What K-Line products do you want to see Lionel produce?

[wallyworld]

I hope the demise of K-Line is not a portent of a watershed event where all the legal battling leads to killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. K- Line was unique inasmuch as they really made an effort to increase the play value of trains especially toward the end, where they introduced a variety of operating accesories that did not break the family bankroll and did not rely on expensive command and control systems that are counterintuitive to entry level products growing the market, which is rapidly aging.
I can remember the regulars at my local shop being very surprised at the high quality and dollar value of their products. Alot of us were in agreement that K Line was the affordable alternative to MTH and Lionel with the ghost of Marx in the background-there is a reason that Marx products have had nine lives beyond what any of us could have forseen. I hope the accesories are continued..

[Anonymous]

Lionel would undoubtebly contribute the sustaining lifes blood to the toy train industry by continuing productionn of all essential 0-027 products at entry level pricing.

Let the hobbiest decide to what degree she or he wants to take the adventure too,sometimes if it ain't truly broke don't fix it........

I admire the entire spectrum of toy trains and memories sustain themselves practically on a daily basis.

You just can't top the little kids visiting full of questions and visions of excitement watching all the various animated scenic additions.

After seeing the joy in their faces don't forget the most important ingrediant,cookies cause they are crucial to the bonding nature of  boys and girls of all ages.....Today's youngsters have incredible access and knowledge regarding many facets of the electronic age,best part they can teach us a bunch.

The excitement of basic operation and scenery building presents opportunities not found in most video software,most important freedom of individual expression a term we grew upon but some kids have never experienced

Long after the neighborhood children leave the smiles and tears of  happiness make their journey down my craggy face with hope they will wander up a bit sooner next time.

[brianel027]

Well Jwse30, this whole thread is somewhat speculation and the entire picture could dramatically change in several months when the final ruling comes down on the Lionel/MTH lawsuit. Will Wellspring swallow a $40M judgement against a company that is already operating in bankruptcy? Time will tell.

Provided Lionel survives that hurdle and can gain ownership of the K-Line tooling (and not just exclusive rights to market the items), things could change quite a bit. I could envision Lionel producing many more K-Line based products under that scenario. But that's my speculation.

Remember though that K-Line started off as a retail business selling Lionel products of all things. Later when K-Line began manufacturing, what was the first line of products offered by the new company? Yep, 027 track!!

This would not be the first time when circumstances looked like Lionel might drop 027 track. First there T-rail, then there was Super '0" and then there was the MPC TruTrack. Now we have Lionel's FasTrack with some real success to the line. But I think there will continue to be a market for 027 track. Should Lionel be foolish enough to drop their line, I'm certain someone else will seize the opportunity and start producing it. Under that picture, I think Williams could be more inclined to expand their current selection.

Remember, there is a price element involved in this hobby. A decade ago, who could have guessed that the former Williams Mighty Mite switcher would have new life. Yet RMT has had quite a bit of success with this little affordably priced, decent value loco. K-Line also got their foot in the marketplace by offering more competitely priced items over Lionel's.

So I wouldn't write off 027 track just quite yet.

[jwse30]

I have emailed Lionel with my one (well, two actually) request. I really hope they remake the K-Line O27 switches.  I honestly don't see it happening though. I think in a few years the only tubular O gauge track will be Williams, and I think all they make is straight and 31" O gauge, no O-27.

J White

[Andrew Falconer]

In 1995 Lionel ran their plastic ACF Center Flow 2-Bay Covered Hopper in a Denver & Rio Grande Western scheme that was close, but not quite right.

The K-Line Aluminum Body ACF Center Flow 2-Bay Covered  Hopper should be run in the 1977-1978 paint schemes for Denver & Rio Grande Western, Southern Pacific, and Missouri Pacific. Now that there is a licencing agreement with UP, the colors and graphics will be accurate. These cars used to be set out on a siding at the Harborlite Silica Processing plant between Vicksburg and Schoolcraft on the GTW mainline. They were used to haul silica from western states.

Andrew

[BlackJack]

More of the EP-5 electric locomotives. They only released the NH and Great Northern. PRR tuscan and green, as well as a blk/orange Milwaukee Road were planned. I think only the shells are painted different, (mechanicals like pilots, etc) are the same, so could easily have several versions. Maybe even Virginian or PC versions...

[msacco]

I would like to see Lionel produce the K-Line suburban tank engine. I think this was their last engine produced. It's nicley sized for 031. I'm just afraid of how much it will cost!! Most likely I would not be able to justify that kind of money for the quality of the "new stuff"

 

Mike S.

[lionelsoni]

Boyd, I got a circle (16 pieces) from hobbylinc.com a couple of weeks ago for $40 including shipping.

[brianel027]

Jim, you pretty much sum up what I have felt and have said. But I also have little hope that it will happen, though I'd like for time to prove me wrong on this one. I think Lionel is too entrenched in their thinking that by putting the copyrighted orange/blue scheme on a box with the words "Lionel" that the sky is the limit as far as pricing. Every Lionel CEO of the past 20 years has spoken of the collectibility factor. No dbout this has a lot to do with the high pricing levels of the PWC series: to not drive down prices on older items by offering the reissues at more reasonable prices.

Even Neil Young's rantings aka Clyde Coil carry forward the thought that somehow Lionel views the high technology products such as Legacy as making Lionel products a family related hobby. I wonder what families he is talking about? The same familes he sings for on Farm Aid? The same kind typical of Greendale? Sorry Charlie, but the "real" families I talk to don't seem to feel that high end digital control train products are in their price range.

Obviously there is a market for the high end. The average age chart on the OGR forums shows the lopsided nature of the ages of hobby participants, which offers no surprises from what any of us already know: the landside majority of modelers in this hobby are in the 50-60 year old age group. Jerry Calabrese has said the new Lionel Legacy Big Boy has already exceeded Lionel's sales expectations by almost double. This probably has something to do with the Legacy System being included with the locomotive. But it's still a $1,700 price tag and I'd gander not many 8-year old boys are getting this item gift wrapped with their name on it.

In his interview, Calabrese speaks of Lionel's established brand recognition and quality and how this equates to full list price. Which flies in the face of the ironic fact that Lionel's largest top dealers (Grand Central, Grzyboski, Train Express, Train Land, Island Trains, Charlie Ro, etc) are ALL dicount mail order venues and NOT full list price sellers. They sell the most product because they offer substantial discount pricing and blowouts, simple as that.

Lionel's distribution and wholesale regulations need to be addressed as much as any new products that could be offered. Lionel also needs to put a small effort into tooling for the low end with at least one new modern non-scale starter diesel (along the lines of what the Alco FA was years ago) to capture the feel of today's modern locomotives.

I would go one step further and suggest Lionel go back to two separate edition catalogs: one geared entirely to the newcomer and beginning modelers with more introductory priced items and a normal second catalog as what they currently do. The lopsided nature of Lionel's offerings towards the expensive higher end does little to encourage (and actually deters) newcomers and young families with the obvious impression that this is an expensive rich man's hobby.

In my thinking, there's even more irony that although Lionel has always been THE NAME, a generation ago many kids got their start in the hobby with the more affordable, more readily available MARX trains. And once those kids got that MARX set, more than likely they added Lionel items to that set.

Now today Lionel has rights to the K-Line tooling via the marketing agreement with Sanda Kan. And much of the tooling that got K-Line started and established is that same MARX tooling. As much as their is a place for scale detailed expensive trains in today's market, there is also a place for more affordable, traditionally sized trains. The success of RMT and products like the BEEP and the BUDDY confirm what I have been saying for years: there IS a desire and a need for affordale non-scale trains and if someone will make them, make them right and in a variety of roads,  they WILL sell and sell in droves.

I've been reading these comments on the OGR forum for years, that the reason K-Line stopped making the 027 MARX origin Budd car and the MARX origin Alco S-2 is because they didn't sell, and that they aren't scale proportioned. Well, then why is the BUDDY selling now?

I dare say if Walter Matuch could offer the K-Line S-2, that he would have a big hit with that too!! Especially if he offered it in the same variety of roads and not the same few that Lionel always offers.

MDK K-Line more or less forgot about their original buyers that allowed them to become established in the beginning and eventually went under. Let's hope Lionel will not make the same mistake. With easy access to these lesser expensive, basic train items, Lionel has an opportunity without the additonal expensive of related new toolings costs. Not to mention a couple of the newer items like the redesigned improved 027 switch and the SuperStreets line.

It's unlikely that under the current closed minded thinking of Lionel, that they would offer the former K-Line products at the attractive pricing that allowed K-Line to gain a foothold in the marketplace (see the list prices already in place for the initial K-Lionel offerings) - though maybe they should. If nothing more, they could at least offer the products.

In the words of Jerry Calabrese, how many more expensive locomotives can this current market absorb without dramatic blowout pricing? He seems to understand the problems and the need for growth (via his "funnel" philosophy), so we will see if Lionel is as determined to address the problem with more affordable, basic products - OR if they will continue to placate the middle aged Neil Young's of this hobby with more high end products that the down-to-earth family farmer of Greendale will never be able to purchase.

[Anonymous]

I would like to see the US Army Steam and tender 401-302202 continued to be produced. I understand only a few were made and I cannot find one. The military steam engines have always been a low priority for Lionel. Just when I thought they were going to be produced K-line is defunct.

[FJ and G]

Plymouth and very small mining cars. I'd buy these

[Boyd]

The K-Line 72" circle track in the 027 profile. I  didn't know it was made until 2 years ago. Its cheaper and  shorter in height than "O" gauge tubular 72" circle track. I bought  one complete circle of it at a hobby shop for about $32.00. That dealer told me they stopped making it but he's cranky and I think maybe he  was lying to me. If there is more of it floating around in hobby shops I would love to buy some more for when I do a helix.

[jimhaleyscomet]

I think Lionel would be nuts to make the same mistake K-line did (focus on scale/detail and ignore 027) with K-line products.   If they are smart they will keep the brands "separate".  Let K-line have the market for non scale items, snap track, 0-27 track.  Keep the price low so people get hooked on trains via sets.  Roll all the great scale / command / detailed items up to the Lionel line.  Only put out catalogs for Lionel, go back to just a flyer for K-line (like Williams).  By keeping the brands separate they will not "cheapen" the Lionel lines with low prices and at the same time they can use the K-line name to target the budget hobbiest.   Most marketing people suggest the approach of an expensive line and a cheaper line to spread fixed costs.  The only problem is usually the second line is the upscale line (think honda/acura, toyota/Lexus).  Will Lionel LLC want to add a low price line even if the only words on the toys are K-line?  I hope so!  This would allow them to keep great featureed / nostolgic Lionel stuff at the dealers at high list prices while selling K-line gear through the K-line mail club and at Hobby Lobby. 

Twice the market (both the feature market and the budget market)!  I hope Lionel LLC does it right!  I worry though that they will drop snap track, have a very few "K-line" items in the Lionel catalog and alieanate all us budget operators. 

Jim H

[choochin3]

I would like to see Lionel continue to produce the inexpensive 027 freight cars made from the old Marx molds.

I really enjoy collecting the Keystone Keepsakes series of boxcars,they add a lot of color and a lot of products that you don't see everyday.

Plus they are cheap (about $10.00) wich is fine for my budget.

 

Carl T.

[insfil]

I'd like to see Lionel continue the K-Line "SuperSnap" track and switches, which I've installed on my around the wall layout. I find the "SuperSnap" system of track easy to install, durable in its construction, reliable for its conductivity and kudos for its overall look with its inside blacken rail.

I have a stretch of tunnel in which I've used conventional "O" gauge track in, and the connections to and  from the "SuperSnap" have been so easy to install. I ordered enough "SuperSnap" track and switches for my upper level and lower levels of current operation before K-Line went under, I just hope Lionel produces the track so if any future expansion takes place on my layout I'll have a reliable souce to obtain it. All my Lionel  engines and rolling stock run just fine on the "SuperSnap" track system.

I've always felt that K-Line offered a good, reliable and competitive line of equipment in the market place, and to see K-Line go by the boards is just not good for the hobby at all! Let's hope Lionel does whatever it can to keep K-Line products in its family of excellent offerings.

 

 

 

[thatboy37]

emmaandy- if you try  chicago land hobby in chi-town the last time i went there they had quite a few of the supersteets in stock i thought about getting some but thought the same thing that i wouldn't be able to find anymore to go along with what i was going to buy.

being that kline is now owned by lionel that would be great for them to make that i would definitly invest in that. it would be cool to see the cars on the layout move as well as seeing the`trains run the kids would probably get more of a kick out of seeing the cars run between the trains.

thats my 2%.

[lionelsoni]

Their O27 tubular track.  I have bought a stock of the curves, and already have a lot of the 36-inch straights.

[chuckles]

I would like to see 4 digit unit numbers on diesels,  no six digit.

[Andrew Falconer]

K-Line already has the Tooling for the Thrall Car (Budd) Lo-Pac 2000.

The demonstrator scheme for the Budd designed Lo-Pac 2000 unit originally built in 1984 by Thrall Car's Chicago Heights plant.

The Demonstrator Budd Lo-Pac 2000 should have a Trailer with the BUDD logo in each well.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

#1=SuperStreets. I have some (it's great) but didn't get enough and now it is hard to find.
#2=Shay. Much more "standard" looking that MTH and L's version. Plus will do O31.
#3= Plymouth. Really great SCALE small switcher engine for a good price.
#4= Porter. Was only released as K-line fell and only in few schemes. (A little too big)
#5= Scale reefers. If Lionel pulls the reefers they are insane.
#6= Shorty Ore Jennys. Sold with some Plymouths these models were actually really close to common 19th century cars and would be a good way for Lionel to expand thier 19th century offerings. Add some frieght for that General.

[hugoroundhouse]

I'd like tosee that Big Boy as well...

Also, I hope Lionel continues to produce the near-genuine AF tubular track K-Line made. How about some different radii?

But PLEASE, Lionel, do not use the MARX -size rolling stock for S Gauge - use the true AF size.

Jim E.

[sgriggs]

I'd like to see an American Flyer S gauge version of the K-Line 1/64th 'O' Big Boy they did a few years ago.

Lionel, are you listening?

[Anonymous]

What would be great is the Husky-Line Wood Caboose decorated for the Candian National, Central Vermont, and Grand Trunk Western as seen during the 1950's

The Husky-Line Caboose has a more windows than the prototypes, but it is less expensive than the rare Lionel O Scale Wood-Sided Caboose with a tall cupola.

To accompany these caboose there should be either the Husky-Line GP-7 Locomotive in CN, CV, GTW schemes from the 1950's or the Classic S-2 Switcher in the CN, CV, GTW schemes.

Andrew Falconer

[kolov]

I think it would be easy for the Train 19 and some of K-Line track offerings to be easily incorprated into Lionel.

I bought two K-line steamers because of one issue. 0-31 radius capability.

I think a K-Line stripped down line could be offered by Lionel a long the lines of a Honda - Acura, Ford- Mercury, etc. etc.

The infared connector on Lionel is neat but outside of those critical of asthectics who really needs its?

K-Line offered varations on a single loco conventional, command, command with cruise control. I would not recommend Lionel follow the idea exactly but taking off some of the trimmings of the high priced loco's might be something to look at for Lionel.

I would reiterate that those who have size limits on their layouts 0-31 turning ability is very attractive.

[brianel027]

Thanks Dave. You are right I believe that what Lionel believes is a "reasonable list price" is completely different from many modelers reality. And again, I believe that the high prices across the board on most Lionel products have a lot to do with trying to manipulate after-market sales prices, and to help cover the expenses of all the new tooling that is currently being done.

But I think Andrew F. has a point too. K-Line did forget about guys like me who helped them get started. But they also won over many new modelers with their detailed quality products. I would guess that some of the products Andrew has mentioned would not necessarily be out of the question, so long as the tooling is ready to go. The big question is we do not know how well the dies for the later K-Line products were made, meaning longevity.

I personally believe that the guys who are making long laundry lists of the items they'd like to see made that are both unusual and require new tooling are probably out of the question. But I can also imagine Lionel considering some of the more scale oriented items.

Again though, a lot can still happen... we'll have to see how this all plays out. And even if this all goes as Lionel anticipates, it's not out of the question that Lionel could take the K-Line products and shoot themselves in the feet with it by pricing it in a similar league as Lionel product prices.

Remember folks at Lionel.... many of us bought K-Line products not out of dislike of Lionel products, but because your prices are too HIGH given the quality point. For $20 list I could buy a K-Line box car with the best die cast trucks they made. For $30 you can buy a basic Lionel box car with plastic trucks and a flimsy plastic frame that sometimes falls out of the car body.... that's the reason why I and many others opted for K-Line products. To get a Lionel box car with die cast trucks, you end up spending double the list cost of the K-Line box car.

And one final PS: yes, after 1991 K-Line products were made in China. At least they openly admited it. But while many Lionel boxes said "Made in America" pulling apart the trains, revealed otherwise: the casting for the 1991 C&O Flyer 4-4-2 steam was made overseas. The 027 switches were made overseas in Hong Kong. , as were many starter items. I've been told 027 track production went to China long before Lionel closed the US plant.

[Anonymous]

Regarding the O Scale EMD F-3 and F-7 Diesel-Electric Locomotives that K-Line Produced.

It would be appreciated if Lionel used these less expensive O Scale EMD F-Units to represent the secondary railroads of the 1950's and 1960's such as the Grand Trunk Western, Soo Line, Florida East Coast, Minneapolis & St. Louis, Monon, Kansas City Southern, and Bessemer & Lake Erie.

Have a Wonderful Ride.

Andrew Falconer
Vicksburg, MI

[Anonymous]

Too add to my list, I'd like to see the MP15 and the S2.

K-Line had a nice Western Pacific, Chicago and Alton, and MKT Pacific in 2000 and 2001. I'd like to see those again.

steel rails

[Anonymous]

I am very certain about this.

Lionel has to make the Aluminum O Scale Tank Cars in many more paint schemes. Union Tank Car Co. Leasees and Procor Leasees would be a great place to start.
K-Line's Aluminum Tank Cars are the best O Scale Tank Cars produced in the past 5 years.

Lionel would help everyone if the O Scale Wood Sided Refrigerator Cars were available in Railroad Schemes like the Soo Line, Canadian National, Canadian Pacific, and Grand Trunk Western.

The Evans Products Coil Cars need to be produced in all roadnames and color schemes ever applied to an EP Coil Car: including the Detroit & Toledo ShoreLine.
The Evans Products Coil Cars could be seen in great varieties between 1965 and 1995. Recreating that time period without a wide selection of graphics and colors to choose from is difficult.

The Spine Flat Car has to made with the CNW Safety Yellow Scheme and have a CNW 45' Trailer on top.

The Budd/Thrall Car Lo-Pac Deep Well Intermodal Car must be made again so that the Canadian National 1985 paint schemes can be applied. Then the CN Intermodal series of 11 Trailers built in 1985 called the SuperModal Series can be placed in them.

There are still numerous Railroads and leasing companies that have yet to represented on these recent, high quality O Scale Models.

Andrew F.
Vicksburg, MI

[Anonymous]

Hmm,

1. Starter Set Pacific, based on Marx 333 tooling
2. 0-27 Alco FA A-A's
3. Plymouth Diesel Switcher
4. Porter 0-4-0 Steamer
5. B6 0-6-0 in the $200-$300 range, rather than the $500 when K-Line first cataloged it.

I'd also like to see Lionel use K-Line's S guage toolings and make the S gauge products that K-Line made.

K-Line's Train 19 and similar rolling stock would be nice, as well as an expanded number of roadnames for each car.

In the words of Forrest Gump "Thats all I have to say about that".

steel rails