DCS OR TMCC

[Anonymous]

I am looking to future here, but here's my question. I know there are those who prefer one system over the other and I'm sure both systems are great, but if you are anticipating mixing Lionel and PS2 engines as well as other mfgs does one system operate easier/and or better than the other. Thanks, Ralph.

[ChiefEagles]

BOTH.

[spankybird]

I agree with Chief, buy both.

DCS and TMCC command base with Cab1. Also be sure that you are using a pure sine wave transformer. By buying the DCS unit, you will save a lot of money on TMCC extra add ons.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your input. If I'm reading things correctly if you have PS2 engines then the DCS is pretty much a must and adding TMCC is beneficial when mixing engine mfgs.for getting the most of the engines functions. I have zero experience when it comes to command control and the latest electronics and appreciate this forum for all the information you guys can share. Thanks again. Ralph.

[laz 57]

What DA CHIEF said. BOTH.
laz57

[Anonymous]

I disagree. I would not buy both. The three rail segment of the railroading hobby seems to be the only that is willing to accept multiple control systems. This willingness is part of the reason that we have no standards.
I would pick one only. Right now I have only TMCC. If I were starting from scratch, and making a decision today, I would go with DCS. If I could affrod to wait 6 months, I would see what TMCC looks like. In the meantime, I would work on the layout.

[spankybird]

IN six months you will still only hear rumors of what TMCC might be able to do. Lionel still has not make an official statement of what they are planning on producing. How can you develop something without have a list of what you plan on doing [?]

[Anonymous]

I agree with your point Tom. I find Lionel's slow progress on TMCC 2 quite frustrating, hence the reason that I may jump to DCS.
However, defaulting to incorporating BOTH systems seems like we, as train conusmers, are saying "Sure! We'll buy anything you offer. Regardless of compatibility issues and additional cost."

[jonadel]

I started from the ground up with DCS and I love it. I will next add TMCC as I want to be able to run anything and everything, so many cool things out and so little time.

Jon

[dbaker48]

I thought DCS would run TMCC, which would include, Lionel, K-Line and Atlas. Is that wrong?

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dbaker48

I thought DCS would run TMCC, which would include, Lionel, K-Line and Atlas. Is that wrong?

It does, kinda of, you still need the TMCC command base. You can use the DCS remote, but should have the Cab1 for lash ups of TMCC engines, etc.

The things that you save is all the add ons the TMCC get you afterwards, TPC etc.

Remember the rumors of TMCC 2 has been around for over 1 1/2 years now. So when is Lionel going to step up to the plate and say what they are really building [?]

[nblum]

TMCC 2.0's feature set will probably be announced in July 2006 in about three months. The first products are due late 2006, early 2007.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Buy Both! Just think of purchasing the TMCC as buying an extra remote so you can control two engines (one TMCC, one DCS with its remote) at one time. If TMCC2 comes out then puchase it and you will have three remotes. Having extra remotes is easier then switching back and forth between engines to adjust speed. I often run one conventional (off ZW handle), one TMCC engine, and one DCS engine all at the same time. When they are heading at each other it is nice to be able to control the speed without having to select a particular engine. Just pick up the correct remote!

Jim H

[jefelectric]

Another vote for both. If you want to start with one, pick the one that will work with the most of your locos, but plan on having both. Also use the DCS wiring standard if you are just starting out.

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nblum

TMCC 2.0's feature set will probably be announced in July 2006 in about three months. The first products are due late 2006, early 2007.

And what is the link to the Lionel press release on this.

And what is the list of new features that TMCC2 will include [?]

[nblum]

Lionel, through Jerry Calabrese, has stated that a major announcement will be made at the LCCA meeting in Denver this July, and also stated clearly at the York meet that TMCC 2.0 will be in the next Lionel catalog, with a subway train and Big Boy to be the initial locomotives. In addition, papers filed with the Lionel bankruptcy court describe the joint venture between Lou Kovach and Neil Young's Creative Trains company and Lionel to deliver TMCC 2.0 (so named) this Fall. The feature set, described in the court papers, is still privileged information because patent filings haven't been made and the formal announcement will be in July.

Short of the actual catalog pages, that's good enough for me, press release or no press release. It's going to be at least eight months until any product shows up, so what's the ru***o hear the exact feature set? I'm curious, but not holding my breath. I'll probably wait until it's been out six to twelve months before buying it to avoid the usual teething problems. Remember DCS's introduction? Not exactly problem free, to say the least. I expect TMCC 2.0 might well be subject to similar teething problems in all likelihood. I'm not an early adopter ;).

[nblum]

The answer to your original question is that if plan to operate all manufacturers' locos, some in command mode, you need both TMCC and DCS. DCS is superior for controlling PS2 MTH locos, TMCC is superior for controlling Lionel, K-Line, Atlas, 3rd Rail and Weaver command locos with TMCC on board. In conventional mode, the TMCC conventional equipment (Powermaster, TPCs or new ZW) have superior low speed control than the TIU variable outputs, but the TIU is a cheaper way of controlling conventional locos that the Lionel TPCs or new ZWs. Since you're stuck with the TIU if you want DCS, you might as well use that for your conventional locos as well unless you find some that don't like the high starting voltage of the TIU variable outputs. One way or the other, it's going to be a little more complex and expensive than having one standard system, but that's the way it is.

[csxt30]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spankybird

QUOTE: Originally posted by nblum

TMCC 2.0's feature set will probably be announced in July 2006 in about three months. The first products are due late 2006, early 2007.

And what is the link to the Lionel press release on this.

And what is the list of new features that TMCC2 will include [?]

Tom ; So does that mean there's no press release yet ? Plus no clues to what it may do ?
Thanks,

[trigtrax]

So does that mean there's no press release yet ? Plus no clues to what it may do ?

There are videos on the Coil Coupler Website... Maybe some hints exist there [:D]

[ChiefEagles]

Some folks make me laugh. [:D][:D] Listen to Tom [Spankybird]. He has the experience and keeps up with this "stuff". Then you can run anything.

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trigtrax

So does that mean there's no press release yet ? Plus no clues to what it may do ?

There are videos on the Coil Coupler Website... Maybe some hints exist there [:D]

Is Coil Coupler a Lionel Press release or just an other rumor mill [?] [B)] [%-)]

Why does Lionel do it this way instead of a simple press release and list what they are planning on TMCC2 being able to do [?] [%-)]

[jonadel]

Tom--

Do you think it would be wise to wait for the new TMCC? I don't have any deadline as to when I will buy the TMCC to go with my DCS, probably this fall once it turns cold but it is something I want to do before Christmas.

I know this kind of like looking into a crystal ball but I just don't have any idea of whether to wait or just go ahead and make the purchase.

Jon

[jimhaleyscomet]

If I had current TMCC engines I wanted to run then I would obtain it along with DCS. TMCC is only $100 and it is worth being able to run TMCC engines in command.

Jim H

[nblum]

"Why does Lionel do it this way instead of a simple press release and list what they are planning on TMCC2 being able to do "

To answer your question, the Coil Coupler site does include the opinions of Neil Young, the co-developer of TMCC 2.0 and the developer of TMCC and related products. However, Neil does prefer to be somewhat mysterious in his approach, as many great artists are :).

The reason TMCC 2.0's capabilities have only been rumored is that this industry is so fractious and competitive that no one wants to announce anything really new until it is almost ready to be marketed.

Personally, I wouldn't wait for TMCC 2.0 because it might be delayed, and you'll have to wait at least until the end of this year, maybe early next year to see the product. If waiting is no problem, and the probably greater cost is no problem, waiting makes sense. Otherwise, I'd spring for the $100-120 for TMCC as now available, although I suspect shipments of new TMCC cab-1's and command bases may or may not occur in the future.

[spankybird]

Jonadel – if you are going to be waiting anyway, then what’s the difference, maybe TMCC2 will come out by the time you are ready to buy it. Personally, I wouldn’t wait if you wi***o run in command. The rumor mill has said that TMCC 1 will be upgradeable to TMCC 2. I don’t know if their would be a cost or not, maybe Neil knows.

Neil, I guess my point is that MTH announced back in 2000 what DCS was going to be able to do, and yes it took a very long 2 years for them to release it, but when they did, it did what they said it would do as they stated back in 2000. I was very surprised (and happy) that my PS2 engines from 2000 did every thing that MTH said it would do with DCS.

Being a design engineer, I don’t understand how you can design something without having a list of goals. And I also understand by not publishing your goals you are not committing yourself. If something doesn’t work, it was only a rumor. This is a very safe way of doing it.

[nblum]

In 2000 MTH was in crisis mode with sales plummeting and playing catch up to Lionel's technology in virtually every respect. They desperately wanted people to buy into PS2 and DCS, even though DCS was more than two years in the future as it turned out. Lionel isn't playing catch up, they are trying to re-establish a clearcut technology leadership with a fundamentally unchanged underlying system. The new system will obviously have many capabilities not in TMCC 1.0, and some not available in DCS. Otherwise, why bother? But why give MTH's engineers and marketers a headsup on what they need to work on next to keep up with TMCC 2.0? No one is going to drop DCS in anticipation of TMCC 2.0, and no one using TMCC is going to abandon it for DCS because TMCC 2.0 is still months or a year away.

Even four years after the introduction of DCS, Lionel is still the leader in terms of product in the field because of their six year headstart. So the purposes of MTH's announcing capabilities which did not exist, and Lionel's waiting until product release to announce the second generation of an industry leading system represent differing needs and strategies. Neither side has a clear technology lead now as Lionel did in 2000 (and 1996), although DCS is certainly more sophisticated and has more capabilities. The likelihood that TMCC 2.0 is going to win over significant numbers of "DCS only" users is small, and the reverse is even more true at this point is my guess. So each company is playing to a relatively small and fairly static audience. There aren't enough new people entering the hobby with a technical bent to have made the development of TMCC 2.0 an urgent issue until recently. At least that's the way I interpret the history and actions that have occurred.

[Anonymous]

I am new to the hobby and recently purchased a Proto 2.0 Pennsy Loco 2-8-0 configuration. I love it. I got it for $170.00. Is that a good deal? Anyhow, I can not understand how (first of all) you can have both DCS and TMCC and (Secondly) how could anayone aford both? Third qustion, how cheaply can one go digital (DCS) and will it work with Fasttrack? Fourth and final question with no life lines left, Should I sell off the three NON TMCC lionel loco I have aquired or will there still be value in the in the future?

I know I am asking alot of question but I got bad advice in the beginning and do not want to make more costly mistakes.

Bonus Question for $10,000 dolloras - Can the MTH Locosound locomotives be upgraded to DCS. Darn ebay and my impulsive buying...

[nblum]

" Is that a good deal?"

Probably pretty reasonable if it's RailKing, outstanding if it's Premier.

Anyhow, I can not understand how (first of all) you can have both DCS and TMCC and (Secondly) how could anayone aford both?

DCS and TMCC work differently and by and larger do not interfere with each other's operations. People afford both by either having excellent paying jobs or depriving their families of shoes and food. Actually, for most of the last ten years, TMCC has been available for about $100. That's pretty small change compared with locomotives. People buy DCS , for one reason, as you've learned, it's the only way to get the most out of PS2.0 locomotives.

Third qustion, how cheaply can one go digital (DCS) and will it work with Fasttrack?

DCS has a MSRP of about $300, but is routinely available for about $270 in many stores or online. That includes the handheld and the TIU, which is all you need to control PS2.0 locomotives. It will work with any sort of three rail track out there, including Fastrack, which is also true of TMCC.

Fourth and final question with no life lines left, Should I sell off the three NON TMCC lionel loco I have aquired or will there still be value in the in the future?

Value is subjective. Why not wait and see if you really ,really like command control, and if so, you can sell or convert these locos. If command control leaves you cold, you can hold onto them and sell the DCS instead :).

Bonus Question for $10,000 dolloras - Can the MTH Locosound locomotives be upgraded to DCS. Darn ebay and my impulsive buying...

Most locomotives can be upgraded to PS2.0 (which is what DCS controls), but the costs are substantial, around $200-300 which may or may not make sense for a Locosound loco. TMCC conversions are a bit cheaper, about $100 to $200 depending on whether you spring for the full sound, speed control package as well as command.

[spankybird]

It sounds like this is the engine that you bought.



If so, it is listed at $249.00 or comes from a RTR starter set at $349.00. I paided $150.00 for this one last Dec.

[Anonymous]

To everyone, thanks for the information. You guys are great!
Spankybird, my loco looks just like that one except for the Cab number. My loco has 9943. This may be the difference between Passenger sounds and Freight sounds.
Has anyone here looked at what Atlas is doing in HO.? I may have gone the HO route had I known what they were going to do. The newest locos come equipped with DCC and QSI sound. You can do all of the much more cheaply than in O guage. They also adhere to a standard from one manufacturer to the next. Just a thought.

Two clear advantages I see with O guage:
1. Size matters when you are getting older and do not see as well and 2. The smoke units