Would you pay more for trains made in the USA?

[FJ and G]

Say 15 or 20% more?

Prices of toy trains are already too high, many would say, but if they were made here, they'd be higher still.

Sure, people complain about jobs leaving the U.S., but would you pay more for stuff to be made in this country?

To be honest, I wouldn't want to pay the extra money for toy trains.

(I thought about this when on NPR radio a few days ago they had a piece about how Wal-Mart has cut prices to bare bones and how jobs are shifting overseas as products are cheaper to produce there. And, more than half of all Americans do their shopping at Wal-Mart.)

[Anonymous]

I'll pay more for "quality", not more only because something was made here. I own a Saturn and buy Arttista figures, both made in the USA. But most of the things I buy are made in China. Joe

[thor]

Yes! Without a doubt but only if the quality was as good or better. Chinese made electronics has a long way to go though their castings seem pretty good. I wasnt pleased to see Made In China on a LIONEL train! In fact I wonder why they even allow it.

I would love to do an MTH, startup a company building trains in the U.S., I simply don't believe it can't be done economically.

[Jumijo]

At some point, the American financial structure is going to change drastically. Manufacturing and being self-sufficient are the key ingredients to a successful economy and a "healthy" nation. If we want to compete with other countries, our pay, our homes, everything has to be ratcheted down, not up. If not, we'll all be working at WalMart selling products made in other countries. They will prosper, we will decline as a world leader.

Jim

[Blueberryhill RR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jaabat

At some point, the American financial structure is going to change drastically. Manufacturing and being self-sufficient are the key ingredients to a successful economy and a "healthy" nation. If we want to compete with other countries, our pay, our homes, everything has to be ratcheted down, not up. If not, we'll all be working at WalMart selling products made in other countries. They will prosper, we will decline as a world leader.
Jim

I agree with Jim, 100 %. Back in 1949, my Dad bought me a USA made Lionel
train for 72 bucks. That's how much he was taking home a week. And it was
good money. I think the consumer has demanded too much and forced too many
changes.
Chuck

[pbjwilson]

Dave,
I listened to the Wal-mart piece on NPR the other day as well. One point the author made was that people want to buy products at the lowest possible price, not qualiyt products at a fair price. And that we, the consumer feel cheated if we aren't getting the lowest price on an item. Reminded me of my toy train purchases. I want the lowest price and the dealer selling it for more is ripping me off. Thats what has happened to our buying habits and Sam Walton has influenced the way we purchase things.

Would I buy trains made in the USA if they cost 20% more? Simple - No.
And thats a shame because we the consumer dontt think about the worker who makes the product and that they need to make a living. The products we all buy are made by people with no insurance , making poverty wages in appalling conditions so we americans can buy more and more.

[Jumijo]

I never did answer your question, Dave.

We shouldn't have to pay more for trains made in the USA. Did train prices go down when production got MUCH cheaper overseas?! No, the prices didn't go down. They went up! A box car that might cost a buck or two to make over there sells for $30 or more, yet the train companies all cry poormouth.

Jim

[phillyreading]

Trains made here in the USA would cost more right now in this economy but would the quality be there??
The problem with the US economy is that people want to take home too much pay, or top level management is stealing money from the companies that they manage, look at Enron for a starter, how about looking in Yatching Magazine and wanting to choke the CEO of Allstate Insurance because his yatch is worth over four million dollars and the American people pay for this in thier insurance rates. Management in this country is way too greedy & that is why the USA can not compete with foriegn countries at this time.
One other thing that makes me upset is Lionel starting lawsuits against thier compition,
Lionel needs to tighten up quality control & quit all these frivaluos lawsuits against the compition. This is a free country but the way Lionel is going after their competion makes me think that we are living in Communist Russia! Why go after K-Line when a former Lionel employee sold trade secrets to K-Line, the employee should be punished
more so than K-Line.
Lee in West Palm Beach FL

[jkerklo]

I would pay more for a train from a company that was making the train, rather than just importing and selling it. I would consider the money well spent for the longevity of my purchase. Sort of why I buy from local hobby stores, rather than from discount internet suppliers; the local store will do its best to support my purchase. A discounter won't, and probably can't.

I wonder if Lionel or MTH even have the means to open a train box and look at it before it is shipped.

A company that is making and supporting its trains in the same building can respond to problems and customer complaints more easily than one that has to deal with a manufacturer 12 thousand miles away. The actual manufacturer has no consumer representation here or in our hobby. They have no interest in a train after their manufacturing run is completed.

I have the horrible suspicion that my 60-year old postwar engines will be running long after my modern engines are relegated to a display shelf because of a lack of support or repair parts.

I would pay more for a better chance that the train would be running even ten years from now.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[danrunner]

Absolutely. I'm a big made in america guy and I'd pay more. Heck, i'm paying a lot now for things made in China.

So how long as a country can we afford to export our jobs? It sickens me to the core of my being. But I know I'm the only one under 40 who cares. So what if China owns our debt and we make nothing? At least we have television to keep us entertained.

[ED WHITFORD]

This topic connects on every level of every thing.

I work for a tier 1 supplier to GM, It is sad that half of the people building them could never afford to pay for them. The more & more I look at things the more I belive that we as a country are tyring to live beyond our needs, My self included. Alot of those things we may never actually use but they are what I call a statase simbles. Eventually we all will be out of work here in the U.S. as more & more work leaves this country.

I think the only way we could ever hold down a good quality toy train manufacture here would be to have a small company of about 10 persons who are there for more of the enjoyment than a job yet get paid enough to live within thier means. Have each of them own a small part in the company. granted this company would only be able to produce so many models( heres a problem) to keep cost down (another problem).

By the time they pay for Insurance (head guy has to have his boat), presses to manufacture a good quality train ( the press MFD has to have his sprots cars), The cost to keep the lights on & fuel for the 10 persons to get to work ( CEO's of oil,gas & power companys have to have thier privet jets & vacation homes in the Carribian, Italy , French alps & such ) Heck all of those persons never spend thier money here any way.

OPP'S SORRY FOLKS PIPE DREAMS MODEL TRAINS HAS BEEN DERAILED, WE WILL BE CLOSEING OUR NORTH AMERICAN OPERATIONS & SELLING OUT.

Sorry for the long post but after reading it I hope that i could make a vallid point in a round about way.

It is true that the rich keep getting richer & the poor get poorer & the middle class is lost in the shuffle.

I do apologize to any I may have offended, Just working in the U.S. auto industry is not the job it used to be.

Thank you & take care.

[marxalot]

Yes. I am using Gargraves track because I get sick and tired of seeing Made in China............. now that Williams GG1 I'm waiting for will have that all over I know. So I do what I can.............. but I'd pay more for a train made in the USA.

Jim

[Frank53]

Americans did this to themsleves by wanting everything at the lowest possible price. It's impossible to manufacture items paying more than slave labor at the prices Americans are willing to pay.

To answer the original question, all the trains I have an interest in were made in the usa between 1946 and 1957.

[hugoroundhouse]

How should I say it?

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Positively!!!!!!!!!!!!! You bet!!!!!!!!! Darn right!!!!

I'm tired of my hard-earned money going overseas for anything. It's time all Americans realize we are ALL DEPENDENT ON EACH OTHER. When those guys at Ford lost their jobs (or GM or Kraft ), they weren't the only ones affected -- we all were.

When Wally World or any other conglomerate moves into a small town and descimates the local businesses simply because of lower priaces, it throws not only those guys out of business , it takes their income away from the pool available to go to the dentist, buy a new washer/dryer, buy health insurance, etc.

If we want to succeed and keep our country strong to pass on to our kids, we need to make sure our neighbor is working and earning a liveable wage.

Jim

[Anonymous]

When the Chinese start building car factories in America like the Japanese then we are in deep do-do.

[dougdagrump]

It is my understanding that all of the Weaver line, except steamers, are made in the U.S., so the option of buying domestic manufacture goods is available. [^]
As far as Wally World is concerned Sam was one hell of a businessman, but with his death I believe the company has become EXTREMELY predatory in its practices. The founder took great pride in the "Made In USA" label, but today I doubt that you would find one anywhere in the store. [soapbox]

[Odd-d]

You can say what you want to, but when the average American looks at the price the last thing that cheapskate is going to consider is the country of manufacture. Not only that but there are those among us who are more interested in buying a model of a specific prototype that only one manufacturer makes whether in China or here. You can be as sanctimonious as you please but you will still hire illegal immigrants to work cheaply because it is rationalized that Americans are too good to do the work the illegals do and buy foriegn cars. Go ahead, you big patiotic working men, put your thumbs in your armpits and talk about how you will pay more for products made in Amrica, but the truth is the jobs (especially Lionel's jobs) went to China because you all were buying Chinese trains from Lionel's competitors. Buy American? Haw! Haw! What a joke! When it comes time to dig out your money you will buy the cheapest trains out there. Sorry, but that's just the way I see it. Ask yourselves WHY did all the jobs leave the country? YOU BOUGHT THE IMPORTED MERCHANDISE. Odd-d

[Roger Bielen]

Probably not. The price of engines has almost forced me out of the market and the continually rising price of rolling stock is not far behind. At this point I believe I'm going to have to be content with the engines I have and think twice about rolling stock. I've already ceased any passenger consist purchases.

[nitroboy]

If you like Made in the USA products, my telegraph poles are hand built, right here in the good old USA. I have a shop here in Ohio, and a shop in PA. I only have 3 employees, all family, but I try and buy all my supplies from the USA when possible.

And I like to think my prices are very resonable.

[jonadel]

I would if the quality was as good and it had all the bells & whistles. I'm a bit surprised that someone hasn't mentioned Harley Davidson. I've always wanted a Harley but it's always the price that scares me away but yet they have no trouble selling their product. They finally figured out quality control and look at 'em go now, for the same bike you will pay at least 75% more for the HD when comparing it to an import (Japanese). It took a long time for HD to get where they are today, they did produce some awful products for years

It's also interesting to see how muscle cars are making a come back. Every July we go to The Good Guy's Car show and the money invested is just incredible and all those products are made here. I know I've over simplified this and perhaps it couldn't work with toy trains but with World Class Customer service and quality control I believe it could work.

Jon

[DCmontana]

Guess which nation is the largest exporter in the world? The USA! Now if every nation in the world adopted the "Made in my country only" label, where would we be? Whether any of us like it or not, we have a world economy. Listening to many of you, I think that Freshman Econ 101 would be a good choice! I like to buy American too, but very few products are actually "made" in country of origin. It takes over 100 countries to contribute the parts and raw materials in an automobile. I drive Fords and probably will always do so, but have had some other cars. Only one of foreign manufacture and that was a Toyota station wagon I bought new in 1977. Ran very well and after 100,000 miles I sold it for half of what I paid for it. As technology continues to advance we adapt or die. The world doesn't owe any of us a living, we have to make a living!

[lyle_styles]

Great question!

If the costs where not greatly increased, I would try to buy American.

I stronly believe in the saying, You get what you pay for.

I also want to give everyone who posted on this question a thumbs up. Great responses on a topic that could get rather heated.

Thank you kindly,
Lyle R Ehlers

[ED WHITFORD]

I wounder how long did it take us ( the U.S. ) to get to this point, to where a lot of our jobs & money to go over seas 20, 30 years? I think it will be interresting to see where the countries are going to be in that time? Will they end up just like us? I think the root couses of this every one has hit a few times. how is it that things can be made so much cheaper over there than here, Dose any one have an idea as to how much things cost there versuse here.

I would gladly buy things that are made here & that promote the made in the U.S.A. But the fact of the matter is this they got what we want so we will buy it. There just is not enough of the pre/post war models around any more, to support a growing hobby. If you get any of them & they need fixing do you think the parts you get are going to be made here or there. I think that most of the new commers to the hobby are going into other gauges & most of it to is built over there. To many persons who are new to the hobby want all of the electronic stuff.

Unless you have grown up around the mechanical e-units, battery operated horns or air whistles you do not appreciate the simplicity of them. I wounder if a manufacture started to build trains the old fashion ( 30-40 years ago )way if we would see a price change.
I would be completely happy with engine that has new tooling but operates the old fashion way, the simple way.

[Anonymous]

i'll pay more for a product that is worth more. i buy american if i have the choice, unless the american company has a bad reputation; then comes the balancing act.

when i buy tools for myself; i always get the good stuff, usually american. when i buy tools for the employees to use; they all seem to be made in china.

i drive what used to be an "american" car (chrysler). it seems they had to use a japanese motor (for dependability), and assemble it in mexico (to keep the price down to 30k).

concerning trains: i have a couple of loops of track that were manufactured in china. now that the prices have gone up again; it looks like i'll be handlaying my own, right here in america.

i cannot afford the new chinese trains, so i end up buying used american. so much for cheap labor.

[cnw1995]

I heard Walmart pulls in $35 million per hour, and it's getting so foreign-owned automotive manufacturers employ more Americans than GM and Ford - Chrysler being more German I guess. I wi***here was a sort of magic-wand law one could pass that said something like half of everything you want to sell here - product or service - has to be made here so everyone could have a decent job. Then I could see the arguments about how you'd figure it all out. But can we just continue the post-WW2 consumerism... I mean just how many toy trains does one need (rhetorical question).

[prewardude]

Yes, but only if the quality was there. Remember Lionel's quality control under Gary Moreau? It was pretty sad - and a good portion of Lionel's line was made right here in the U.S. The 0-4-0 B6 switcher reviewed in the current issue of CTT is a good example. It is more than $100.00 less now than it was in 1997 - and the quality of the current model is way higher than the '97 version.

[tsgtbob]

Ok, morality check here!
Being a primarly 2 railer and postwar operator, I really don't have the issue of running made in China items.
Much of my rolling stock is Weaver, as are many of my locomotives. In some cases, I have bought stuff made in China (Atlas O SD-35, MTH FP45 and a GP-15t ordered) But given my preferences my $$$$ goes to Northumberland PA! What's the answer, Who knows. In a capitalist society, market pressuer will dominate. Japan found that out, when cars from Korea, Electronics from both Tiawan China, and Communist China started to eat their lunch.
Also, for those old enough to remember the Cold War, China is STILL a communist country. Let the Govt. support for the workers, factories, and infrastructure fail, the whole house of cards will collapse, in a very catastrophic manner!
At that point, where does that leave Wally World?[xx(]

[Anonymous]

Doesn't matter whether some folks here say they would be willing to pay more--probably a LOT more--for U.S.made toy trains (doubtful that they would carry through with that commitment in any event); the fact of the matter is that toy trains will almost certainly never again be mass-produced in the U.S. Those days are gone, kaput, fini, and there's no turning back the clock. My guess is that when China becomes too costly in terms of labor and materials, you'll see whatever manufacturers are left relocating to India, Pakistan, or some other nation in the Middle East or in Southeast Asia. Then the cycle will repeat itself.

[darianj]

If it is of good quality, Yes.

[3railguy]

I like the products coming out of China for their fine detail more than anything but there are some quality control issues because this stuff comes out of low paying sweat shops. Yes, I would pay more.;

One thing I do miss is the trains that came out of Hillside and Mt Clemmens were a lot simpler and rugged than what we are getting today but then they aren't as well detailed. My tastes are mixed but I give the simplicity of postwar the nod.

This is why I hate new cars because they have a ton of stuff to go wrong. I drive a 69 C-10 truck with manual tranny, brakes, and steering. That's about all it has and that's all that can go wrong with it. Because it isn't crammed with so much stuff like new trucks, it's easy to fix just like our old trains. I replaced a water pump in it off the side of the highway once. Took 30 minutes and cost $45.00. Forget that with a new truck. It would of taken 30 minutes waiting for a tow truck alone .

One thing that has me scratching my head. In my N scale collecting and operating, Kato engines which are made in Japan, generally preform better for me than Atlas and Intermountain which are made in China. A number of N scalers will attest to this. They are all priced the same but Japanese labor rates are much higher than China's.