What K-Line products do you want to see Lionel produce?

[Dr. John]

With the news that Lionel will offer K-Line products in the near future, what would you like to see them produce?

I hope to see some of the traditional items that K-Line neglected in recent years: The S-2 switcher, the Alco FA, and their Train 19 rolling stock.
I also hope they produce K-Line's excellent O-27 turnouts, although with Fastrack and Lionel's own tubular offerings, I have my doubts.

What about you?

[brianel027]

From Lionel's website, Jerry Calabrese had this to say on 2/17

"Lionel intends to make K-Line products as part of a larger plan to expand our own middle line offerings that we believe have a greater role in our catalog and overall business – offerings intended to give more people a chance to own quality Lionel products at many levels. This includes engines and rolling stock that are more manageable in size and price, but yet strong on value. Having said that, selling highly detailed, die cast, steam engines that contain state of the art electronics for not much more, or in some cases, less than they cost to make, is a devil’s bargain and not a good deal for anyone.

For those of you who are concerned that the loss of an independent and competitive K-Line will lead to higher prices and fewer options, I can only promise that Lionel takes very seriously its commitment to making a broad range of great products and selling them at fair and affordable prices."

There's been plenty of speculation on what will happen and what could get made in the future should everything work out in Lionel's favor. Given the excepts above from Mr. Calabrese's statement - the entire statement can be read here -

http://www.lionel.com/CentralStation/NewsStand/viewrelease.cfm?newsID=125)

I would not expect Lionel to be investing additional dollars into modification of tooling or even new tooling under the K-Line banner. So I expect it is highly unlikely that one will expect to see the vast continuation of new products that in some part, contributed to K-Line's downfall.

For one thing, Sandra Kan is still owed vast sums of money which need to be repaid. Hopefully Lionel can do this without raising prices to such a point where the former K-Line products become non-competitive with the Lionel products. A tough balancing act: but many of us who bought K-Line products did so because they were a better price and a better value than many equal feature Lionel products.

As with Dr. John, I hope that Lionel would continue with some of the lesser bragged about products that K-Line forgot about in their later years. And to offer a little more variety in roadnames. This was also a big mistake K-Line made: they were continually re-releasing cars and roadnames that had already been made. The NYC Pacemaker scheme showed up many times of differing box car issues. And having released the B&O Timesaver LCL as part of a Holiday Bonanza, it was issued again as a KCC membership car. I believe it may have even been issued again after that. Same goes for the BAR State of Maine red, white and blue cars.

There are plenty of popular roadnames and schemes K-Line never even covered. And ironically some they did cover were only available in uncataloged employee only Conrail sets... I almost pulled the hair out of my head when I saw the uncataloged Merger Celebration Conrail set... I would have bought every single car in that set (some in multiples) had K-Line bothered to make those cars at another point in time instead on continually making the same roads over and over again. I'd been hoping for years to see K-Line make some traditionally sized box cars in Jersey Central (coast guard scheme), Penn Central, Erie Lackawanna (several schemes), the more common Lehigh Valley and Reading schemes, nevermind CSX, Norfolk Southern, BNSF and others.

Yeah, K-Line was taking the el-cheapo road, saving a few bucks on paint masks, but they lost sales because of it. But on these uncataloged sets, here they had spent the money on the paint masks - so they were there. This is the exact and sole reason why I started doing so much repainting... otherwise I'd still to this day be waiting for some smaller products in modern roadnames. And based on the many comments I got at train shows, there are others who'd like to see the smaller K-Line locos in modern roadnames... the Alco FA looks pretty darned nice in the orange CSX MOW scheme... I've truned down multiple offers to sell that one, as well as my Norfolk Southern and Conrail custom paint jobs.

K-Line was in ownership of the MARX and Kusan tooling that their early products originated from. Whether Sandra Kan owns the dies that the newer products came from, that I don't know. It certainly sounds - should all of this go through - that Lionel will have access to everything. Unlike many others who have come up with long lists of new products they hope will be made, I would think that the only product types we will see are ones for which tooling and dies are already made.

I will second Dr. John's wi***o see things like the Alco S-2 made again. The K-Line redesigned 027 switches too. Even doing some of the better paint jobs done on the "S" gauge cars, but with 027 plastic trucks instead (the Lionel version, which is superior to the K-Line plastic truck). Despite the criticism these types of products get on some of the train forums, there is obviously a market for them.

K-Line didn't think much of their MARX origin Budd car. I'm sure if K-Line had announced at YORK that it was being made again, many would have cried out "you've got to be kidding!? That ain't scale!" Yet look at the success RMT has had with their version called "The Buddy." Roadname variety is a big part of that success as it is with the RMT "Beep." As is the reasonable list price!

These lower end products may not get the attention, the acclaim and the discussion time of the train forums, but there is obviously a need and a desire for them. The success RMT has recently had speaks better of this than do my words here.

[Dr. John]

Brianel,

Thanks for the update from Jerry Calabrese. I had missed that. Sounds like there's hope that we will see some of the more affordable K-Line offerings.

[spankybird]

Dr John,

I have to agree with the K-line 027 switches. Seeing that I have alot of them, it would be nice to know that replacement s are out there.

tom

[Anonymous]

I hope they produce some trains from the old Marx molds like the 4-6-2 (Marx 999) and the S-2.

[Anonymous]

They should continue making the K-Line operating watchman's shanty, new for '05. This is a vast improvement, in terms of realistic size and operation, over the one Lionel has been making all these years. Joe

[FJ and G]

Brian writes: "many of us who bought K-Line products did so because they were a better price and a better value than many equal feature Lionel products."

Amen, brother. I can't see Lionel offering products at the competitive prices that K-Line did. What Lionel says is reasonable is their definition of reasonable.

Having said that, I would be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong.

I put out an order for a battery-powered O-gauge K-line set (scales out to narrow gauge). Was told there's be several weeks delay in shipping.

I hope to get that set. Also, I would hope to see more battery-powered sets. I know i'm in the minority on this, but that's just my wish.

(btw, I believe it was K-Line that was responsible for bringing down prices of high-quality die cast rolling stock)

[jkerklo]

I was interested in Superstreets when I saw K-Line's first full page ads. First new toy train product idea to come along in a while.

I am concerned, though. I don't think K-Line ever sold more than samples and am not sure how much actually saw any shelves. There might not be any sales history for Lionel to justify re-launching a new product.

Given the lack of product when the ads first appeared, there might even have been some production problems or something that would prevent Lionel from just using the developed tooling.


John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[DCmontana]

Being a fan of the Milwaukee RR I bought several of their products in that livery.
I really like their die cast log dump car. It is a solid rugged piece and never fails to dump in a realistic fashion. The detail on the Hiawatha express box car catches my eye every time it passes around my layout. I want one of the F3/F7 ABA diesels for the Milwaukee, but have not received permission from the chairman of the board to buy one yet. I hope they don't vanish before I can make my move for more motive power. I don't think Lionel will keep making the upper level K-line stuff and that is too bad!

[tschmidt]

I just hope they keep things seperate. Much of the K Line rolling stock was nicely priced with decent features.

TomS

[Anonymous]

Hmm,

1. Starter Set Pacific, based on Marx 333 tooling
2. 0-27 Alco FA A-A's
3. Plymouth Diesel Switcher
4. Porter 0-4-0 Steamer
5. B6 0-6-0 in the $200-$300 range, rather than the $500 when K-Line first cataloged it.

I'd also like to see Lionel use K-Line's S guage toolings and make the S gauge products that K-Line made.

K-Line's Train 19 and similar rolling stock would be nice, as well as an expanded number of roadnames for each car.

In the words of Forrest Gump "Thats all I have to say about that".

steel rails

[Anonymous]

I am very certain about this.

Lionel has to make the Aluminum O Scale Tank Cars in many more paint schemes. Union Tank Car Co. Leasees and Procor Leasees would be a great place to start.
K-Line's Aluminum Tank Cars are the best O Scale Tank Cars produced in the past 5 years.

Lionel would help everyone if the O Scale Wood Sided Refrigerator Cars were available in Railroad Schemes like the Soo Line, Canadian National, Canadian Pacific, and Grand Trunk Western.

The Evans Products Coil Cars need to be produced in all roadnames and color schemes ever applied to an EP Coil Car: including the Detroit & Toledo ShoreLine.
The Evans Products Coil Cars could be seen in great varieties between 1965 and 1995. Recreating that time period without a wide selection of graphics and colors to choose from is difficult.

The Spine Flat Car has to made with the CNW Safety Yellow Scheme and have a CNW 45' Trailer on top.

The Budd/Thrall Car Lo-Pac Deep Well Intermodal Car must be made again so that the Canadian National 1985 paint schemes can be applied. Then the CN Intermodal series of 11 Trailers built in 1985 called the SuperModal Series can be placed in them.

There are still numerous Railroads and leasing companies that have yet to represented on these recent, high quality O Scale Models.

Andrew F.
Vicksburg, MI

[Anonymous]

Too add to my list, I'd like to see the MP15 and the S2.

K-Line had a nice Western Pacific, Chicago and Alton, and MKT Pacific in 2000 and 2001. I'd like to see those again.

steel rails

[Anonymous]

Regarding the O Scale EMD F-3 and F-7 Diesel-Electric Locomotives that K-Line Produced.

It would be appreciated if Lionel used these less expensive O Scale EMD F-Units to represent the secondary railroads of the 1950's and 1960's such as the Grand Trunk Western, Soo Line, Florida East Coast, Minneapolis & St. Louis, Monon, Kansas City Southern, and Bessemer & Lake Erie.

Have a Wonderful Ride.

Andrew Falconer
Vicksburg, MI

[brianel027]

Thanks Dave. You are right I believe that what Lionel believes is a "reasonable list price" is completely different from many modelers reality. And again, I believe that the high prices across the board on most Lionel products have a lot to do with trying to manipulate after-market sales prices, and to help cover the expenses of all the new tooling that is currently being done.

But I think Andrew F. has a point too. K-Line did forget about guys like me who helped them get started. But they also won over many new modelers with their detailed quality products. I would guess that some of the products Andrew has mentioned would not necessarily be out of the question, so long as the tooling is ready to go. The big question is we do not know how well the dies for the later K-Line products were made, meaning longevity.

I personally believe that the guys who are making long laundry lists of the items they'd like to see made that are both unusual and require new tooling are probably out of the question. But I can also imagine Lionel considering some of the more scale oriented items.

Again though, a lot can still happen... we'll have to see how this all plays out. And even if this all goes as Lionel anticipates, it's not out of the question that Lionel could take the K-Line products and shoot themselves in the feet with it by pricing it in a similar league as Lionel product prices.

Remember folks at Lionel.... many of us bought K-Line products not out of dislike of Lionel products, but because your prices are too HIGH given the quality point. For $20 list I could buy a K-Line box car with the best die cast trucks they made. For $30 you can buy a basic Lionel box car with plastic trucks and a flimsy plastic frame that sometimes falls out of the car body.... that's the reason why I and many others opted for K-Line products. To get a Lionel box car with die cast trucks, you end up spending double the list cost of the K-Line box car.

And one final PS: yes, after 1991 K-Line products were made in China. At least they openly admited it. But while many Lionel boxes said "Made in America" pulling apart the trains, revealed otherwise: the casting for the 1991 C&O Flyer 4-4-2 steam was made overseas. The 027 switches were made overseas in Hong Kong. , as were many starter items. I've been told 027 track production went to China long before Lionel closed the US plant.

[kolov]

I think it would be easy for the Train 19 and some of K-Line track offerings to be easily incorprated into Lionel.

I bought two K-line steamers because of one issue. 0-31 radius capability.

I think a K-Line stripped down line could be offered by Lionel a long the lines of a Honda - Acura, Ford- Mercury, etc. etc.

The infared connector on Lionel is neat but outside of those critical of asthectics who really needs its?

K-Line offered varations on a single loco conventional, command, command with cruise control. I would not recommend Lionel follow the idea exactly but taking off some of the trimmings of the high priced loco's might be something to look at for Lionel.

I would reiterate that those who have size limits on their layouts 0-31 turning ability is very attractive.

[Anonymous]

What would be great is the Husky-Line Wood Caboose decorated for the Candian National, Central Vermont, and Grand Trunk Western as seen during the 1950's

The Husky-Line Caboose has a more windows than the prototypes, but it is less expensive than the rare Lionel O Scale Wood-Sided Caboose with a tall cupola.

To accompany these caboose there should be either the Husky-Line GP-7 Locomotive in CN, CV, GTW schemes from the 1950's or the Classic S-2 Switcher in the CN, CV, GTW schemes.

Andrew Falconer

[sgriggs]

I'd like to see an American Flyer S gauge version of the K-Line 1/64th 'O' Big Boy they did a few years ago.

Lionel, are you listening?

[hugoroundhouse]

I'd like tosee that Big Boy as well...

Also, I hope Lionel continues to produce the near-genuine AF tubular track K-Line made. How about some different radii?

But PLEASE, Lionel, do not use the MARX -size rolling stock for S Gauge - use the true AF size.

Jim E.

[Anonymous]

#1=SuperStreets. I have some (it's great) but didn't get enough and now it is hard to find.
#2=Shay. Much more "standard" looking that MTH and L's version. Plus will do O31.
#3= Plymouth. Really great SCALE small switcher engine for a good price.
#4= Porter. Was only released as K-line fell and only in few schemes. (A little too big)
#5= Scale reefers. If Lionel pulls the reefers they are insane.
#6= Shorty Ore Jennys. Sold with some Plymouths these models were actually really close to common 19th century cars and would be a good way for Lionel to expand thier 19th century offerings. Add some frieght for that General.

[Andrew Falconer]

K-Line already has the Tooling for the Thrall Car (Budd) Lo-Pac 2000.

The demonstrator scheme for the Budd designed Lo-Pac 2000 unit originally built in 1984 by Thrall Car's Chicago Heights plant.

The Demonstrator Budd Lo-Pac 2000 should have a Trailer with the BUDD logo in each well.

Andrew

[chuckles]

I would like to see 4 digit unit numbers on diesels,  no six digit.

[lionelsoni]

Their O27 tubular track.  I have bought a stock of the curves, and already have a lot of the 36-inch straights.

[thatboy37]

emmaandy- if you try  chicago land hobby in chi-town the last time i went there they had quite a few of the supersteets in stock i thought about getting some but thought the same thing that i wouldn't be able to find anymore to go along with what i was going to buy.

being that kline is now owned by lionel that would be great for them to make that i would definitly invest in that. it would be cool to see the cars on the layout move as well as seeing the`trains run the kids would probably get more of a kick out of seeing the cars run between the trains.

thats my 2%.

[insfil]

I'd like to see Lionel continue the K-Line "SuperSnap" track and switches, which I've installed on my around the wall layout. I find the "SuperSnap" system of track easy to install, durable in its construction, reliable for its conductivity and kudos for its overall look with its inside blacken rail.

I have a stretch of tunnel in which I've used conventional "O" gauge track in, and the connections to and  from the "SuperSnap" have been so easy to install. I ordered enough "SuperSnap" track and switches for my upper level and lower levels of current operation before K-Line went under, I just hope Lionel produces the track so if any future expansion takes place on my layout I'll have a reliable souce to obtain it. All my Lionel  engines and rolling stock run just fine on the "SuperSnap" track system.

I've always felt that K-Line offered a good, reliable and competitive line of equipment in the market place, and to see K-Line go by the boards is just not good for the hobby at all! Let's hope Lionel does whatever it can to keep K-Line products in its family of excellent offerings.

 

 

 

[choochin3]

I would like to see Lionel continue to produce the inexpensive 027 freight cars made from the old Marx molds.

I really enjoy collecting the Keystone Keepsakes series of boxcars,they add a lot of color and a lot of products that you don't see everyday.

Plus they are cheap (about $10.00) wich is fine for my budget.

 

Carl T.

[jimhaleyscomet]

I think Lionel would be nuts to make the same mistake K-line did (focus on scale/detail and ignore 027) with K-line products.   If they are smart they will keep the brands "separate".  Let K-line have the market for non scale items, snap track, 0-27 track.  Keep the price low so people get hooked on trains via sets.  Roll all the great scale / command / detailed items up to the Lionel line.  Only put out catalogs for Lionel, go back to just a flyer for K-line (like Williams).  By keeping the brands separate they will not "cheapen" the Lionel lines with low prices and at the same time they can use the K-line name to target the budget hobbiest.   Most marketing people suggest the approach of an expensive line and a cheaper line to spread fixed costs.  The only problem is usually the second line is the upscale line (think honda/acura, toyota/Lexus).  Will Lionel LLC want to add a low price line even if the only words on the toys are K-line?  I hope so!  This would allow them to keep great featureed / nostolgic Lionel stuff at the dealers at high list prices while selling K-line gear through the K-line mail club and at Hobby Lobby. 

Twice the market (both the feature market and the budget market)!  I hope Lionel LLC does it right!  I worry though that they will drop snap track, have a very few "K-line" items in the Lionel catalog and alieanate all us budget operators. 

Jim H

[Boyd]

The K-Line 72" circle track in the 027 profile. I  didn't know it was made until 2 years ago. Its cheaper and  shorter in height than "O" gauge tubular 72" circle track. I bought  one complete circle of it at a hobby shop for about $32.00. That dealer told me they stopped making it but he's cranky and I think maybe he  was lying to me. If there is more of it floating around in hobby shops I would love to buy some more for when I do a helix.

[FJ and G]

Plymouth and very small mining cars. I'd buy these

[Anonymous]

I would like to see the US Army Steam and tender 401-302202 continued to be produced. I understand only a few were made and I cannot find one. The military steam engines have always been a low priority for Lionel. Just when I thought they were going to be produced K-line is defunct.