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getting started - using 027?

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getting started - using 027?
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 11:06 AM
I'm finally going to try and build a layout in the next year or so. Like most folks, I had boxes of trains as a kid and even managed to build a decent two-4X8 table layout back in the 60s. My question is this. Does it make sense to clean and reuse my old Lionel and Marx 027 track? I thought I'd get some of the larger radius curves for the new layout - but I could reuse the staights and switches (and even the 27" diameter curves out-of-sight). Any thoughts?? Thanks.
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getting started - using 027?
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 11:06 AM
I'm finally going to try and build a layout in the next year or so. Like most folks, I had boxes of trains as a kid and even managed to build a decent two-4X8 table layout back in the 60s. My question is this. Does it make sense to clean and reuse my old Lionel and Marx 027 track? I thought I'd get some of the larger radius curves for the new layout - but I could reuse the staights and switches (and even the 27" diameter curves out-of-sight). Any thoughts?? Thanks.
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Posted by Roger Bielen on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:33 PM
I would strongly recommend using O-gauge O31 as a minimum. When I got back into the hobby about 10 yrs ago I used my old O27, not being aware of the advances in the hobby. Using O27 limited my options in purchasing new rollingstock and engines. I've since buit a new larger layout using flex track with minimum O64 curves on one main and O68 on the other.

Good luck with your plans.
Roger B.
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Posted by Roger Bielen on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:33 PM
I would strongly recommend using O-gauge O31 as a minimum. When I got back into the hobby about 10 yrs ago I used my old O27, not being aware of the advances in the hobby. Using O27 limited my options in purchasing new rollingstock and engines. I've since buit a new larger layout using flex track with minimum O64 curves on one main and O68 on the other.

Good luck with your plans.
Roger B.
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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:06 PM
My thing is seeing how much I can get away with on O27. I run a Big Boy, a Trainmaster, and a 16-wheel flatcar, among other things. They all had to be modified, but surprisingly little; and for me that is part of the fun.

My objection to O31 is that the track profile is even more out of scale than O27. Although my tightest curves are O27, I do use O34, O42, O54, and O72 where there is room. They are all available in the O27 profile.

I have one main-line loop that is all O34; so any visiting O31 equipment can run there. For now, my 773 is confined to that track--until I figure how to get it through the O27 switches. If you are not familiar with O34, I suggest that you check it out. It was made by Marx and matches O27 track. You can find it without too much trouble at train shows and on the internet. You can recognize it in Ebay pictures by the 5 Marx-style ties in each 45-degree curved section. Marx made some very good switches for it.

I use almost exclusively K-Line 36-inch sections for tangents. This reduces the number of joints by a factor of 4.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:06 PM
My thing is seeing how much I can get away with on O27. I run a Big Boy, a Trainmaster, and a 16-wheel flatcar, among other things. They all had to be modified, but surprisingly little; and for me that is part of the fun.

My objection to O31 is that the track profile is even more out of scale than O27. Although my tightest curves are O27, I do use O34, O42, O54, and O72 where there is room. They are all available in the O27 profile.

I have one main-line loop that is all O34; so any visiting O31 equipment can run there. For now, my 773 is confined to that track--until I figure how to get it through the O27 switches. If you are not familiar with O34, I suggest that you check it out. It was made by Marx and matches O27 track. You can find it without too much trouble at train shows and on the internet. You can recognize it in Ebay pictures by the 5 Marx-style ties in each 45-degree curved section. Marx made some very good switches for it.

I use almost exclusively K-Line 36-inch sections for tangents. This reduces the number of joints by a factor of 4.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 2:42 PM
Umm, first off hi all.

Just wanted to post and say "ah-ha!" Though not by intention obviously, Lionelsoni, you've finally let me figure out what kind of track I have. I have a loop of it sitting out in my living room right now.

As for jjrva's original question, I'd say that I think O-27 is ok to use. It has enough curve radii to let you run most stuff. I'd say if you have enough salvageable track at your disposal, use that, but if you don't, you might want to check out the other systems first. There is the switch housing clearance to think of also.

-Stefan-

p.s. Is there a special place to introduce yourself, or do we just jump right in?
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 2:42 PM
Umm, first off hi all.

Just wanted to post and say "ah-ha!" Though not by intention obviously, Lionelsoni, you've finally let me figure out what kind of track I have. I have a loop of it sitting out in my living room right now.

As for jjrva's original question, I'd say that I think O-27 is ok to use. It has enough curve radii to let you run most stuff. I'd say if you have enough salvageable track at your disposal, use that, but if you don't, you might want to check out the other systems first. There is the switch housing clearance to think of also.

-Stefan-

p.s. Is there a special place to introduce yourself, or do we just jump right in?
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Posted by lionelsoni on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:24 PM
There is a "New Forum Members" topic buried a couple of pages down the list; but it is obviously optional. You are doing fine as is.

You are right about the switch machines' being a problem. One of the virtues of the better Marx switches is that theirs are much lower than the Lionel ones.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by lionelsoni on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:24 PM
There is a "New Forum Members" topic buried a couple of pages down the list; but it is obviously optional. You are doing fine as is.

You are right about the switch machines' being a problem. One of the virtues of the better Marx switches is that theirs are much lower than the Lionel ones.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by yellowducky on Thursday, September 25, 2003 7:51 PM
Hi, on my basement layout, I stuck with O27 because it needs less space to lay paralell tracks to make a siding or yards. I used O34(O27profile) curved sections in one corner, and wished I had in all 4. I think you will find that usually the first limiting factor in the length of any consit that can be run on any layout is the curve(s). Car weight and rolling resistence are 2 more. Sometimes drawbar pull of the engine (how big or powerfull) has little to do with the size/lengh of the train. I,m building an "O" layout for the kids (age 4 thur grade 5, and me too) during our midweek club I run at the church I attend. I plan on using O42(O27profile) on the mainline curves and O27 for sidings and a yard, with one highspeed passing siding using O42 switches(if I can afford 2). The best to you on your TRAINing. Frank
FDM TRAIN up a child in the way he should go...Proverbs22:6 Garrett, home of The Garrett Railroaders, and other crazy people. The 5 basic food groups are: candy, poptarts, chocolate, pie, and filled donuts !
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Posted by yellowducky on Thursday, September 25, 2003 7:51 PM
Hi, on my basement layout, I stuck with O27 because it needs less space to lay paralell tracks to make a siding or yards. I used O34(O27profile) curved sections in one corner, and wished I had in all 4. I think you will find that usually the first limiting factor in the length of any consit that can be run on any layout is the curve(s). Car weight and rolling resistence are 2 more. Sometimes drawbar pull of the engine (how big or powerfull) has little to do with the size/lengh of the train. I,m building an "O" layout for the kids (age 4 thur grade 5, and me too) during our midweek club I run at the church I attend. I plan on using O42(O27profile) on the mainline curves and O27 for sidings and a yard, with one highspeed passing siding using O42 switches(if I can afford 2). The best to you on your TRAINing. Frank
FDM TRAIN up a child in the way he should go...Proverbs22:6 Garrett, home of The Garrett Railroaders, and other crazy people. The 5 basic food groups are: candy, poptarts, chocolate, pie, and filled donuts !
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:06 AM
Hello all -

I'm going to jump in because this seems like a beginner thread. I am the most beginning imaginable. I got some O27 tracks & trains from our neighbor who's moving, and am trying setting it up with my 7-year-old twins. I've got a 1033 multicontrol transformer from 1950 or so. I found a picture of the thing on the net, but not how to hook it up. Wires are attached to the posts on top (why are there four?) and then those wires attach to what? Is there a picture of the whole setup somewhere, or an instruction manual?

See, told you I was the beginningest. Thanks for any help!

- Paul
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:06 AM
Hello all -

I'm going to jump in because this seems like a beginner thread. I am the most beginning imaginable. I got some O27 tracks & trains from our neighbor who's moving, and am trying setting it up with my 7-year-old twins. I've got a 1033 multicontrol transformer from 1950 or so. I found a picture of the thing on the net, but not how to hook it up. Wires are attached to the posts on top (why are there four?) and then those wires attach to what? Is there a picture of the whole setup somewhere, or an instruction manual?

See, told you I was the beginningest. Thanks for any help!

- Paul
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Posted by yellowducky on Saturday, September 27, 2003 6:18 PM
Originally posted by paulstark
[ I've got a 1033 multicontrol transformer from 1950 or so. I found a picture of the thing on the net, but not how to hook it up. Wires are attached to the posts on top (why are there four?) and then those wires attach to what? Is there a picture of the whole setup somewhere, or an instruction manual?]
Hi Paul, welcome to the forum. I have 2 type 1033, 90watt tranformers. One came with the trains my mother bought for my 3 older brothers and me when I was a couple /three weeks old. She still has the receipt, dated Dec.19th,1950. All it says is: "one train-$19.95". Now to your inquiry. The top plate tells everything if it is legible and explained! The 1033 delivers AC current through any combination of the 4 posts. 2 wires from the transformer are usually fastened to a LOCKON, which is clipped to the center and either outside rail. For speed to be controled by the black(right) handle, use the left post (U-with the posts away from you) and the 2nd or 3rd from left post. If the 2nd (post A) is used, a minimum of 5 volts increases to 16 as the left handle is turned from hor. to vert. If the 3rd (post B) is used, voltage will be delivered starting at zero, to a max of 11volts as the handle is turned. U and C (right post) deliveres 16volts only, when handle turned part way (this one tapers to zero afer that on one of mine). Wires from posts A/B (5 volts) , B/C (11 volts), and A/C (16 volts ) can be used for accessaries that use constant voltage. The orange (left) handle is spring loaded, and when the pointer at the top (away from you) is turned to the left, the voltage the black handle is controling, is momentarily interrupted. Turning the orange the other way will activate an on board whistle if the train has one (older ones, I don't know about modern ones) by throwing a DC voltage out, I think. Happy TRAINing. Frank
PS: Hope this helps, feel free to e-mail me if you have any other questions.
FDM TRAIN up a child in the way he should go...Proverbs22:6 Garrett, home of The Garrett Railroaders, and other crazy people. The 5 basic food groups are: candy, poptarts, chocolate, pie, and filled donuts !
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Posted by yellowducky on Saturday, September 27, 2003 6:18 PM
Originally posted by paulstark
[ I've got a 1033 multicontrol transformer from 1950 or so. I found a picture of the thing on the net, but not how to hook it up. Wires are attached to the posts on top (why are there four?) and then those wires attach to what? Is there a picture of the whole setup somewhere, or an instruction manual?]
Hi Paul, welcome to the forum. I have 2 type 1033, 90watt tranformers. One came with the trains my mother bought for my 3 older brothers and me when I was a couple /three weeks old. She still has the receipt, dated Dec.19th,1950. All it says is: "one train-$19.95". Now to your inquiry. The top plate tells everything if it is legible and explained! The 1033 delivers AC current through any combination of the 4 posts. 2 wires from the transformer are usually fastened to a LOCKON, which is clipped to the center and either outside rail. For speed to be controled by the black(right) handle, use the left post (U-with the posts away from you) and the 2nd or 3rd from left post. If the 2nd (post A) is used, a minimum of 5 volts increases to 16 as the left handle is turned from hor. to vert. If the 3rd (post B) is used, voltage will be delivered starting at zero, to a max of 11volts as the handle is turned. U and C (right post) deliveres 16volts only, when handle turned part way (this one tapers to zero afer that on one of mine). Wires from posts A/B (5 volts) , B/C (11 volts), and A/C (16 volts ) can be used for accessaries that use constant voltage. The orange (left) handle is spring loaded, and when the pointer at the top (away from you) is turned to the left, the voltage the black handle is controling, is momentarily interrupted. Turning the orange the other way will activate an on board whistle if the train has one (older ones, I don't know about modern ones) by throwing a DC voltage out, I think. Happy TRAINing. Frank
PS: Hope this helps, feel free to e-mail me if you have any other questions.
FDM TRAIN up a child in the way he should go...Proverbs22:6 Garrett, home of The Garrett Railroaders, and other crazy people. The 5 basic food groups are: candy, poptarts, chocolate, pie, and filled donuts !
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Posted by Kooljock1 on Sunday, September 28, 2003 5:12 AM
It's been a long time since I was a beginner, but I'll pass along what I've learned. One is that for me at least, O-27 track causes much weeping and gnashing of teeth. The track is flimsy, the rails slide off their ties, and the switches cause more problems than they're worth.

A long time ago I decided on using O-31 as the standard for my layout. Along with extra ties (from 3r Plastics in Nippersink, Ill.), ballast, and rust brown paint on the rails, it looks pretty darn good!

Having said that, I bought my six year old daughter the new New York Central Flyer set with FasTrack and the CW-80 transformer. I'd be sorely tempted to use FasTrack on my next layout. But this depends on the quality of the forth-coming automatic switches.

Jon [8D]
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Posted by Kooljock1 on Sunday, September 28, 2003 5:12 AM
It's been a long time since I was a beginner, but I'll pass along what I've learned. One is that for me at least, O-27 track causes much weeping and gnashing of teeth. The track is flimsy, the rails slide off their ties, and the switches cause more problems than they're worth.

A long time ago I decided on using O-31 as the standard for my layout. Along with extra ties (from 3r Plastics in Nippersink, Ill.), ballast, and rust brown paint on the rails, it looks pretty darn good!

Having said that, I bought my six year old daughter the new New York Central Flyer set with FasTrack and the CW-80 transformer. I'd be sorely tempted to use FasTrack on my next layout. But this depends on the quality of the forth-coming automatic switches.

Jon [8D]
Now broadcasting world-wide at http://www.wkol.com Weekdays 5:00 AM-10:00AM!
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 28, 2003 4:15 PM
thanks yellowducky and Kooljock1, and apologies to jjrva for horing in on his thread post. I think you've told me enought to try to hook things up. I'll let you know how that goes, and I'm thinking about the moving to a smaller size question.

Thanks again!

- Paul
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 28, 2003 4:15 PM
thanks yellowducky and Kooljock1, and apologies to jjrva for horing in on his thread post. I think you've told me enought to try to hook things up. I'll let you know how that goes, and I'm thinking about the moving to a smaller size question.

Thanks again!

- Paul
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Posted by Kaufu2 on Monday, September 29, 2003 2:41 PM
Jumping back to the original question, when you clean your O-27 track, make sure you clean the connecting pins as well, as these are what transmit the majority of the current from track section to track section. I also squirt electronic contact cleaner into the track sections where the pins go just to try to clean that up as well. And it can never be said enough ( maybe it should be put on a bumper sticker ) NEVER use steel wool to clean track. Depending upon the degree of corrosion and dirt, I use the Scotch Brite pot cleaners, ink erasers and denatured alcohol to wipe up after myself. Something like Goof Off, or Goo Gone also seems to work well. The cleaner the track, the better your trains will run.
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Posted by Kaufu2 on Monday, September 29, 2003 2:41 PM
Jumping back to the original question, when you clean your O-27 track, make sure you clean the connecting pins as well, as these are what transmit the majority of the current from track section to track section. I also squirt electronic contact cleaner into the track sections where the pins go just to try to clean that up as well. And it can never be said enough ( maybe it should be put on a bumper sticker ) NEVER use steel wool to clean track. Depending upon the degree of corrosion and dirt, I use the Scotch Brite pot cleaners, ink erasers and denatured alcohol to wipe up after myself. Something like Goof Off, or Goo Gone also seems to work well. The cleaner the track, the better your trains will run.
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Posted by yellowducky on Friday, October 3, 2003 6:38 PM
Hi, I just got a free sample of a Scotch-Brite(TM) Never Rust Wool Soap Pad. Not suppose to rust or splinter and 3 times the cleaning power of traditional steel wool pads. Wonder how it would work on rusted track? I don't think I would wet the soap. I personally know about Never, no NEVER! use steel wool within 100 feet of model trains! My older brothers (at least one of them) did. I got them out of the attic and tried to run the old set when I was in high school. I remember I spent quite a while with tweezers and a magnet on my Lionel magna-trak steam engine.

TRAINing, a learning experience.
FDM TRAIN up a child in the way he should go...Proverbs22:6 Garrett, home of The Garrett Railroaders, and other crazy people. The 5 basic food groups are: candy, poptarts, chocolate, pie, and filled donuts !
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Posted by yellowducky on Friday, October 3, 2003 6:38 PM
Hi, I just got a free sample of a Scotch-Brite(TM) Never Rust Wool Soap Pad. Not suppose to rust or splinter and 3 times the cleaning power of traditional steel wool pads. Wonder how it would work on rusted track? I don't think I would wet the soap. I personally know about Never, no NEVER! use steel wool within 100 feet of model trains! My older brothers (at least one of them) did. I got them out of the attic and tried to run the old set when I was in high school. I remember I spent quite a while with tweezers and a magnet on my Lionel magna-trak steam engine.

TRAINing, a learning experience.
FDM TRAIN up a child in the way he should go...Proverbs22:6 Garrett, home of The Garrett Railroaders, and other crazy people. The 5 basic food groups are: candy, poptarts, chocolate, pie, and filled donuts !
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Posted by MacGowan on Saturday, October 4, 2003 1:37 PM
I have a slightly different attitude about O27 track. I still have my original 1954 O27 set. Since 1988 I've gone into collecting and operating with a focus on only O27 engines and cars made between 1945 and 1959. On my layout, I strive for total retro, which means I use old O27 track., even with all of its problems. I carefully straighten it , clean it, and tighten up the pins (I do use many new pins). I've found the best way to clean old track is as has been suggested, using Scotch-Brite (TM) pads and sometimes Goo Gone. Another trick is a Dremel rotary tool with a stainless steel brush bit. It is fast and really cleans the aged gunk (wear eye protection and an apron because stuff - and bristles- really fly!). So there can be compelling reasons to use even old O27 track.
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Posted by MacGowan on Saturday, October 4, 2003 1:37 PM
I have a slightly different attitude about O27 track. I still have my original 1954 O27 set. Since 1988 I've gone into collecting and operating with a focus on only O27 engines and cars made between 1945 and 1959. On my layout, I strive for total retro, which means I use old O27 track., even with all of its problems. I carefully straighten it , clean it, and tighten up the pins (I do use many new pins). I've found the best way to clean old track is as has been suggested, using Scotch-Brite (TM) pads and sometimes Goo Gone. Another trick is a Dremel rotary tool with a stainless steel brush bit. It is fast and really cleans the aged gunk (wear eye protection and an apron because stuff - and bristles- really fly!). So there can be compelling reasons to use even old O27 track.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 7, 2003 7:47 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

My thing is seeing how much I can get away with on O27. I run a Big Boy, a Trainmaster, and a 16-wheel flatcar, among other things. They all had to be modified, but surprisingly little; and for me that is part of the fun.

My objection to O31 is that the track profile is even more out of scale than O27. Although my tightest curves are O27, I do use O34, O42, O54, and O72 where there is room. They are all available in the O27 profile.

I have one main-line loop that is all O34; so any visiting O31 equipment can run there. For now, my 773 is confined to that track--until I figure how to get it through the O27 switches. If you are not familiar with O34, I suggest that you check it out. It was made by Marx and matches O27 track. You can find it without too much trouble at train shows and on the internet. You can recognize it in Ebay pictures by the 5 Marx-style ties in each 45-degree curved section. Marx made some very good switches for it.

I use almost exclusively K-Line 36-inch sections for tangents. This reduces the number of joints by a factor of 4.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 7, 2003 7:47 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

My thing is seeing how much I can get away with on O27. I run a Big Boy, a Trainmaster, and a 16-wheel flatcar, among other things. They all had to be modified, but surprisingly little; and for me that is part of the fun.

My objection to O31 is that the track profile is even more out of scale than O27. Although my tightest curves are O27, I do use O34, O42, O54, and O72 where there is room. They are all available in the O27 profile.

I have one main-line loop that is all O34; so any visiting O31 equipment can run there. For now, my 773 is confined to that track--until I figure how to get it through the O27 switches. If you are not familiar with O34, I suggest that you check it out. It was made by Marx and matches O27 track. You can find it without too much trouble at train shows and on the internet. You can recognize it in Ebay pictures by the 5 Marx-style ties in each 45-degree curved section. Marx made some very good switches for it.

I use almost exclusively K-Line 36-inch sections for tangents. This reduces the number of joints by a factor of 4.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 7, 2003 8:10 PM
for lionelsoni-

I'm just curious on how your 773 actually looks going around 034 curves. Does it have alot
of overhang? The reason I ask, is that I'm considering switching to "O36" Atlas track (the
widest curves I can fit on my 40" X 8' Christmas layout, and am wondering just how "funny"
a scale Hudson would look on those curves (pulling 15" passenger cars). I don't own
any scale-sized stuff right now, but am seriously considering switching over from my
"traditional-size" items to scale pieces like the K-Line NYC Hudson ( or the 1990 Lionel 700E), among some other choice pieces.

I bought some of those Marx O34 curves on eBay a couple of years ago and was quite
surprised to find that they actually seemed better constructed than Lionel O27 track.
And even my Lionel 5405 "Baby" Hudson (pulling Baby madisons) looked alot "smoother" running through those curves than it did 27" diameter.

Thsnks in advance.

Jeff
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 7, 2003 8:10 PM
for lionelsoni-

I'm just curious on how your 773 actually looks going around 034 curves. Does it have alot
of overhang? The reason I ask, is that I'm considering switching to "O36" Atlas track (the
widest curves I can fit on my 40" X 8' Christmas layout, and am wondering just how "funny"
a scale Hudson would look on those curves (pulling 15" passenger cars). I don't own
any scale-sized stuff right now, but am seriously considering switching over from my
"traditional-size" items to scale pieces like the K-Line NYC Hudson ( or the 1990 Lionel 700E), among some other choice pieces.

I bought some of those Marx O34 curves on eBay a couple of years ago and was quite
surprised to find that they actually seemed better constructed than Lionel O27 track.
And even my Lionel 5405 "Baby" Hudson (pulling Baby madisons) looked alot "smoother" running through those curves than it did 27" diameter.

Thsnks in advance.

Jeff

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