I bought some 60/40 rosin flux core solder last night. It has flux in it as the name implies. I also picked up a 40 watt soldering iron for $7.99. It has a pencil point tip to it. All from Radio Shack. I guess it's time to learn how to solder.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Here is a website that offers a variety of solder products. It contains a note that is aimed directly at model railroaders, and which illustrates the concern about the temperatures involved in soldering.
In my opinion, ordinary solder works just fine for most toy train applications. For you TMCC guys, however, perhaps a good quality silver solder would provide a welcome increase in conductivity; but you must be careful to control the heat.
I have no financial interest in nor experience with this company:
http://www.solder-it.com/solderpaste.asp
I use a silver solder from Radio Shack for nearly all of my soldering work. What I use, I believe, is called "silver bearing solder," and contains about 3% silver. I believe it's 57% tin and 40% lead. It's comes in a very, very thin diameter which I find to be very useful. It can be twisted around wires and other places in such a way as to hold things in place, and then melted to form a very secure joint. It has a rosin core.
From what I can tell, the melting point isn't too much higher than standard solder. Although I generally always use a 100-watt gun, I have no trouble when I use any one of my irons, even my dinky little 15 watt one.
The advantage to silver solders is that they tend to be stronger than standard tin-lead solders. I have read before(although I don't know how true it is) that Lionel originally used a solder a lot like the one I use, with a small silver content.
Most lead-free solders I've seen are around 90% tin and 10% silver. These do have a very high melting point, and are generally very difficult to work with(at least in my experience).
Most plumbing solders contain antimony in addition to tin and a little bit of silver.
luther_stanton wrote: wolverine49 wrote: Contrary to what has been suggested above I doubt very seriously that plumbers use much "silver solder" unless they are working on their model trains. It is a very specialized solder product and you won't need it for toy train work, IMHO.Never recommended using silver solder - just letting people know it is out there. In fact, my comment about a high melting temperature was to point people away from anything with silver content, as it took a small iron forever to get it to flow. Also, I said I thought it may be used for plumbing as I had bought some once at Home Depot and it was in the plumbing section with the small hand held torches - hence the wording "Used in plumbing applications I believe". Just trying to share information with folks. Gotta be so careful what you say....
wolverine49 wrote: Contrary to what has been suggested above I doubt very seriously that plumbers use much "silver solder" unless they are working on their model trains. It is a very specialized solder product and you won't need it for toy train work, IMHO.
Contrary to what has been suggested above I doubt very seriously that plumbers use much "silver solder" unless they are working on their model trains. It is a very specialized solder product and you won't need it for toy train work, IMHO.
Never recommended using silver solder - just letting people know it is out there. In fact, my comment about a high melting temperature was to point people away from anything with silver content, as it took a small iron forever to get it to flow.
Also, I said I thought it may be used for plumbing as I had bought some once at Home Depot and it was in the plumbing section with the small hand held torches - hence the wording "Used in plumbing applications I believe".
Just trying to share information with folks.
Gotta be so careful what you say....
I use a hobby type Silver Solder found in most R/C airplane stores for soldering linkages or controls. Would also be great for guys experimenting in making some animations for our trains, like a swing or merrygo round. This is a more lower temp. type & of course not meant for soldering wires.
Thanks, John
wolverine49 wrote:Contrary to what has been suggested above I doubt very seriously that plumbers use much "silver solder" unless they are working on their model trains. It is a very specialized solder product and you won't need it for toy train work, IMHO.
A few things that I learned from Dad along the way with regard to solder.
-solder should flow to the heat, so don't actually touch the solder to the iron (except for tinning), let the temp of the object being soldered melt the solder- this lets you know the connection is good.
-heat sink, heat sink, heat sink. In many applications, the hemostats mentioned above, can be used to also position the item being soldered. So many of the electronics we use are heat sensative, that it is a good idea to protect them.
-one of the most heat sensative items are diodes, so always protect them.
-make sure that your connections are protected and insulated. Check to make sure that any beads of solder do not make their way to places you don't want them.
-check your connection before moving onto the next one. Especially when you are doing a number of connections, it is much better to check right away than to trouble shoot at the end.
and also do the points listed previously, make sure it is clean!
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Bob Nelson
jaabat wrote:I'll trade you something else for a backdrop and some trees. And you know what I want.
My Jersey Central Switcher? That's a fair deal - how many trees do I get?
jaabat wrote:How's that layout coming along, Frank?
slo as a gin fizz - why don't you treat the Mrs to a nice Florida vacation and come on down for a month? I'll trade you room and board for backdrops, painting and trees.
Jim, here is a link that will tell you more than you really want to know.
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm
jaabat wrote: 2500+ posts and you'd think the guy would know how to solder! Jim
2500+ posts and you'd think the guy would know how to solder!
well, since you brought it up . . .
Jaabat said,
Maybe I should by 2 spools?
NOW CUT THAT OUT!
Removing the lead from consumer products is a safety issue. Protecting us from everything (except terrorist attacks) is the prime purpose of our government. They sit up nights thinking up new things to protect us from. Just try to get a tasty burger in New York, and you'll understand.
You do want the government to protect you from yourself, don't you?
Jim (Jaabat)
Try this for openers.
http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/solder.htm
A little search on the internet will probably find better. Radio Shack may have a pamphlet on the subject.
I can't imagine a use for acid core solder around toy train equipment. ROSIN CORE is what you want.
Electronic circuit boards need low wattage soldering irons; soldering to track will likely require a higher-wattage gun.
A "heat sink" is a device to drain away heat from sensitive components. You can use them between the (proposed) solder joint and the electrical components; i.e., to try to keep the heat at the joint and not allow it to meander into heat-sensitive areas. There are commercial versions, but clamping pliers or surgical clamps (such as "hemostats") also work. Check with Micro-Mark if Radio Shack comes up short.
In theory, the "work" (the joint itself) should be gotten just hot enough to melt the solder. Melting the solder with the iron or gun and then dripping it onto the joint makes for "cold solder joints" which are bad and difficult to diagnose after the fact. In a phrase, it doesn't work.
"Tinning" refers to putting a thin coat of solder on the wires to be soldered (and the tip of the soldering iron itself) prior to actually making the joint.
Some solder sold today is lead-free, which is a safety improvement. Solder sold by Radio Shack and others for electronic work is what you want.
The melting temperature of solder makes a difference (lower is better around electronics) but how long the operator holds the iron or gun to the work is more important.
I use rosin-core solder and often add a little rosin paste flux, but I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy.
Materials to be soldered must be clean (shiny) and free from dirt, grease, and old flux.
Some metals, such as aluminum, will not accept solder except with very special techniques. Copper, brass, and even steel can be soldered, although steel is a bit iffy.
Ensure that the joint does not move until the solder turns from ultra-shiny to much duller (the color as it exhibits when cold on the reel or roll) during the cooling process. Don't rush it.
There are copper web-strips sold by the Shack and others that are supposed to "wick-up" excess blobs of solder where it has flowed where it is not wanted on the workpiece. There is no comparable product for skin! Ouch!
Practice your technique on some scrap until you gain some confidence. Soldering is not rocket science, however, so have at it!
lionelsoni wrote: . . . Lead will probably disappear from electronic solder before long.
sulafool wrote: jaabat wrote:Thanks, boys. I'll get the solder with flux and sleep easy.2500+ posts and you'd think the guy would know how to solder! Jim OUCH! Have mercy!
jaabat wrote:Thanks, boys. I'll get the solder with flux and sleep easy.2500+ posts and you'd think the guy would know how to solder! Jim
Thanks, boys. I'll get the solder with flux and sleep easy.
OUCH! Have mercy!
All in good fun, Fool. Now say uncle.
There is also water soluble flux. The kind I have looks like water, and has the advantage of no cleaning afterward. Those old postwar connections can be tough so flux away. Anyone else notice that the pw solder seems harder to melt than modern stuff?
Radio Shack did have some spools of silver solder.
Gold is where you'll find it, but you'll always find Silver under the Lone Ranger!
lionelsoni wrote:I've never heard of anything other than tin and lead.
Bob,
If you are referring to composition of solder, I think there is also silver. Used in plumbing applications I believe.
I've been re-working a number of post war trains (1947). I soaked the old solder up with a cleaning wick, but I'm having a difficult time getting the new stuff to stick to the old connections.
Is there something in the old solder that's preventing good adheasion?
Kurt
I admit I have become a bit of a flux fanatic. I mean, if a little is good, more would be better right? Anyhow, after both items to be soldered have been tinned and fluxed and soldered I'll end up with a little bit of flux residue, well maybe more than a little. What I use to clean this off is a toothbrush dipped in denatured alcohol. A little rubbing and as clean as a whistle..... or so it looks. There are limitations of course but this does work to clean the final product. Now the alcohol is flammable so you need to be careful about that. Maybe there is something else out there for this procedure.
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