AM

 Kooljock1 wrote:
"When all else fails, read the instructions!" Having said that, I saw this engine on the shelf at Charlie Ro last week, and it is spectacular for us non-scale types! Jon

Jon,

If you came down Route 93, you went right past my house! 

 

Jim 

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

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Posted by Kooljock1 on Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:30 AM
"When all else fails, read the instructions!" Having said that, I saw this engine on the shelf at Charlie Ro last week, and it is spectacular for us non-scale types! Jon
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Posted by Deputy on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:12 PM

 jefelectric wrote:
Dep, Thanks for the info.  I bought one of these on sale, but haven't taken it out of the box yet.  Now I know what to expect.  Electric RR offers a TMCC upgrade for this car, so that you can activate it whenever you want.  Might be worth the cost.

Hi John. You are gonna LOVE this set. The more I play with it, the more I like it. With the advice the guys gave above, it will be even more fun. At first I was a bit unhappy about only 2 pieces of rolling stock. But after looking at what was included as far as features, it's worth what I paid for it. It will be a great loco to use to haul around my traditional-sized cars. I think you may be right about getting a TMCC upgrade to turn off and on the features. That would be well worth the price. Here's what I got off their website:

Overview:
The Operating Hot Box Refer car is an awesome product.  Flickering lights, smoke, screeching, and crew dialog of a "hot box" emergency are simulated.  The Mini Commander adds unique play value by allowing the TMCC or DCS remote to control the operation.  The car is defaulted to off when track power is applied, thus allowing you to control when the "hot box" emergency is activated.

Cool Features:
    Easily trigger the action cycle anywhere on the layout
    Conventional operation and horn control is preserved
    Easy, reversible installation (soldering required)
    Complete kit with comprehensive instruction guide

Sounds like EXACTLY what I need. Here's their website:

http://electricrr.com/

Hope I don't get in trouble for posting that Dead [xx(]

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by jefelectric on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 8:56 PM
Dep, Thanks for the info.  I bought one of these on sale, but haven't taken it out of the box yet.  Now I know what to expect.  Electric RR offers a TMCC upgrade for this car, so that you can activate it whenever you want.  Might be worth the cost.
John Fullerton Home of the BUBB&A  http://www.jeanandjohn.net/trains.html
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Posted by Deputy on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 8:55 PM

WOW! This is REALLY cool!!! I am learning more about the set than I had any idea about. I confess to NOT reading the instruction sheet that came with the Mikado. So I didn't know about the battery thing. I kinda figured ALL the Lionel stuff was "track-powered". I'll look at those directions tomorrow and see about installing a battery. Chalk it up to me being anxious to see the train running under the tree Big Smile [:D]

I am happy as heck to find out the Mikado is semi-scale. The loco really does look beautiful. Here's a link to some pics I took of the train under the tree...

 http://new.photos.yahoo.com/deputyret/album/576460762366096418

Hope it works. You can double click on the photos to make them bigger. I must confess I was a bit hesitant about posting the review. I have posted some rather "controversial" posts that stirred up some pretty extreme reactions. I just wanted to let folks know about my personal opinion of this set is all.

Dave: The low speed performance of the loco seems okay to me. Using conventional control I am able to keep it pretty slow and still not freeze up. High speed...YIKES! It definitely seems like it has a LOT of potential to GO FAST. No way I would risk going above 14 volts on the transformer. My wife was keeping a close eye on it and she said "that loco is REALLY leaning in the turns!" That was at 14 volts. And these are 042 turns. 027 may be awful risky for tipping over at 14 volts. The loco runs VERY smooth as far as acceleration and stays pretty much at whatever speed you set it (on a flat track at least). I think it has a good amount of pulling power for it's size. There's enough weight there to prevent wheel slip in any but the most extreme loads. The headlight is VERY bright at any power. Tracking of all wheels was perfect.

If I can solve the chuf situation at low speeds, and get that dang hot box car audio to be understandable, this set would definitely get a 5 star rating. It fills a weird niche in the train world. It's NOT a "cheapy" set by any means. And it has a LOT of features on it for $430 (which is what I paid). Considering pretty much EVERY car on it has some kind of "action", it's a lot of bang for the buck. Smile [:)]

Dep

P.S. Thanks to EVERYONE who has replied. I certainly appreciate the help Thumbs Up [tup]

 

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by luther_stanton on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 8:20 PM

Dep,

I sure do run the car with all the bells and whistles, er, squeals on most of the time.

I have an around the room layout – about 9 feet on a side – or 36 feet of track. I can run almost two laps between triggers on the car. I also have a few semaphores hooked to toggles that I can throw – these act as signals for the trains to stop to pick up train orders. Every now and again I will throw a semaphore and manually stop to pick up the “orders”. Stopping will recycle the trigger time for the car.

Additionally, have an icing platform on a siding. When I get tired of the sounds I will switch the reefer to the siding and also run one or two operating ice cars through the icing platform. Sometimes I will switch the reefer in and out of the siding a few of times during a session.

I also have a gantry crane, stock yard and coal loader on separate sidings that are waiting to be installed. Once I have them in place I will have even more stops to reset the hot box!

I think you should be able to turn the sound down outside of a TMCC environment. If I recall there is an adjustment on the bottom of the car. I do not think it has the capability to have the sound set via TMCC.

“Cool down that hot box!”

 

 

Luther Stanton ---------------------------------------------- ACL - The Standard Railroad of the South
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Posted by chuck on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:09 PM

You do need a battery to run a RailSounds device in a non command environment.  Once the track voltage drops below 7.5 volts the sounds cut out.  Conventional mode also affects access to the full sound set.  Lionel did not want to get into patent issues with QSI so the sound set in conventional mode is limited.  Look for a volume control knob on the devices and set the volume knob to 80-90% setting.  Full volume will lead to distortion.

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Posted by 49Lionel on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:32 PM

Hey Dep - Thanks for a great review.   First - to answer you question, the mike is definitely semi-scale, although as you can see from this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USRA_Light_Mikado) it is a rather nice representation of a USRA light Mikado. 

Can you go into any more detail about the operation of the engine?  In particular, I've heard some concern about the engine's low-speed performance, and excessive high speed (too high gearing).

For the price it sure looks good - I just hope it runs as good as it looks.

Dave

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Posted by pbjwilson on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:03 PM

Nice review. In regards to the clack-clack-clack when starting up - did you install a battery , probably in the tender? Keeps the sounds going when track power is turned down.

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Posted by mpzpw3 on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:53 PM

First off, I would like to THANK YOU for the review. I wish everyone would do this when they purchase a new train, as a lot of us like to see how they work in the "real world"!

As far as I know, the Mikado in this set is semi-scale. It has received some pretty good reviews on the other forums. Just like the semi-scale berkshires from a few years ago, it is nice to see Lionel making some good, quality engines for the semi-scale market.

I hope you enjoy the set, and keep us updated on it's performance over the next couple of weeks!

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Posted by Deputy on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:35 PM

Hi Luther! Thanks for the reply. Hmmmm...you may be on to something with the the TMCC environment. I know the Crewsounds are powered by the juice running through the track and not by a battery like MTH. I don't have my TMCC hooked up on my under-the-tree layout, so I didn't have any way to adjust volumes. I do have the MTH DCS hooked up, but don't have the Lionel base connected for TMCC. Highest voltage I could use without going off the track was about 13 1/2. I will look into your suggestion and see if the lack of voltage is affecting the clarity. Actually, I also have the 6-29811  NYC Merchant's Dispatch Hot Box Reefer too. I REALLY like the Mikado. I still wonder if it's to scale or not. A great-looking engine with those shiny side rods. I am wondering...do you run the hot box a LOT with all the stuff turned on?? Doesn't it get to be a pain to keep stopping and going with it??

Yours,

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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