RMT's Next Success Story?

[Anonymous]

Being from California looks like have to delay purchasing a couple Beefs and set of Peeps until they are offered in a western road name, 2007 maybe? Some suggestions would be a Southern Pacific Daylight Special, a Santa Fe Chief, or a Western Pacific/Rio Grande California Zephyr with domed Peeps. Oh, or how about a Las Vegas themed Special?

I’m still looking forward to an Air Force caboose to go with my two USAF Beeps.

Let me know so I can get my 2007 pre-order placed...

[Anonymous]

I think RMT should consider making a new 44 Tonner shell to fit on thier mechanism. These new Beefs seem to be new shells on the Beep mech. A scale 44 Tonner is exactly the same lenth as the Beep and there seems to be a lot of demand for a cheap one in 3 rail.Can't think of a name for this one.

Here are some funny ideas I got for other new super deformed shells along the Beep/Burp lines. Walter, if you want them thier yours.(I would love the Acela one)

-The Burp= A compressed GE U-boat
-The Weep=A compressed contemporary whisper/wide cab engine
-The Bella= A compressed Acela highspeed train
-The Snub=A compressed Subway

There must be more....

[1688torpedo]

Dave- I think that BB would like some A-1 Steak Sauce to go with her BEEF! [;)][:)][:D]

[Jumijo]

I can't make excuses for toy train companies making stupid business decisions. Nor would I want to. At some point, one would think that the voice of reason at your favorite brand would say "we cannot afford any more expensive tooling or fancy control systems". Any village idiot can see that what happened to K-Line was due in most part to leveraging too much on expensive development costs too fast. They didn't give themselves enough time to recoup investment funds before spending more on the next item. So why does that strategy continue with the survivors? I have no idea.

On the other hand, Williams and RMT seem to have solid business plans. They keep using what they already have to pump out good products at a good price. RMT creates demand with very low prices (I'll buy 2 at that price). Williams creates demand with low annual production runs (I better order one before they're all sold out). Wouldn't it be something if they are the big 2 in this hobby five years or a decade from now?

Jim

[Dr. John]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimhaleyscomet

I hope the shell is reversable like it is on the Beeps. That way you can purchase two A units and reverse the shell for an ABA all powered unit!

Jim H

I saw on another forum where Walter of RMT said that these units will have a switch to allow them to run ABA or AA without having to reverse the shell.

[phillyreading]

Craig N,
I haven't been to Strasburg in a few years so I guess they could have a diesel by now, but as I remember it was all steam powered locomotives last time I was there. I know that Strasburg is not too far off the Amtrac main line and I think the Pennsylvania Railroad museum uses Strasburg's tracks to bring in some new peices to the museum.
Lee F.

[brianel027]

Jaabat, you do make some good points above. And I do have a lot of fun redoing, altering and building my own train items. I have the ability to do so, but I've met a lot of folks who don't. Over the years, I've gotten countless comments of where did I get this Conrail, CSX or Norfolk Southern Alco FA or S-2? Folks really like these, but were I do custom do one for them, it would have to be at a price point they probably couldn't afford.

Now some related observations...
At one time Lionel was the third largest catalog maker in the world. Lionel trains sold in the millions. There's a good chance the the single unit sales at that time equaled the sales of many individual items today. Which means, although there were development costs back then, those costs stood a better chance of being made back on sales of that one single item.

Buyers were not as demanding or fussy years ago either. So an extended production run of one individual item was more practical and accepted. Today while there is a selection available unimaginable back then, many train buyers do not want to see the same items being offered over and over again in just differing road names.

And while the competition has driven the hobby forward, there's also been a liability. Tooling and dies can quickly become subpar on a detail level in only a few years time. An example of that would be the former MTH Premiere line up. So while the selection available to today's train buyer is superb, there is a cost. Look at all the new products develeoped by K-Line in their last couple years. Nice products for sure, but did any of them actually make a return on their development costs? Indications are that they didn't, at least not in such a short time span. And so now, no more K-Line (at least as a competitor).

Add to this the brand loyalty factor. "Well, I really like that engine, but I'm going to wait until my favorite company makes it." Or "Gee, company A makes that , so why can't company B?" And due to the seriousness of the competition, the companies are aware of this too... "Well, those guys are making a GP38-2 at this detail level, so now we have better also make one too." "Everyone else is making a Hudson, so we don't want to be left out so we had better make one too."

And just the fact that so many new train locos for example have list prices of around $400-$600 (and more), that to me seems to say that there's only a set number of people who will be buying these items. It appears to me that these are the same people who are always waiting for the next new thing. Which to me means that these new products stand even a smaller chance of making a return because of the limited sales potential and the finicky demanding nature of that audience for which these products are made.

All of this strikes me with some irony, because all of the companies in the years I've been back in the hobby have all talked about wanting to grow the hobby and introduce trains to kids again. Yet they can't afford to do the media advertising to make the products known to kids. So they rely on what I call the "Grandfather effect." It's an older adult who makes the decision to buy a son, grandson or nephew a train set. He goes to a hobby shop and he sees a starter set in HIS favorite road name, which gets HIM to buy the train set. He hopes the kid will take an interest in the trains. Which may or may not happen. But the kid might be more likely to stick with it if the trains looked like or were in road names that the kid is more likely to see today. Just as years ago when a new train loco would be on the real rails, the toy train makers rushed to get one made. They might have said Lionel Lines on them, but they were still in the paint scheme of the Union Pacific or whatever railroad they were copied from.

I suppose all of this is just a moot point. But while the bigger train companies are trying to figure out the next great advance in technology, fighting lawsuits and making products that appeal to a limited but established audience, here comes a little company called RMT who I believe really has the right idea.

And what affordable lower end item from any of the bigger train companies has generated the press, excitement, selection and even sales that the RMT items have? I would say the answer is "none."

Let that answer speak for itself when the other leading companies try to explain what they're doing to help make the hobby affordable and bring in new modelers.

[Jumijo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Can someone please tell me why the price of the motorized Beef is about the same price as a piece of "scale" toy train rolling stock without any motor?

I think we both know the answer to that question, David. People are willing to pay $70 for that piece of rolling stock, so that's what it costs. And yeah, part of the price goes toward paying off the development of other offerings.

Beeps and Beefs could be offered for $100 and I think people would still buy them. But at $65-$70, people think they are getting the bargain of the year and snap them up in multiples. RMT's development overhead must be considerably less than the big guy's, which means he can sell his products for less and still realize a good profit margin.

Jim

[FJ and G]

Can someone please tell me why the price of the motorized Beef is about the same price as a piece of "scale" toy train rolling stock without any motor?

[Jumijo]

I agree with Brian's disertations regarding the lack of new O27 equipment, and the fact that O27, tradional, non-scale, or what ever you call it probably does suppliment the funding of more expensive equipment's production costs. But innovations cost money to develop. Die casting, new couplers, smoke units, whistles were all once new technology and I'm sure that in their day, were expensive. I'll also bet that lesser items were priced to help defray their development costs. Progress, innovation and technology aren't dirty words.

There are a number of locomotives that are priced at or under $100.00. RMT has several. Walter has figured a way to recycle the Beep into a Beef, apparently by doing little more than changing the shell. Good for him! He has offered reliable products at an affordable price. Not everyone likes RMT's products. But not every one wants $1000.00+ toy trains either.

Instead of complaining, I say find something that makes you happy and start enjoying yourself. For instance, Brian talks a lot about the lack of his favorite road names being produced on rolling stock he likes. But I suspect that Brian actually enjoys repainting and relettering his rolling stock. I think he enjoys modifying locomotives to suit his desires.

My point is, there is room enough for all tastes and budgets in this hobby. There are products manufactured to meet most if not all of those markets. This is a great time to be involoved in O gauge railroading. Light years ahead of 1969, the end of the postwar era, when all that was available was left over junk.

Jim

[Anonymous]

"Would these units be considered "disposable?"
----------------

Sure! Anything is disposable if you have enough money laying around to replace it. At around $60 (per BEEP), I guess they are as "disposable" as a current issue Lionel, MTH, or Atlas boxcar, or some such item.

But I've had a few BEEPs since before there even was an RMT BEEP (in their contemporary form, they were first offered by Toy Truck Collector), and none of them have needed any repair work. They just keep on going, and going, and going.

[Anonymous]

Hmmmm? Two A units and four B units would give the illusion of a scale sized ABA combo with a curious centipede like wheel arrangement. I can imagine such a setup would be fascinating to watch on a praticularily twisty piece of trackage.

Since I assume the Beef mechanicals are the same as the Beep's can anyone comment on the performance of a 6 Beep engine lashup? With 12 cylinders of torque I'm betting a string of Beefs could pull just about anything you cared to throw at it.

Bruce Webster

[mitchelr]

I love my BEEP. Hope to find a Buddy when I have some more $$$ for trains. I'll have to be on the look out for some PEEPs and BEEFs too.

Mitch[swg]

[Warburton]

I agree with you all -- bravo to RMT! How about "Geezer" units for all us old-timers? They would sputter along down the pike, and every now and then stop and take a nap.

[Anonymous]

I bought 2 "Buddy" cars at York, and love them. I wish RMT all the success in the world...they deserve it. Great looking quality products, for very little money. Joe

[marxalot]

I'm going home and measure up my greatly loved Marx Monon A-A units. I think they are 22" overall which means this Beef unit at 10 " is right in there. I bet an A-B arrangement would look very nice. I see where both are powered too.

Jim

[johnandjulie13]

BTW,

Would these units be considered "disposable?" What would it cost to repair if one of these units broke down? It may be cheaper to throw it away and buy another.

Regards,

John O

[johnandjulie13]

Being a relative newbie here, I did not know what a BEEP was. I saw the CTT article on the RMT Buddy, but that did not do anything for me since I wasn't interested in running subway type trains.

However, now having seen the BEEP and the upcoming BEEF, I think they are cute. Which means they won't be part of my regular running rotation, but I think they would be great to put on a temporary layout (e.g. around a christmas tree), or great for my son to run. You just can't beat the price.

Regards,

John O

[FJ and G]

BB the beagle LOVES beef. WOnder if this would make a good chew toy for her. Oh my, seems she already chewed off the back end. [:D][:D][:D]

[FJ and G]

Good analysis as usual, Brian,

RMT sees a niche and gladly fills it. Hey, the American way in action [:D][:D]

-------------
Lionel, MTH and others, are you listening?

[brianel027]

I'm with Thor on this one. I have little doubt in my mind that the high prices from the major players are more due to overall revenue needed for the entire company than what it actually cost to produce lower end items. In other words the lower end products are supporting the higher end products.

Counting all the new higher end product introductions in the past few years - some of these companies have got to have millions of dollars invested in new development and tooling before anything has even made a dime. And given that many of these products have somewhat more limited appeal, the answer (???) is to raise prices on the entire product line in order to help offset the tooling and development costs. Which would be wonderful if there was any new tooling for us non-scale 027 guys. The last item was in 1995. It took a full decade for Lionel to introduce a new item that would have appeal to non-scale operators.

The big players are doing this in as much for their own egos and market domination as for any other reason. And they won't be happy until they've wiped eachother off the map. K-Line decided they wanted to rule the world, forgot about their original loyal customers and followed a business plan that quickly took them out of business. So much for follow the leader.

So here comes RMT with products that many will hold in disdain. But most of us traditional non-command operators are hardly rivet counters, so these things aren't as important. What's really nice is to see that someone is actally listening to us: and it ain't Lionel and it ain't MTH. Well Dang! It's companies like RMT. And Williams, and now even Atlas! Lo and behold, the company that makes some of the very best scale pieces now recognizes there's are market for traditional non-scale trains!

Thor me too... I have no interest in having the new Lionel or MTH catalogs. I'm tired of having to search through 150+ pages to find maybe 6-10 pages of trains that might interest me. And then to see the continuing price increases in these particular trains that have long paid for their tooling and development ages ago.

I give RMT a lot of credit in this department. And Walter must be a genius because he's even figured out that it makes sense to put some modern road names on his decent products.... something the minds at Lionel just cannot seem to figure out.

[jimhaleyscomet]

I CAN'T WAIT! I have 3 BEEPS and one caboose. I look forward to adding BEEFS and passenger cars.

I hope the shell is reversable like it is on the Beeps. That way you can purchase two A units and reverse the shell for an ABA all powered unit!

Who would of thought....A toy train manufacturer that builds TOY trains!

Jim H

[MartyE]

YUK...but that's just me. I guess they'd be good for a my kids or something but the beeps didn't do anything for me either. I do think RMT does fill a void.

[Craignor]

PhillyReading,

Relax, your Strasburg Plymouth is prototypical. I snapped this shot at Strasburg 4/16/04.[:)]

[Birds]

(clearing of throat...)

Woohoo!! Hoooraaaah!! Way to go!!! [:D][:D][:D]

I think these are a great size, length, and great price point. What a wonderful product to see brought to the hobby.

Can't wait until they show up.

Birds

[thor]

Never heard of RMT until that article in the magazine and a reference to their website at OGR. Excellent prices and just what I'm looking for, they and Williams are getting my money before I buy any Lionel. Sorry Lionel but theres way too wide a gap and your stuff is really wonderful but out of my price range for the most part. Pity but there it is. I can only hope some affluent family members take the hint as I send them Lionel catalogs!

[Anonymous]

I can easily imagine an entire layout based on these little beefers and beepers! Especially if layout space is an issue. Is smaller rolling stock in the works? I REALLY like the Army related products.
Greg
Long live the V&T, and ARMY C Rations.[;)]

[Anonymous]

I'll sure be buying those BEEFs and the PEEP passenger cars, just as I bought a number of the BEEPs and have a couple of BUDDYs. I'm gonna outfit an entire display layout with there cute little critters, and just have fun. The scale-oriented folks can do their thing, and more power to them, but these neat buggers are just the ticket for a whimsical, carefree, and fun-filled little pike that just about anyone can afford and enjoy.

[ChiefEagles]

Yankees will buy anything. [:0][;)] Got several Beeps to push hopper cars around. These will be interesting. Then you put in a Beep Commander with sound or Mini Commander with sound and you can contraol them with CAB1.

[phillyreading]

I just purchased & recieved a Rail Diesel Car from RMT and it runs great! The electronics in it have a three position F-N-R and you can also set the lights to stay on at one end or not along with turning off the reversing feature. Only have it three days and will see how well it does over a couple of years. Very affordable and looks great on 027 or GarGraves track, looks good next to a K-Line Plymouth switcher set.
The only thing about K-Line's Plymouth Switchers is that the roadname Strasburg for the Strasburg Railroad in Pennsylvania is not correct as Strasburg Railroad has only steam locomotives.
Maybe this will wake-up the larger companies making model trains that people don't want all the electronics on their trains.
Lee Fritz