DCS OR TMCC

[Anonymous]

Anyone in here still run layouts with isolated blocks? Is this easy to do with O guage?

By the way,
I can not believe someone is posting nasty emails... Come on, this is train talk. Good grief Charlie Brown, have a conscience.

[csxt30]

Good work Chief !!

[ChiefEagles]

John, if he was born in May 1991 [see profile], he is not old enough to be a PI. Guess I'll call my Texican buddies and check his license. [;)]

[csxt30]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RR Redneck

Screw DCS, get Lionel, it is better.

Come on CTT, It's about time to ban this 15 year old ! In my opinion ! I have a son & grandchildren reading these posts & I don't think it helps the hobby with this kind of language . The adults don't even use this kind of talk here.
AND RR, DON'T DARE SEND ME A NASTY EMAIL AGAIN !

[Anonymous]

[%-)][:)].......Hi Eric........ I gota question for you. If you owned a Z 4000 that's running 2 mth engines and 1 lionel conventional engine and wanted to get a DCS or TMCC system which one would you choose? The reason that I am asking is that I am fairly new with o guage and I see that you have so much more experience that I have in this matter. I would like to hear from you of what your thoughts are. Here is a picture of my engines.[img.nr]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6db39b3127cce89160933d92d00000016100ActG7Ru0ZsWJg[/img.nr]

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RR Redneck

Screw DCS, get Lionel, it is better.

Maybe you should review all the features of DCS and tell me how TMCC is better [?]

But then at your age I can understand how little you really know [8D]

[MartyE]

Bottom line in my book and I have both...if you want to get the most out of your Lionel TMCC equiped get TMCC. If you want the most out of your PS2s get DCS. If your looking to find out which engines to buy... I say both.

[Anonymous]

Screw DCS, get Lionel, it is better.

[ChiefEagles]

Like I said earlier. Buy both. After two + years of running them, I find that the DCS runs PS2 enignes great and the CAB1 runs TMCC engines great. I will say, the CAB1 does run conventional [with the Lionel TPC, which you do not have to buy with DCS] better than the DCS remote. When using the TPC and CAB1, the boost and brake buttons raise and lower the voltage on "notch" so you can fine tune speeds. Also the air whistles seem to blow better. When I used DCS to run conventionals, I just used the fixed voltage and the transformer handles and buttons to operate them. Ran fine. I started with DCS and saved the $$$ and then bought the TMCC and CAB1. Now I have added the TPC.

[1688torpedo]

My Command system consists of one of Two Transformers: A 275 Watt ZW or a Type V 150 Watt Trainmaster Trainsformers as I've both in my collection. I used a V as a kid to run my Trains & had as much fun then as now. Never understood the rush for the latests & greatests when it comes to Command Control & Electronics in Trains today. Especially after reading about how annoying the sounds are after a while if you run two or three trains at a time. Or, Electronics that give up the Ghost after a short or at worse a Fire! If I want a fire on my layout; I'll build a minature Fireplace for it & not have some electronic gizmo start one! Take Care all

[nblum]

I think it's simpler than folks realize Bob. If you have primarily conventional locos and just want a remote, either system works fine, with TMCC having superior conventional control, unless you're using PS2 locos, in which case DCS makes better conventional control for PS2 locos. If you have primarily PS2/MTH locos to be operated in command mode, it's DCS, obviously. If you have primarily TMCC command locos from Lionel, Atlas, Weaver, K-Line, 3rd Rail, it's TMCC all the way, and, if you have the patience, perhaps wait a year or so for the TMCC 2.0 (Legacy) system to be introduced and consumer tested.

[Bob Keller]

Seems like Excedrin Headache No. 42: Which Command system to buy?

Glad I keep a big bottle of Wal-Mart asprin in my desk. Oh, and a bottle of Nexium, too.

[Anonymous]

"I know this kind of like looking into a crystal ball but I just don't have any idea of whether to wait or just go ahead and make the purchase."
----------------

No point at all in making the purchase now. Wait until the stuff comes out and goes through a bit of "field testing" by actual operators. Then make your decision. I'm not sure even Lionel knows what the features are going to be, since they don't seem to be able to list all of them in one succinct list with any degree of certainty.

[Anonymous]

Since I started buying MTH Proto engines I went with the DCS system. I was also told that the DCS would run any TMCC engines that I might buy.

After setting up the DCS system and buying the TMCC Command Base, I found that I could indeed run the TMCC engines. It is a hassle to do this and I eventually bought a Cab1 controller for my TMCC engines. Much better result.

Steve Tapper
Northern Central High Railers

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by duamau

Are not airlplanes a less expensive hobby - or maybe dolls. I am confused!

Just kidding of course. So I can upgrade an MTH Locosounds loco to PS2. Can this be donse cost effectively? Anyone out there intrested in being paid to do so? I will even barter some lionel locos in exchange.

IMO No it's not cost effective. An upgrage kit may cost you about $150.00 and another on$125.00 or so to have it installed. I only paid $$150.00 for the RTR engine that I posted above.

[Anonymous]

Are not airlplanes a less expensive hobby - or maybe dolls. I am confused!

Just kidding of course. So I can upgrade an MTH Locosounds loco to PS2. Can this be donse cost effectively? Anyone out there intrested in being paid to do so? I will even barter some lionel locos in exchange.

[ChiefEagles]

I can do the TMCC upgrade at half the price of DCS. Send me the check. [;)]

[spankybird]

Chief - he was asking if it could be upgraded to DCS not TMCC

and the answer is

YES

It can be up graded to either.


So send the $10,000 my way ! ! !

BTW - you won't like the price of the upgrade.

[ChiefEagles]

QUOTE: Originally posted by duamau

Anyhow, I can not understand how (first of all) you can have both DCS and TMCC and (Secondly) how could anayone aford both?

Bonus Question for $10,000 dolloras - Can the MTH Locosound locomotives be upgraded to DCS. Darn ebay and my impulsive buying...

I have both and I'm retired. You buy some and add some as you go along.

You can mail me my $10,000 dollars. I take the old engines and the PS1's and convert them to TMCC and Railsounds [some the Equalizer by Digital Dynamics will convert to TMCC]. Its cheaper and fun to do.

Just budget.

[nblum]

"If you want TMCC and DCS together, is it necessary to buy everything or can you do the following:"

The DCS TIU and handheld are both necessary for DCS. The TMCC cab-1 and command base are both necessary for TMCC. If you want to use the DCS handheld to control TMCC you need the TIU, cable and command base, plus the cab-1 if you want to do certain functions in TMCC or do any trouble shooting of problems. So yes, you need the whole shooting match to operate both systems. Each system largely functions independently of the other, whether you are using the DCS handheld alone, or the DCS handheld and the cab-1 together. The cheapest initial investment is the cab-1 and command base for $150 MSRP or the TIU and DCS handheld for $300. The TIU to command based cable costs around $20 if I recall correctly.

The short answer is yes to your second point, but you really need the cab-1 if you're using TMCC, so the long answer is yes to your first point.

[Anonymous]

If you want TMCC and DCS together, is it necessary to buy everything or can you do the following:

DCS remote and special cable for command base. Lionel command base.

or do you have to do the following:
DCS remote, TIU, Lionel command base and special mth calbe.

[jimhaleyscomet]

I would not sell the conventional loco's till you had DCS or TMCC for at least one year(if then). I like to run all three systems (conventional, DCS, and TMCC) together and they all run just fine together. Command control sounds and remotes are fun but there is just something about moving the transformer handle and hitting that direction, whistle or bell button!

Jim H

[Anonymous]

Wow - what a cool looking layout. I see you have three lines and a streetcar. The buildings look great as well.

[Anonymous]

To everyone, thanks for the information. You guys are great!
Spankybird, my loco looks just like that one except for the Cab number. My loco has 9943. This may be the difference between Passenger sounds and Freight sounds.
Has anyone here looked at what Atlas is doing in HO.? I may have gone the HO route had I known what they were going to do. The newest locos come equipped with DCC and QSI sound. You can do all of the much more cheaply than in O guage. They also adhere to a standard from one manufacturer to the next. Just a thought.

Two clear advantages I see with O guage:
1. Size matters when you are getting older and do not see as well and 2. The smoke units

[spankybird]

It sounds like this is the engine that you bought.



If so, it is listed at $249.00 or comes from a RTR starter set at $349.00. I paided $150.00 for this one last Dec.

[nblum]

" Is that a good deal?"

Probably pretty reasonable if it's RailKing, outstanding if it's Premier.

Anyhow, I can not understand how (first of all) you can have both DCS and TMCC and (Secondly) how could anayone aford both?

DCS and TMCC work differently and by and larger do not interfere with each other's operations. People afford both by either having excellent paying jobs or depriving their families of shoes and food. Actually, for most of the last ten years, TMCC has been available for about $100. That's pretty small change compared with locomotives. People buy DCS , for one reason, as you've learned, it's the only way to get the most out of PS2.0 locomotives.

Third qustion, how cheaply can one go digital (DCS) and will it work with Fasttrack?

DCS has a MSRP of about $300, but is routinely available for about $270 in many stores or online. That includes the handheld and the TIU, which is all you need to control PS2.0 locomotives. It will work with any sort of three rail track out there, including Fastrack, which is also true of TMCC.

Fourth and final question with no life lines left, Should I sell off the three NON TMCC lionel loco I have aquired or will there still be value in the in the future?

Value is subjective. Why not wait and see if you really ,really like command control, and if so, you can sell or convert these locos. If command control leaves you cold, you can hold onto them and sell the DCS instead :).

Bonus Question for $10,000 dolloras - Can the MTH Locosound locomotives be upgraded to DCS. Darn ebay and my impulsive buying...

Most locomotives can be upgraded to PS2.0 (which is what DCS controls), but the costs are substantial, around $200-300 which may or may not make sense for a Locosound loco. TMCC conversions are a bit cheaper, about $100 to $200 depending on whether you spring for the full sound, speed control package as well as command.

[Anonymous]

I am new to the hobby and recently purchased a Proto 2.0 Pennsy Loco 2-8-0 configuration. I love it. I got it for $170.00. Is that a good deal? Anyhow, I can not understand how (first of all) you can have both DCS and TMCC and (Secondly) how could anayone aford both? Third qustion, how cheaply can one go digital (DCS) and will it work with Fasttrack? Fourth and final question with no life lines left, Should I sell off the three NON TMCC lionel loco I have aquired or will there still be value in the in the future?

I know I am asking alot of question but I got bad advice in the beginning and do not want to make more costly mistakes.

Bonus Question for $10,000 dolloras - Can the MTH Locosound locomotives be upgraded to DCS. Darn ebay and my impulsive buying...

[nblum]

In 2000 MTH was in crisis mode with sales plummeting and playing catch up to Lionel's technology in virtually every respect. They desperately wanted people to buy into PS2 and DCS, even though DCS was more than two years in the future as it turned out. Lionel isn't playing catch up, they are trying to re-establish a clearcut technology leadership with a fundamentally unchanged underlying system. The new system will obviously have many capabilities not in TMCC 1.0, and some not available in DCS. Otherwise, why bother? But why give MTH's engineers and marketers a headsup on what they need to work on next to keep up with TMCC 2.0? No one is going to drop DCS in anticipation of TMCC 2.0, and no one using TMCC is going to abandon it for DCS because TMCC 2.0 is still months or a year away.

Even four years after the introduction of DCS, Lionel is still the leader in terms of product in the field because of their six year headstart. So the purposes of MTH's announcing capabilities which did not exist, and Lionel's waiting until product release to announce the second generation of an industry leading system represent differing needs and strategies. Neither side has a clear technology lead now as Lionel did in 2000 (and 1996), although DCS is certainly more sophisticated and has more capabilities. The likelihood that TMCC 2.0 is going to win over significant numbers of "DCS only" users is small, and the reverse is even more true at this point is my guess. So each company is playing to a relatively small and fairly static audience. There aren't enough new people entering the hobby with a technical bent to have made the development of TMCC 2.0 an urgent issue until recently. At least that's the way I interpret the history and actions that have occurred.

[spankybird]

Jonadel – if you are going to be waiting anyway, then what’s the difference, maybe TMCC2 will come out by the time you are ready to buy it. Personally, I wouldn’t wait if you wi***o run in command. The rumor mill has said that TMCC 1 will be upgradeable to TMCC 2. I don’t know if their would be a cost or not, maybe Neil knows.

Neil, I guess my point is that MTH announced back in 2000 what DCS was going to be able to do, and yes it took a very long 2 years for them to release it, but when they did, it did what they said it would do as they stated back in 2000. I was very surprised (and happy) that my PS2 engines from 2000 did every thing that MTH said it would do with DCS.

Being a design engineer, I don’t understand how you can design something without having a list of goals. And I also understand by not publishing your goals you are not committing yourself. If something doesn’t work, it was only a rumor. This is a very safe way of doing it.