CW-80 Transformer Experiences with reliability.

[Anonymous]

lionelsoni

Thanks, Bob. I don't feel quite as stupid as I did earlier.

As a general rule, I try to research questions and cite my sources. This next comment comes straight off the rumor mill.

I heard somewhere that there were serious translation problems between Lionel (Michigan) and the manufacturers in China. As a result all sorts of outrages happened. Mis-labled circuit boards, incorrect parts substitutions, backwards wiring -- you name it.

I don't know whether it's true, but it would explain a lot.

[lionelsoni]

There is no way to do it with a control rail that does not interchange the whistle and bell functions.  I don't have an easy way to draw the circuit that does interchange them; but this might do:

A or B or both---outside rails

U under A---center rail

U under B---one accessory terminal

control rail---other accessory terminal

(I think the fact that the designers labeled two terminals with different internal connections both "U", and two others with the same internal connection "A" and "B", so that we have to use the awkward terminology "U under A" and "U under B", is a hint that they were confused about what they were trying to design.)

[Anonymous]

lionelsoni

Bob,

Although I never took Circuits 101, I can draw up a circuit using A and U-under-A to power the track; and B and U-underB to power the gateman. If I use an infra-red detector to switch the gateman on and off, I can visualize it easily and it looks as if it should work.

However, if I leave out the infra-red detector and  substitute an inslated control rail, I keep finding a direct connection between U-under-A and U-under-B, which is a no-no if a CW-80 is wired according to the book so that the whistle button blows the whistle and the bell button, well, you know..

Could you draw a simple circuit showing how to do it with an isolated "control" rail without any cross connections between the two U posts? Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

I have had three Lionel CW-80 transformers, I have gave two of them away.

The only problem I had with them was I could not run Proto-Sound and Proto 2.0 locos.

Also had a problem with Fastrack remote switches.  Sort of a neat looking transformer.

good to run a small circle of track at Xmas. One of the problems is that the CW-80 has what is call

a Saw Tooth Sine wave. the older lionel ZWs have what is called a Pure Sine Wave.

[lionelsoni]

Whether wired with infrared detector or properly-wired isolated control rail, the accessory should not be affected by the track voltage or current, except that, a very large voltage drop on the outside rails (unlikely, and easily remedied) could rob voltage from an accessory using the control-rail-wiring version.

[Anonymous]

ChiefEagles,

A flashing green light on a CW-80 does not always mean a true "short circuit."

According to the Owner's Manual* (product number 71-4198-250 dated 11/05) under the section entitled Power-on Indicator, "The green light will begin to flash if you exceed the power limit of the Transformer."

It goes on to explain that the transformer will temporarily allow an overcurrent, but will gradually cut the output back to a safe level until the situation is corrected. Corrections include lightening the load (for example, removing a couple of cars) and/or cutting back on the throttle a bit. (Too much load and/or too much throttle for a given load equals overload.)

Just possibly, your initial CW-80 was performing as designed. As I have noted previously, the more you know about traditional toy train operations, the less you know about the CW-80, and I know from enjoying your many posts that you have a wealth of experience with toy trains.

Unlike the postwar transformers, there is no circuit breaker in the CW-80. The flashing green light indicates that the "fold-back" circuit is doing its job, but that the operator needs to take some  some corrective action.

*The Manual is available for viewing online or printing out at www.Lionel.com, Customer Service. There's a lot to be said for reading it.

[jimhaleyscomet]

. I haven't seen a lighted fastrack terminal section in a hobby shop yet.

Try Hobby Lobby.  Mine has them.

Jim H

[ChiefEagles]

Got one with my PE.  Worked great for a few days and then the ight would indicate a short.  No short.  Called Lionel as it had the code on the bottom of the trouble makers.  Lady shipped a new one with no problem.  Did NOT cut the cord as she said.  Will keep it and see if it will run lights on layout.  Never used the replacement.  Will use it for lights and etc too.  I am sure Lionel has correted the problem with the "coded" trouble makers.  If it works, use it.  If I was doing a downstairs Christmas layout with the Fastrack and PE, I would use the replacement. 

[Anonymous]

dougdagrump,

I suspect Bob (lionelsoni) has "nailed it" once again. A properly working CW-80 ought to have sufficient power to run any modest size train plus a gateman.

Instead of what has been suggested, another option would be to wire the transformer up "straight" and hook up the gateman to the CW-80's accessory posts: B and U-under-B. Re-program the accessory output until the gateman works reliably and smoothly.

Detect the approaching train, and energize the gateman with a beside-the-track detector or two. You need to be careful that no part of the accessory's ground circuit (the metal base maybe?) contacts the track, including the "cross-ties."

This option is easy,  it should work great, and operations will look sharp, but it will cost you a few bucks for the infra-red detectors.

It will keep the whistle and bell functions working as labled. Except for the "common ground problem"* this is a real opportunity to use one of the special features of  the CW-80 because you can adjust the accessory to perfect performance without affecting  the voltage to the track. The trains can go by fast or slowly --. it should make no difference.

*If you don't fully understand the "common ground problem" and it's work-arounds, I'll let Bob explain them.

[phillyreading]

I have seen a CW80 at my local hobby shop in Lantana FL so I know what the unit looks like.  Everey CW80 at my local hobby shop has a problem and is being sent back to Lionel, it seems like the CW80 does have some problems, maybe it was the first run or maybe some electrical parts are bad.  Any way I like two or four train transformers better, the old pw ZW's work better for me.

Lee F.

[lionelsoni]

The problem is probably not the voltage nor the current drawn, but the fact that the A and B terminals are actually the transformer's common.  To operate accessories from an insulated control rail with the CW80, you need to wire A and B to the outside rails and the U under the A to the center rail.  Then the U under the B becomes the accessory voltage.  Unfortunately, this change swaps the whistle and bell functions.  You can relabel them; or you can probably rewire them if you think you are up to it.

[EIS2]

I got one off of E-Bay for the temporary layouts and it has worked fine, so far. The only real frustration was trying to hook-up the gateman accessory. Wanted it to be track activated but never could get it to work properly.

I think the gateman requires a relatively high voltage to work properly.  If you are running your train in conventional mode, you may not be providing enough voltage.

Additionally, the gateman on my layout draws a lot of current.  The CW-80 may not be able to provide adequate power to run both the train and the gateman.

Earl

[Joe Hohmann]

I've had 4 in use for almost 2 years with no problems. On some engines, you need a lighted car on-track for the e-unit to work properly. Bashing them has been a train related hobby for some people. Joe

[riverrailfan]

I have two. One is from my PE when they first came out and the other is from my sons Thomas set. The one from the PE works fine other than the fan is noisy when first turned on for a few minutes. The other was just opened two days ago and works fine. The only question I have is do all the starter sets come with lighted terminal fast track straights now or just the ones with out lighted cars. The PE set came with no lighted terminal section but the cars are lighted so there is no need for it. The Thomas set came with it. With out it the engine will not switch directions with the CW-80. Also have other engines that will do the same thing unless the extra load is on the track to bring the voltage to zero when switching directions. I haven't seen a lighted fastrack terminal section in a hobby shop yet.

[traindaddy1]

I have one, a gift, that I have been using to power accessories and have had no problem. (If anyone is going to toss them out, please let me know where your dumpster is located!)

[dougdagrump]

I got one off of E-Bay for the temporary layouts and it has worked fine, so far. The only real frustration was trying to hook-up the gateman accessory. Wanted it to be track activated but never could get it to work properly.

[ADCX Rob]

I had 20 CW-80 transformers of all different date codes.

I sold 16 of the new ones on eBay last year.  Kept one to stay with the Polar Express, and the 2 used units I picked up on the cheap.  They all work/worked perfect(I tested every one before shipping out the eBay units) except one.

This CW (date code 0205) had a whistle button "stuck" as I tested it before shipping.  I kept it to dissect, it turns out the whistle button was actually too long, and a little filing of the bottom of the button where it contacts the circuit board switch corrected the entire issue, with good tactile feel on all three buttons.  It now works fine.

Don't throw away any CW transformers.  Inside every one is a pretty good power transformer that could have many uses around the layout.

Rob

[Anonymous]

RR Redneck.

Thank you for your prompt reply. I understand completely. Best of luck.

[MartyE]

I have 2 for more than 2 years.  Works just fine.

[EIS2]

I've had mine for two years with no problems.

[RR Redneck]

RR Redneck,

I'm sorry you are so unhappy with your CW-80, but could you be more specific as to what it will and won't do? Does the fan run? Is the green light on? What is the 4-digit number on the base? Will it run anything?Do you have a copy of the 12-page dedicated owner's manual? Does the direction button work? Whistle? Bell? Can you program the accessory terminals? Is the A post connected to the center rail, and U-under-A connected to an outside rail? Are you certain that there is no way the U posts are connected together, either directly or via a metal-base accessory or other comon ground. Are you trying to use O22 (or similar) switches and trying to drive them from the accessory posts? Are your problems constant or intermittent? Will it run some brands and not others? Has anyone attempted to repair the device? Have you substituted other transformers, and if so, with what results?

Maybe someone can help if you give them a chance.

The ---- thing has a tendency to over heat (or attempt to over heat). I have longer operating sessions than I used to use the older transformers then I switched when I bought my new sets, now I am back to running off two older ones. Two of them work better for me than two of the CW-80s. One ----ed me off when it did over heat, so I took it to the local rifle range and HAD A BALL!

 

[Mod note: How many times do you have to be told not to swear in our forum? Yes, damn and pissed are considered swear words.]

[Anonymous]

The CW80 has been discussed to death on ALL of the toy train forums, lists, and boards.

And because it has been such a topic of discussion in recent years, it's fairly obvious that something is amiss with that transformer--at least for a great many operators.  If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't see threads about it appear on suvh a regular basis, dating back to the time when it was first introduced and continuing to the present day.

I had two of them; now have just one.  The problems I had were many and varied, depending on what brand of locomotive I was trying to run (I operate all brands).  The one I kept will be used, if needed, to power accessories, but not for train power.  I just don't trust them, and have enough other transformers readily available here--Lionel, MTH, K-Line, MRC, etc.--so I don't need to worry about using a transformer that has lost my trust.

If you have one and you love it, great!  I'm just expressing my own opinion of the device.

[Anonymous]

RR Redneck,

I'm sorry you are so unhappy with your CW-80, but could you be more specific as to what it will and won't do? Does the fan run? Is the green light on? What is the 4-digit number on the base? Will it run anything?Do you have a copy of the 12-page dedicated owner's manual? Does the direction button work? Whistle? Bell? Can you program the accessory terminals? Is the A post connected to the center rail, and U-under-A connected to an outside rail? Are you certain that there is no way the U posts are connected together, either directly or via a metal-base accessory or other comon ground. Are you trying to use O22 (or similar) switches and trying to drive them from the accessory posts? Are your problems constant or intermittent? Will it run some brands and not others? Has anyone attempted to repair the device? Have you substituted other transformers, and if so, with what results?

Maybe someone can help if you give them a chance.

[RR Redneck]

The CW-80 is BY FAR, with the possible exception of the new Christmas set, the biggest piece of junk Lionel has put on the market. I own on and if I cant get rid of it in the next week, I am just going to throw it in the garbage.

[Jumijo]

We have several CW-80s. All came in different sets. We used one particular one for 11 months almost daily with not much to complain about other than it occassionally made Thomas and our Beep's e-units act wierd. Then one day, without any warning, I plugged it in, throttled up, and nothing. No green light, no trains moving. All that was working was the CW-80's fan. I took it back to the store and got another one no questions asked.

I like the CW-80's ability to activate modern sound systems like Railsounds, as well as air whistles. My post war locomotives ran fine with it.

I've since bought an MRC Pure Power Dual. It's very nice, but it will not activate a simple air whistle.

Jim

[jimhaleyscomet]

O.K. all, per request I have started a new thread.   I am curious to all you users out there.  Aside from dead out of the box, what experience have you had with the CW-80 after one month or more of operation?

I have two CW-80's I have been running for two years without incident. 

Here is what   wolverine49 said

"OK Jim, I'll play -- although it might be better to start a new thread. Keep in mind that one often sees 40 complaints for every accolade no matter what the subject....

I have crossed paths with 4 CW-80's. I bought one from a dealer, 2 from eBay, and one was given to me. I have given two of them away -- to a person I like. The two I kept are still running flawlessly.

The one that was given to me was said to be "bad." It worked some, but "never seemed to work right." I soon discovered that the accessory post had somehow been re-programmed to zero output, which I promptly corrected. Also, the gentleman apparently didn't understand that the throttle normally "lags" behind both the hand and the direction button, and that  instead of a circuit-breaker there is a "fold-back" circuit that causes the green light to blink and reduces the power when shorted or otherwise overloaded. I don't think he had ever seen the manual for it. I tried everything I could think of to finish it off, using it exclusively for two full weeks. Try as I might, I couldn't make it do anything wrong.*

So I sent it to a friend who has postwar stuff mostly but had just bought his first train with electronics and wanted a "modern" transformer with built-in whistle and bell control, etc. Despite my warnings to hook it up "plain and simple" initially, he put it into an existing setup where he managed to cross-connect the "U" posts, and heaven knows what else. It died as soon as he started it up -- no fan, no green light, no output at all. (I think he blew the infernal, nearly unreachable, 50 cent fuse. Or it might have sustained damage in shipping. Or perhaps it was defective all along, even though I couldn't find it.). So I sent him one of my "spares" which he tested and found to work perfectly, but in truth he hasn't given it any real use yet.

My two remaining ones are well into their second and third years respectively. Both are still performing perfectly. I use one almost every day; the second one somewhat less. My six year old granddaughter loves it. I do keep a 5-amp fast-acting fuse in line with the track. I have had a few derailments but have never blown a fuse -- the "fold-back circuit" has always worked as advertised.

Score so far: 2 complete successes; 1 apparent success but with insufficient data yet;  and 1 blown -- due to operator error, I believe.

And that's the truth!

For the record, my friend hand-carried the "blown" one into to Lionel's Chesterfield works. Of course he did not have a receipt from an authorized Lionel dealer, and it was certainly more than one year old. Lionel wouldn't do anything for him: no replacement and no repair at any price. Just an offer to sell him a new one at "list.". That's why I replaced it. I like to think my warranty is better than Lionel's. ">

*I had previously offered to return it to the nice gentleman who gave it to me if I were able to get it running, but he declined saying he really didn't want it because he was switching over to HO gauge or something. So my conscience is clear.  "