I bought this set to run under the tree for Christmas. It comes with nothing but the loco, tender, and 2 cars. Lionel lists it as a "Premium Train Set" in their 2006 Vol2 catalog. At $529.99 retail I can't argue with that. Of course, I didn't pay that price.
In the set is Lionel's new NYC 2-8-2 Mikado steam loco and tender, a REA Express "hot box reefer" and a NYC animated caboose. Let me start with the loco and tender. The loco is a real beauty. Not sure if it's scale size or not (I think not), but it has some nice details on it that make it stand out. It operates quite nicely on 042 turns, although it's advertised to go on 031 turns too. It has a nice "heft" to it and I suspect it can pull a good number of cars behind it.
Now for it's operation... I was REAL curious to hear the Railsounds. I had heard a lot of discussion about how great Lionel's audio system was, so I was curious to hear it in action. I am using the MTH Z-4000 transformer in conventional mode to run this loco. I eased the voltage up, and in Neutral, the light came on immediately and I heard the sounds of the loco sitting at idel blowing off excess pressure. EXCELLENT! Sounds really great! I dropped the power to 0 and then brought it up again. I wanted to see low speed performance so I brought it up nice and slow. While the light came on on the loco immediately, when it first started moving (at about 7.6 on the transformer readout), all I heard was a clack-clack-clack sound from the tender!!!! At first I thought this was some kind of "clack-clack" from the Railsounds setup to immitate the sound of metal wheels going over connections in the track. But at about 8.8 on the transformer, the clacking immediately disappeared and the chuff-chuff sound replaced it. Only thing I can figure is the chuff sounds needs a certain amount of power to make it operate. Perhaps using TMCC with the power cranked up to 17-18, this problem would disappear. But that would kinda screw the guys using conventional mode to hear low speed sounds. Oh well. I'm not a big fan of smoke, so I have no feedback on how much it smokes. The power rods on the wheels are VERY polished, so they look really good in operation.
Next I will talk about the caboose. I'll save the hot box reefer for last. The caboose is pretty cool. It has a train crewman on the back of it holding a lantern. After a certain period of time, the lantern lights up and the crewman leans out the side of the caboose to eyeball the hotbox situation. VERY cool...especially with all the house lights off at night. That lantern is REAL bright! The caboose is nicely detailed and well made. Color is tuscan red. I hope the motor that moves the guy in and out has a long lifespan. There is an off switch to disable the action, so you can run it with just the interior lights lit and no crewman action. I suspect that is probably how I will run it most of the time.
Lastly, we have the car that this whole trainset was named for. The hotbox reefer. First off, if you read a recent issue of Classic Toy Trains, you will know that Lionel "goofed" in their modelling of the trucks on the hot box reefer. The trucks they have do NOT get hot and spark. They are a more modern version that is made to NOT do that. Oh well...I can live with that. It IS a toy train after all. Now for then nitty gritty...the hot box reefer has 4 different "effects". #1 After making a loop and 1/2 around my 4X8 board, the little light located uner one of the trucks lights up. This is the first sign that the bearing are going in the car. If you continue to go the light gets brighter and brighter and starts flickering. A pretty neat effect. To turn off this effect you have two options. Stop the train. This resets the program and you have to make another 1 1/2 circuits of my 4X8 and it will start again. The other option is a small switch uner the car that turns the light effect off. Again, at night with all the lights off...pretty cool.#2 Next is the smoke effect. Again, I am not a big fan of smoke, so I didn't use this effect. According to Lionel, the longer you go without stopping, the more the smoke pours out. I'll take their word for it #3 The third effect is the bearings screeching. At randon times after the light starts flickering, you get the "bearing screech effect". It was nice, but I wouldn't want to hear it for a long period of time.#4 Finally, the train crewman effect. This was the WORST effect of any of them. When my wife first heard it she thought I had bought a "turkey car" with simulated live turkeys going gobbel-gobble-gobble. I was NOT amused. The crewman are SUPPOSED to be saying things like "Cool that spindle", "Something's burning!" and "We've got a blazer!". Well they must be speaking Chinese, because I couldn't decipher ANY of that from the garbled junk coming out of the car.
When I heard this mumbo jumbo I stopped the train and took all of it off the track. I had to find out if MTH stuff sounded like that too. So I popped open a brand new MTH GP-9 and put it on the tracks. After activating it on the DCS controller, I was greeted by what sounded like REAL communication going on. A SQUELCH BREAK(!) on the radio and then intelligible reports about a clear track. And another squelch break and reply. WOW!!!! Truly impressive!!!! I HOPE the Lionel locos with crew talk are better than this hot box reefer. Maybe Lionel just had to jam too much stuff in too small a space. Overall I give this trainset a 3-star rating out of 5 stars. The loco looks great as does the tender. Heck, the whole train LOOKS great...although a bit "dark" for those who prefer a colorful consist. I suspect I will be using this trainset as a "demo" for what Lionel can do with electronics. Otherwise, I'll have everything turned OFF. Stopping every minute or so to solve the overheating problem gets pretty tedious after a while. LOL....maybe they should rename this the "turkey express".
Dep
Virginian Railroad
Deputy,
The Lionel Hot Box Reefers are "da bomb" in my opinion. I run the heck out of mine. I have an older one from last year.
You really need to run that car with the smoke - that really sets the atmosphere.
I was surprised to hear that your sounds are garbled. Mine are rather clear. I am running in a TMCC environment at 16V so that may be a difference? One thing that I have noticed with some Lionel sounds is that if they are left a full volume there is a lot of distortion. Did you try at different volumes??
Thanks for taking the time to write up your thoughts on the set. I have been interested in the NYC Mike in that set, as I already have a reefer and the Lionel Lines version of the animated caboose.
Hi Luther! Thanks for the reply. Hmmmm...you may be on to something with the the TMCC environment. I know the Crewsounds are powered by the juice running through the track and not by a battery like MTH. I don't have my TMCC hooked up on my under-the-tree layout, so I didn't have any way to adjust volumes. I do have the MTH DCS hooked up, but don't have the Lionel base connected for TMCC. Highest voltage I could use without going off the track was about 13 1/2. I will look into your suggestion and see if the lack of voltage is affecting the clarity. Actually, I also have the 6-29811 NYC Merchant's Dispatch Hot Box Reefer too. I REALLY like the Mikado. I still wonder if it's to scale or not. A great-looking engine with those shiny side rods. I am wondering...do you run the hot box a LOT with all the stuff turned on?? Doesn't it get to be a pain to keep stopping and going with it??
Yours,
First off, I would like to THANK YOU for the review. I wish everyone would do this when they purchase a new train, as a lot of us like to see how they work in the "real world"!
As far as I know, the Mikado in this set is semi-scale. It has received some pretty good reviews on the other forums. Just like the semi-scale berkshires from a few years ago, it is nice to see Lionel making some good, quality engines for the semi-scale market.
I hope you enjoy the set, and keep us updated on it's performance over the next couple of weeks!
Nice review. In regards to the clack-clack-clack when starting up - did you install a battery , probably in the tender? Keeps the sounds going when track power is turned down.
Hey Dep - Thanks for a great review. First - to answer you question, the mike is definitely semi-scale, although as you can see from this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USRA_Light_Mikado) it is a rather nice representation of a USRA light Mikado.
Can you go into any more detail about the operation of the engine? In particular, I've heard some concern about the engine's low-speed performance, and excessive high speed (too high gearing).
For the price it sure looks good - I just hope it runs as good as it looks.
Dave
You do need a battery to run a RailSounds device in a non command environment. Once the track voltage drops below 7.5 volts the sounds cut out. Conventional mode also affects access to the full sound set. Lionel did not want to get into patent issues with QSI so the sound set in conventional mode is limited. Look for a volume control knob on the devices and set the volume knob to 80-90% setting. Full volume will lead to distortion.
Dep,
I sure do run the car with all the bells and whistles, er, squeals on most of the time.
I have an around the room layout – about 9 feet on a side – or 36 feet of track. I can run almost two laps between triggers on the car. I also have a few semaphores hooked to toggles that I can throw – these act as signals for the trains to stop to pick up train orders. Every now and again I will throw a semaphore and manually stop to pick up the “orders”. Stopping will recycle the trigger time for the car.
Additionally, have an icing platform on a siding. When I get tired of the sounds I will switch the reefer to the siding and also run one or two operating ice cars through the icing platform. Sometimes I will switch the reefer in and out of the siding a few of times during a session.
I also have a gantry crane, stock yard and coal loader on separate sidings that are waiting to be installed. Once I have them in place I will have even more stops to reset the hot box!
I think you should be able to turn the sound down outside of a TMCC environment. If I recall there is an adjustment on the bottom of the car. I do not think it has the capability to have the sound set via TMCC.
“Cool down that hot box!”
WOW! This is REALLY cool!!! I am learning more about the set than I had any idea about. I confess to NOT reading the instruction sheet that came with the Mikado. So I didn't know about the battery thing. I kinda figured ALL the Lionel stuff was "track-powered". I'll look at those directions tomorrow and see about installing a battery. Chalk it up to me being anxious to see the train running under the tree
I am happy as heck to find out the Mikado is semi-scale. The loco really does look beautiful. Here's a link to some pics I took of the train under the tree...
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/deputyret/album/576460762366096418
Hope it works. You can double click on the photos to make them bigger. I must confess I was a bit hesitant about posting the review. I have posted some rather "controversial" posts that stirred up some pretty extreme reactions. I just wanted to let folks know about my personal opinion of this set is all.
Dave: The low speed performance of the loco seems okay to me. Using conventional control I am able to keep it pretty slow and still not freeze up. High speed...YIKES! It definitely seems like it has a LOT of potential to GO FAST. No way I would risk going above 14 volts on the transformer. My wife was keeping a close eye on it and she said "that loco is REALLY leaning in the turns!" That was at 14 volts. And these are 042 turns. 027 may be awful risky for tipping over at 14 volts. The loco runs VERY smooth as far as acceleration and stays pretty much at whatever speed you set it (on a flat track at least). I think it has a good amount of pulling power for it's size. There's enough weight there to prevent wheel slip in any but the most extreme loads. The headlight is VERY bright at any power. Tracking of all wheels was perfect.
If I can solve the chuf situation at low speeds, and get that dang hot box car audio to be understandable, this set would definitely get a 5 star rating. It fills a weird niche in the train world. It's NOT a "cheapy" set by any means. And it has a LOT of features on it for $430 (which is what I paid). Considering pretty much EVERY car on it has some kind of "action", it's a lot of bang for the buck.
P.S. Thanks to EVERYONE who has replied. I certainly appreciate the help
jefelectric wrote:Dep, Thanks for the info. I bought one of these on sale, but haven't taken it out of the box yet. Now I know what to expect. Electric RR offers a TMCC upgrade for this car, so that you can activate it whenever you want. Might be worth the cost.
Hi John. You are gonna LOVE this set. The more I play with it, the more I like it. With the advice the guys gave above, it will be even more fun. At first I was a bit unhappy about only 2 pieces of rolling stock. But after looking at what was included as far as features, it's worth what I paid for it. It will be a great loco to use to haul around my traditional-sized cars. I think you may be right about getting a TMCC upgrade to turn off and on the features. That would be well worth the price. Here's what I got off their website:
Overview:The Operating Hot Box Refer car is an awesome product. Flickering lights, smoke, screeching, and crew dialog of a "hot box" emergency are simulated. The Mini Commander adds unique play value by allowing the TMCC or DCS remote to control the operation. The car is defaulted to off when track power is applied, thus allowing you to control when the "hot box" emergency is activated.Cool Features: Easily trigger the action cycle anywhere on the layout Conventional operation and horn control is preserved Easy, reversible installation (soldering required) Complete kit with comprehensive instruction guide
Sounds like EXACTLY what I need. Here's their website:
http://electricrr.com/
Hope I don't get in trouble for posting that
Kooljock1 wrote:"When all else fails, read the instructions!" Having said that, I saw this engine on the shelf at Charlie Ro last week, and it is spectacular for us non-scale types! Jon
Jon,
If you came down Route 93, you went right past my house!
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Dep:
Thanks for the review! I am a big fan of Mikados (and NYC). I may pick one up if I can find one at a "reasonable" price. I recently purchased the Santa Fe Freight Premium set. While I am also running this set in conventional mode, I found the RailSounds to be fantastic. The sound quality is a little better than my MTH units. I am curious if, after some adjustments, how you would now compare the sound?
Regards,
John O
luther_stanton wrote: Deputy, The Lionel Hot Box Reefers are "da bomb" in my opinion.
The Lionel Hot Box Reefers are "da bomb" in my opinion.
Well, not my choice of wording, but basically the same opinion.
Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.
Working perfect with TMCC.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Buckeye Riveter wrote: Working perfect with TMCC.
Just got mine today and it is a big hit. Played it about 10 Xs. Even the wife came down to check out all the clatter, to see what's the matter.
laz57
Holy SMOKES Buckeye!!! (pun intended). Get the fire extinguisher!!!!!
Ole Timer wrote: If you're going to run the newest engines ... count on the newest transformers and controllers . So many make the mistake of trying to use their 1960 model transformer to get good results from the new digital electronics . I had to plunk down mega bucks for the new setup .
I believe the old ZWs, with full sine wave, & properly maintained individual circuit breakers are still a perfect match with all the new electronics.
Ole Timer wrote: If you're going to run the newest engines ... count on the newest transformers and controllers . So many make the mistake of trying to use their 1960 model transformer to get good results from the new digital electronics . I had to plunk down mega bucks for the new setup . Remote control is the way to go ! Yea I know you paid many hundreds for that huge Lionel transformer .... so did I ... but she's out of date . All I use my old style one for now are signals ... lights and etc. Went all digital and sold my pre railsounds engines . That hot box car has to be the coolest one anyone makes ! Should be more digital functional with a remote though . Hey have you seen the bum playing the harmonica car ... my grandkids love that one ! Gotta get a infra-red sonsor or 2 now ... beats the heck out of my old weight sensitive clip on model ...you can even set the delay time like the real signals !
Agree with you 100% Ole Timer. I'm using the Z-4000 with DCS. Have to dig through my boxes and find the Lionel Command Base so I can make use of the TMCC on the Mikado. Haven't seen the bum/harmonica car yet. But I got a really neat 6-26858 Christmas Music Boxcar. Been waiting months to get it and it finally arrived last week. Takes a 9-volt battery and plays 12 kinds of Christmas music. Sounds really good. Doesn't need the transformer on to operate. Even if you just put it on the mantle to hear it in the background, it's cool.
Here's a pic of it:
http://www.mrtoys.com/lionel-christmas-rolling-stock/Lionel-Christmas-Music-Boxcar-6-26858.htm
The paint job on it is fantastic. DOH! I just blew my next review!!! ROFL!
I use a newer ZW transformer for when I want to have some real fun, but for for the small little loop of FasTrack I own, I use which ever transformer I happen to pull out of the closet.
RR Redneck wrote: I use a newer ZW transformer for when I want to have some real fun, but for for the small little loop of FasTrack I own, I use which ever transformer I happen to pull out of the closet.
That sounds like a good plan!
csxt30 wrote: Ole Timer wrote: If you're going to run the newest engines ... count on the newest transformers and controllers . So many make the mistake of trying to use their 1960 model transformer to get good results from the new digital electronics . I had to plunk down mega bucks for the new setup .I believe the old ZWs, with full sine wave, & properly maintained individual circuit breakers are still a perfect match with all the new electronics.
John's right. Got three Post War ZW's and two KW's. Use fast acting circuit breakers and they will do outstanding jobs.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Hooked up the Lionel Command Base to the TIU and programmed the Mikado into the DCS handheld. AWESOME! Works PERFECT! I can really CRAWL it from a stop and the sounds are great when set to 18 volts. However, another problem has cropped up. Crewsounds. I get only ONE from the tender, and that's when the train does the "shut down" sequence on the DCS. And I am again having problems with what he is saying...even with 18 volts on the track. Is there more than one crew sound and how do you activate them? Or do I need the CAB-1 to hear all of them? And what the heck is he saying on shutdown????
chuck wrote:Which version of RailSounds? Version 4 has an earlier indistict chatter version of crew talk. Version 5 has audiable crewtalk.
Cripes Chuck...I dunno. It's a brand new set released in 2006. Here's the ad for it:
RailSounds sound system with CrewTalk communication TowerCom announcements and DynaChuff synchronized chuffing.
I looked in the catalog and it does say:
CrewTalk Communications(TrainMaster Command Control required)This is the crackling radio communication inside your locomotive, caboose, and other cars. Operate several CrewTalk-equipped locomotives with CrewTalk-equipped rolling stock, and you will find that these messages are sequenced to sound as though personnel stationed at different parts of the train are radioing each other.
TowerCom Announcements(TrainMaster Command Control required) "1361, you're clear for departure." Locomotives equipped with TowerCom feature a specialized announcement or announcements from the tower to your locomotive. Many TowerCom announcements include your locomotive's roadname and number.
So maybe I do need the CAB-1 to hear or activate all the chatter.
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