Demographics of Classic Toy Trains.

[brianel027]

Dr. John, I can't argue with you on that one. I took the numbers directly off Lionel's very own website. It probably makes Lionel look good to have as many dealers listed as possible, ie: look how dealers carry our products!

On the other hand, I know Lionel has pretty strict dealer requirements, so why they would have so many listed that weren't up to snuff or no longer in business is beyond me.

You guys are right about the basement factor to a degree. The basement was were the layout got built. But it was still the kinds of good paying jobs that were once so plentiful combined with real trains being everywhere, combined with Lionel's aggressive marketing which aimed the products at KIDS and their DADS.

Today there is no aggressive advertising and the trains are being bought by those one-time kids who are now adults.

It's also a well known fact that the northeast US states have seen the greatest losses of population in the past 2 decades. While many other states continue to gain, we continue to lose. LIttle doubt in my mind that some of the modelers in other states were originally from the northeast looking for better paying jobs, or just a job - and they brought along their interest in trains.

[Anonymous]

Of the places I've lived in or spent considerable time in during my lifetime, I've found the greatest concentration of train stores and hobbyists in Ohio and Pennsylvania; followed by Milaukee, Chicago, and the D.C./Baltimore area. I've found the fewest train stores (but not necessarily smallest number of hobbyists) in Iowa, Hawaii, here in Southwest Virginia, and in Charlotte, NC. Lots of hobby activity--and stores--in California and Florida, as well as in Texas and Colorado. My guess is the deep South--Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana--and some midwestern states have the lowest overall hobby participation and lowest number of local train stores to choose from.

[ChiefEagles]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Allan Miller

Railroads played a big part in winning the Civil War (although some folks in my neck of the woods are still fighting it)--that's a fact that is not and cannot really be disputed. And guess which side had the better railroads, and far more of them! [;)]

D--- right!!!!!!! [about the war still going]

We had 4 train stores [not just a hobby shop] in Wake County. Two died [one was the old most established store]. Mainly due to poor management. Now we have the two that are very large. One, in a small mall [with layout in the center of the mall] has all things needed [or can get] to build a model RR. Prices are MSRP. Only get my paints and etc from that one. Then you have "Miss Edna". Big building and lots of stock. Has the minimum of maintenance supplies for toy trains. Repair facility. Has only O and S gauge. Prices are outstanding as low overhead.

I travel the USA [as most know]. I hit the Yellow Pages in all the cities I visit. I find most major cities the same. One with MSRP and one or more that are reasonable in prices. I do not understand how the MSRP stores seem to be going strong. I have visited them all and there are always folks in there buying and being sucked in by the store owner. Lots of Grandparents remembering the old Lionel days. I want to walk up to them and say, "You are being taken price wise."

I will admitt that up Nawth, there seems to be more train stores. I just visited one in Bridgeport OH. Very reasonable prices so I bought rolling stock. Had it shipped UPS. Got the big box with 4 cars in 3 days. I only paid $6.70 shipping for all 4 cars. Now this guy lost big time on the sale. Told me to pass the word that he would mail order and ship for anyone. Maybe us Southerners are a little smarter. [;)]

[brianel027]

God bless you Chief! You made me laugh with your one single word "nawth." I had to say it several times... [%-)] how sad that I cannot properly pronounce the very area of the country I live in!! [8]

Guess that could be another reason why we "nawtherners" come down yonder south.... so we can finally learn how to talk!! [:D]

[ChiefEagles]

Brian, when you admitt you love sweet ice tea and grits, we will do a "laying on of hands" and you will become an honorary Southerner. [:D] On the Nawth thing. Got a good friend that is from MI originally. She is a lawyer for the NC Utilities Comm. Sent her an email with that word. She called me and wanted to know what that word ment. [:D] As Ricky said to Lucy, I "splained" it to her.

QUOTE: Maybe us Southerners are a little smarter.

Means we will sit home and mail order our trains from you Nawtherners and let you lose money. [:0][;)]

[Bob Keller]

About a year ago I asked circulation to send me a state-by-state (and country-by-country) listing of our sales. If memory serves, if Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York states were nuked, I believe that would take down about 40% of our readership. I'll dig that out when I get to the office Monday.

[bogaziddy]

I'd have to go along with Dr. John on this one - lack of basements and habitable attics out here in the West account of the ranch house style of architecture so prevalent out here. When I received my first asked-for American Flyer Trainset for Christmas in 1954, We lived at that time in Collinsville, Illinois. There seemed to be many train stores nearby as well as many individuals with train layouts. Seems like every single one of my friends had a layout in his basement. All of the local kids had a great deal of inspiration due to the fact that Collinsville, being located in the greater St. Louis metropolitan area, had a lot of railroads running around. Back then most of the US population was concentrated East of the Mississippi and that was during the time toy trains were most popular - so it is obvious that most of the old collectible post war trains are located there and that the interest is there.

I did most of my growing up in the San Francisco Bay Area. I can't remember ever living in a home with a basement or attic large enough for a toy train layout. So if you wanted a train layout, it would have to go in a spare bedroom, the garage or an outbuilding. Because of the nice weather out here on average, I know that only a few people actually keep their cars in their garages so it seems the garage is a favorite location for train layouts. If you are fortunate enough to have a family or spouse that is willing to let you allocate a spare bedroom to a train layout , chances are it will be HO or N Scale so that you can cram more railroading into that limited space. So that explains the relative dearth of O gauge ( scale ) model railroads out here as opposed to the Eastern U.S.

Large scale trains and their quarters notwithstanding, what I like about living out here in the West is ... ELBOW ROOM. Even though California is the most populous state, it is also a pretty large state and where I live is a sparsely settled area with lots of open space - plenty of trees, clean water and healthful, breatheable air. So I'll just live with the inconvenience of few fellow toy train enthusiasts, stores ( Thanks UPS ) and train shows to attend. The train show I go to every year is 275 miles away and I have to get a Hotel room to attend that two day event. No, I like the relatively sparsely settled area I live in although the local chamber of commerce is desparately trying to turn this area into another Aspen, Colorado. If that happens, I'll probably look once again for greener pastures somewhere else in the wide open spaces of the West ... Out where a train is a train that you can watch going from horizon to horizon ... clickety clack, clickety clack, clickety clack. "U.P. detector. No defects, no defects. Detector out !

[dougdagrump]

There is one other item for consideration as to the disparity of toy trains between the NE and the rest of the country. Up north once winter rolls around what else is there to do ? [:I] [:o)] [:D]

[csxt30]

[#ditto] Doug !! I was going to say the same thing, as a kid growing up in the winter, I had my trains for the winter, & off on my bike in the summer. Of course we did a lot of sled riding then too, & I delivered papers & all, but was still fun to look forward to play with the trains when everything else was done !! [:D]
Thanks,

[ChiefEagles]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougdagrump

There is one other item for consideration as to the disparity of toy trains between the NE and the rest of the country. Up north once winter rolls around what else is there to do ? [:I] [:o)] [:D]

Not exactly. Cold winters cause 9 month population boom. [;)]

[GregM]

QUOTE: Not exactly. Cold winters cause 9 month population boom

As long as the electricity is on this isn't true, but let the power go off, watch out!

True story. A few years ago, a small town west of here experienced a significant increase in births. Well someone did a little research and figured out there had been a power failure 9 months earlier. Power failure was during winter if I remember correctly.

Karen tells me all the time candles are romantic. LOL

[dougdagrump]

But Chief, If you spend more time with the trains the long term expenses are a whole lot cheaper and don't give you as much gray hair. [:-,]

[underworld]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pbjwilson

Well, Othe r than the St. Louis Cardinals, it wasnt until the 1960's that there was a major league baseball team west of the Mississippi. Most of the population of the U.S. was east of the Mississippi.So about 99% of your postwar trains were originally purchased in cities and towns east of the great river.
In fact I think that the states west of the Mississip should succeed and start there own country. Heck you might as well take everything south of the Mason Dixon line as well. Everyone knows that us Yanks are the ones really running the country anyway. And since we're running everything, we have all the trains.

[bow][bow][bow][bow][bow]



underworld

aka The Violet

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Bob Keller]

I checked the old spreadsheet. In 2004 the West (AK AZ CA CO HI IA ID KS MN MO MT ND NE NM NV OR SD UT WA WY) contained 19 percent of our readers, the South (AL
AR FL GA KY LA MS NC OK SC TN TX VA) held 18 percent of our readers and the East (all the remaining states) were 63 percent of our readers.

Of the non-US subscribers, there were in: Canada and Mexico (60%), Europe 17%, the UK 10%, Asia 9%, South America 3%, Africa 1%, and a tiny sliver were in the Carribean.

[c50truck]

Thanks Bob for looking. I appreciate the info and your time. That data certainly backs up my observations.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. I was informed and amused.
Seems I will need to travel to see some of the museums and events out there. Meanwhile, till more O Gauge railroader’s surface in my part of this world, I’ll just hang around here.

Rod.

[ChiefEagles]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ogaugeoverlord

I checked the old spreadsheet. In 2004 the West (AK AZ CA CO HI IA ID KS MN MO MT ND NE NM NV OR SD UT WA WY) contained 19 percent of our readers, the South (AL
AR FL GA KY LA MS NC OK SC TN TX VA) held 18 percent of our readers and the East (all the remaining states) were 63 percent of our readers.

Of the non-US subscribers, there were in: Canada and Mexico (60%), Europe 17%, the UK 10%, Asia 9%, South America 3%, Africa 1%, and a tiny sliver were in the Carribean.

That is because 63% have nothing to do but read during those cold months. Us Southerners are out having fun year around. [;)]

[Jumijo]

The percentage of readership is so high here because we can read. Simple as that. You start mombo-ing your way south, it's a different story.

Hey Chief, we've spoken several times. Do you think I have a Boston Yankee accent?

Jim

[FJ and G]

People in South all don't have twangy accents. For instance, people south Louisiana have New York and French accents, people in Austin have San Francisco accents and people in northern Virginia have Yankee accents.

Perhaps CTT articles need to reflect regional differences and sometimes use the word "you-all" to be fair to everyone.

[yanipy]

Hey watch your language- - I am a former yank from Mich. living in Hispanicially dominated- S. Tx. where Model railroading is still in an infant stage - -I live in S. Tx. and there are virtually few resources for train supplies-nearest is Corpus Christi- 160 km. north.
G.V.,

[pbjwilson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jaabat

You start mombo-ing your way south, it's a different story.

Jim

LOL - I think thats the first time the word mombo has been used on this forum or any train publication.

[ChiefEagles]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jaabat

The percentage of readership is so high here because we can read. Simple as that. You start mombo-ing your way south, it's a different story.

Hey Chief, we've spoken several times. Do you think I have a Boston Yankee accent?

Jim

YES YOU DO!!! Once in a blue moon, there is a nice Yankee. [;)] [but you still can't trust them]

[prewardude]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jaabat

The percentage of readership is so high here because we can read. Simple as that. You start mombo-ing your way south, it's a different story...

Jim

Now that there was funny! [(-D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles


That is because 63% have nothing to do but read during those cold months. Us Southerners are out having fun year around. [;)]

Over 4,000 posts in 2 years?...you must use your computer outdoors![:D] Seriously, I think I would prefer a NC climate. Joe in PA

[Anonymous]

I don't know if we are still on the same topic here, but I agree with BrianelO27. I don't understand how an HO manufauturer can take a diesel engine, and with electronics & detail, have it do everything but be able to pull into a wendy's for a pic up order and all for arouind 350.00 bucks.Don't tell me it has anything to do with the size. It takes more know how to get all that stuff into HO, than o-gauge. I think it's just plain greed for the over priced O gauge trains. Easter

[Jumijo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by easter

I don't know if we are still on the same topic here, but I agree with BrianelO27. I don't understand how an HO manufauturer can take a diesel engine, and with electronics & detail, have it do everything but be able to pull into a wendy's for a pic up order and all for arouind 350.00 bucks.Don't tell me it has anything to do with the size. It takes more know how to get all that stuff into HO, than o-gauge. I think it's just plain greed for the over priced O gauge trains. Easter

The cost per unit is much lower because they sell many more units. The number of HO railroaders vastly outnumbers the O gaugers. Also, try selling that $350 HO deisel on the second hand market and see what you get for it. Maybe 1/2 or less. Much of the O stuff holds its value better than HO. Probably because there is less of it?

Jim

[FJ and G]

The only way to know for sure would be to compare a list of particular items sold with the company profit statements; neither of which is available for the public.

What might shoot this whole idea out of the water is the generally low price on a lot of G-scale stuff, from track to locomotives.

[Anonymous]

I won't buy a train with the thought of what it will bring on the second hand market. I'll buy it for my enjoyment. I doubt that any of the trains made now will be collectors items anyhow. I think that all ended with things in the post war era. Todays trains are electronics. the guts of these things will change on a regular basis. No ones going to want an obsolete model when the new electronic gadgets come out by the same manufacturers.I don 't think an 8 track tape is a collectable. Tapes are replced by dvd's,etc, etc. Make it for a little less, and the o gauge market may grow.They just don't want to do that. Easter