UP sues MTH - LOL!

[Jamesh1083]

I agree, Bob. But it was still fun to say it. :)

[Bob Keller]

Reality check, guys.

No traffic manager is going to ship by Union Pacific - or not ship by Union Pacific - based on whether or not someone runs UP gear on their model railroad. The time when there may have been a positive publicity impact from a freight car or diesel on a 4x8 train table advertising a particular railroad is long past. Today, if you take a passenger train, it is Amtrak; if you ship by rail, you go by the tarrif and timetable.

If UP has a publicity weak spot on this issue, it is with the mainstream media smearing them as a bunch of spoil sports. There won't be much impact from a group of train guys refusing to buy UP engines or refusing to talk about the Union Pacific. This isn't 1950, and it is all about the money. Show the railroad a tangible negative cost of this program, and they'll probably rethink it.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jamesh1083

This entire topic is very interesting to read and I know it incites a lot of passionate discussion at the local train store. I drafted an e-mail, which I'll share here, but probably wouldn't actually send it to them. Here's what I'd say to them:

Hello Union Pacific,

I have a fairly small living room floor layout of O-gauge trains and I've been following your lawsuits against the toy train manufacturers, demanding licensing fees.

I want you to know that I will not run, nor will I display or talk about any of my Union Pacific engines or train cars until you give me the name and address of the person in your organization that I can send the bill to for advertising your products by using them. This advertising benefits you but I reap no profit from it and have decided enough is enough. I am also going to be requesting compensation for the railroads you have absorbed, the fallen flags, since you now own them and the advertising rate will be the same, in spite of the fact that you've done nothing to upkeep the image or profitability of these older railroads.

We can work out the details of compensation after you agree to open negotiations.

Aw, time to get a little daring. Just sign your name and send it. I'd be interested is seeing if/how they'd reply to it.

[Jamesh1083]

This entire topic is very interesting to read and I know it incites a lot of passionate discussion at the local train store. I drafted an e-mail, which I'll share here, but probably wouldn't actually send it to them. Here's what I'd say to them:

Hello Union Pacific,

I have a fairly small living room floor layout of O-gauge trains and I've been following your lawsuits against the toy train manufacturers, demanding licensing fees.

I want you to know that I will not run, nor will I display or talk about any of my Union Pacific engines or train cars until you give me the name and address of the person in your organization that I can send the bill to for advertising your products by using them. This advertising benefits you but I reap no profit from it and have decided enough is enough. I am also going to be requesting compensation for the railroads you have absorbed, the fallen flags, since you now own them and the advertising rate will be the same, in spite of the fact that you've done nothing to upkeep the image or profitability of these older railroads.

We can work out the details of compensation after you agree to open negotiations.

[Demon09]

Personally I don't have too much against UP..... I mean I don't in any way support the lawsuit at hand, I think that they should be happy for the free advertisement, because from what I've seen in the few short years I have been in the hobby is that the UP has some of the biggest representation in model trains of all scales, whether directly in the UP logo, or through its subsidiaries and shortlines acquired over the years. It also tends to make UP a household name because it becomes so widely recognized by modelers, their families, and their friends that come to see the layouts.

On the other hand I don't blame them for wanting to protect their image. They are probably the biggest railroad in existence today in North America, and they have that reputation to maintain. However, I think that if its true that they are calling for reparations and the destruction of all products bearing the logo, that is complete overkill. It is understandable that maybe they would want a set license to produce the logo so that they can oversee that it is done right and set standards, but to charge outrageous fees or to push such harsh litigation is abhorable......

I have a family friend that works in the public relations department for Union Pacific, the next time I speak with her maybe I will see what the PR department has to say on the issues, and let her know how things look from our third party perspective......

[Bob Keller]

Good. [:D]

[3railguy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ogaugeoverlord

Not trying to start a flame war, are you John?

Of course not. I was just stating my opinion of it all.

[Bob Keller]

Not trying to start a flame war, are you John?

[3railguy]

This old news and was published in Model Railroader months ago. The article reads the UP wants custody of all unsold MTH stock with the UP logo so they can destroy it and wants damage fees for all sold MTH stock. My guess is a UP employee bought an MTH engine and fried the board when the battery went dead. He must feel MTH's inferior products are scarring the UP's image.

[phillyreading]

Seems that if Union Pacific has their way they will own a couple of model train companies after all the lawsuits are settled.
So far it seems like Atlas, RMT and Williams are not affected by the U. P. lawsuit.
I think that it is just a waste of time for this type of lawsuit to go forward, reminds me of McDonald's & the hot coffee lawsuit-pure garbage!
Lee Fritz

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that if you have a dance, you have to pay the band. I wonder why it is that people who willingly pay $1600.00+/- for a "Big Boy" are worried about how much of thier purchase price went to satisfy a copyright issue?
I myself and more concerned with how much more my gasoline to get to the train store now costs me each time I forget something or just need a "Drool" session, but, as in the first statement of this post, when gas hits $4.00 per gallon, I'll still be driving to the train store to pick up that item or two that I just HAVE to have and get in some Drool time.

blabree

[Anonymous]

I am not a lawyer and am curious how Lionel can continune make more UP related items if they are in bankruptcy. Does it have to do with getting themselves out of bankruptcy so they can pay? Another related thing I've heard is that the Lionel Hallmark Christmas ornament this year is a UP turbine. Maybe Hallmark is setting itself up for suit by the UP.

Another thing about this that interests me is what about the "Historic" (i.e. pre-1920 moved back thanks to Disney) paint schemes that have passed into public domain. Are these still owned and controlled by UP? Do they own all rights to the Promentary Point joining of the transcontinental photos? What about contolling the news photos when one of thier trains hits a car at a crossing. Does UP control those?

If this works out for UP, I am going to start charging people who take my picture. Yes from that point all stores with Security Cameras, Newspapers, DMV's and so on will be required to pay a fee for use of my image as well as my house, my cars, and anything else owned by me. Just like UP.

Yes I know it is a little extreme, but hey liscencing fees add up pretty quick. Just think if everyone does this we all can get rich from these fees it will bring up the whole economy. Maybe I can start charging others to here my voice on the phone and to read my posts on this forum........

[willpick]

As of the first week of May, MTH was in the process of filing a brief with the court that asks for a summary judgement in favor of MTH due to the UP's non-use for so long of the fallen flags symbols & trademarks. If this fails, then the trial goes forward. UP vs. Lionel's suit has been and will remain suspended until Lionel emerges from bankruptcy, if and when that occurs----

[Anonymous]

Good! I hope the UP gets (if not more than at least) the same amount of money that Lionel paid them!

[Anonymous]

I agree. UP should be banished from using a symbol like the seal.Its of if they want to use any symobl and not pay a fee, but if someone else did that, its WRONG!

[Anonymous]

The Spokesperson claimed that they did not want the Union Pacific to be misrepreented in any product.

Andrew F.

[Anonymous]

I don't think UP cares quite that much as to the complete accuraccy of the models made but what they really want is some cash kickback.

I think that people who are upset about this UP issue should complain to their representatives about the G.H.W. Bush engine in Airforce One colors. It has the presidential seal on it as well. The paint colors used and design of the seal is rightly owned by the people of the US. The UP should not be allowed to profit on licsenced versions of this engine as they have been in other scales. I as a US taxpayer should have some say in this.

[Anonymous]

There has been no update about a settlement or an agreement between Union Pacific and Lionel. If you review Lionel's Volume 1 2006 Catalog it appears that the O Scale UP Locomotives and Cars are accurate representations of the railroad. On the other hand, the O Gauge Union Pacific Center I-Beam Flat Car in the Canadian Pacific SD90MAC Set is not quite right. Apparently the less expensive cars do not always get the most realistic and accurate markings. I hope that UP employees will tell someone at Lionel that the Center I-Beam Flat Car has mixed up markings. The first UP Center Beam Flat Car that Lionel produced about 10 years ago had markings that were far from being the standard UP lettering practice.

MTH has made some Union Pacific freight cars for the Premier Line that seemed to have a base or body color mixed far too dark. One of these is the UP PS-2 2-Bay Covered Hopper. The Gray is so dark that the Black lettering is very difficult to discern from more than 3 feet away. Are the people of the Union Pacific going to get tough on all these strange representations of their road just like what has been quoted by spokespeople?!

Andrew F.

[Bob Keller]

John, I don't believe that Lionel has signed an agreement with UP, either, and UP sued Lionel for the same thing some time before they sued MTH.

[Anonymous]

Well, this is old. well, thats all i have to say

[Anonymous]

I hope UP cleans their clock. At least Lionel obeys the law.

[Anonymous]

If the Union Pacific Railroad actually has the Minneapolis & St. Louis as an actively trademarked and copyrighted name and design, then they should do us a favor and have the next 10 new Locomotives painted for the Minneapolis & St. Louis.


UPRR employees then need to apply the Minneapolis & St. Louis Emblem to 250 Box Cars and 250 Hoppers.


That would be enough to indicate that the M&St.L is still an active corporate image.

Andrew F.

[csxt30]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mike DeSandro

BNSF, NS and CSX all have licensing agreements.

Mike : I don't believe N&S has any agreements. At least not the kind that gives them money for. I could be wrong, though. My buddy told me they encourage the use of their logo, if I understood him correctly. Maybe he will be along shortly !
Thanks,

[tdetmer]

I agree with Alan and others. If UP is going to gouge modelers, then only those really want UP flags should pay for them. Personally I'm boycotting UP at this point over their ridiculous treatment of modelers. I certainly don't want to indirectly pay UP because the manufacturers distribute the UP's licensing costs over all of the models they sell.

Tom

[Anonymous]

I think it is bad P.R. on the part of U.P. I model U.P. exclusively in O/3rail. I have felt like I am getting screwed really bad by U.P.s decision. I first noticed the effects of the licensing program when I bought an Athearn Ford 'c' stakebed truck. The U.P. model is a buck more than the others. I started buying U.P. stuff several years ago, before the licensing issue came up. I often wish I would have chosen another road, but it's too late now. U.P. has brought back some of the fallen flag logos, albiet modernized, just too have a legal justification for charging for the use of these logos. BNSF, NS and CSX all have licensing agreements. They also cover the use of the fallen flag logos. If you are interested in knowing which logos are covered, you can go to the respective web sites. I already looked them up several months ago. U.P. is not the only bad guy here, from a model railroaders point of view that is.

[1688torpedo]

Andrew-[swg][swg][swg]

[FJ and G]

Andrew,

Great idea [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D

[Anonymous]

Seth Geim of The Train Barn always called them the "Onion Pacific".

Manufacturers need to to start printing "Onion Pacific" on the Models and replace the Shield with a big Onion.

Andrew F.

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dbaker48

[#ditto] A long time desire! Sure would foul up the resale market though, huh.

The resale market desperately needs to be fouled up.