UP sues MTH - LOL!

[prewardude]

I've noticed that Bob's "sticky thread" about the latest lawsuit has been posted for over 10 hours now, and yet nobody has started a thread commenting on it. So... I thought I would take care of that here. Personally, I find the whole thing rather amusing; yet another plot twist in the soap opera that is the modern model train business. The manufacturers are just like a bunch of little kids, always getting themselves into trouble. [(-D]

Regards,
Clint

[prewardude]

Oops, never mind - I just found the thread about this here:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=54314

[okiechoochoo]

I read in MTHs response that you couldn't sell UP models for more than others. Funny, manufacturers are doing just that in HO and N scales, what is wrong with MTH thinking they can't

[Anonymous]

Where did you see a response from MTH? I haven't seen that anywhere.

But certainly MTH can ask more for UP items than for items bearing some other livery. Other manufacturers in various scales are already doing just that--Aristo-Craft, Kato, and a number of others. If people want UP items, and assuming some customers continue wanting them, let 'em pay a premium for them. The costs have to be paid by someone, so they might as well be paid by those who support UP's policy.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if the N.Y.C , Pennsey, New Haven etc and other great railroads are going to follow suit?........Oh wait all the other Great RailRoads are a thing of the past.[:(] I guess the U.P. must feel mighty High on the Hog.[2c]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardsushi

I wonder if the N.Y.C , Pennsey, New Haven etc and other great railroads are going to follow suit?........Oh wait all the other Great RailRoads are a thing of the past.[:(] I guess the U.P. must feel mighty High on the Hog.[2c]

You are missing half the point here, because UP isn't just charging for their current and historical trademarks. They are also in control of licensing all of the fallen flags they have absorbed. These include SP, WP, MoPac, D&RGW, and C&NW among others.

My understanding is that CSX also does licensing, but they are nowhere near as heavy handed as UP. So, if you are a fan of the fallen flags of the east, you are much less likely to get whacked, at least for now.

[1688torpedo]

I do not understand the U.P.; At one time the railroads were happy to let the Toy Train Companies use their logo's on Toy Trains.Plus, its also free advertising for the railroads that they never would have had otherwise. I hope the Judge throws this case out the door where it belongs!

[Anonymous]

Maby we should "bill" Up because if we have cars with any UP logo on them, we are advertising for them!

[Anonymous]

Maybe I am missing the point here, Are there any other railroads that are doing the same thing that we arent aware of? [#oops]

[Anonymous]

Although other railroads also have licensing agreements with model manufacturers, and others, NONE have terms that are anywhere near as restrictive as those imposed by UP.

[Anonymous]

It goes to show, that UP is arrgont and wants the all mighty buck!
Lets send them a bill of a billion $$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[laz 57]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1688torpedo

I do not understand the U.P.; At one time the railroads were happy to let the Toy Train Companies use their logo's on Toy Trains.Plus, its also free advertising for the railroads that they never would have had otherwise. I hope the Judge throws this case out the door where it belongs!

[#ditto]

This is a bunch of CRAP if you ask me?
laz57

[laz 57]

OH yeah one more thing these judges should give out signs to these people like JEFF FOXWORTHY saying "I'm STUPID".
laz57

[Anonymous]

this could be a good thing, a judge will look at this and past lawsuits and throw them all out!

[Anonymous]

There was an excellent article on copyright issues in Fine Scale Modeler about 12 years ago. If I can find the specific issue I'll post a followup. The courts have ruled that a company has to aggressively protect it's trademarks or lose them. They do need to establish some form of license rules to garantee this protection. They can and have to do this to protect the UP marks, both current and past. I have no problem wih this.

Having said that, UP's pubic comments on their "program" go way beyond the protection of trademark. What they are engaging in is pretty close to extortion particulalry with the fallen flags. They went out of their way to eradicate the images of the fallen flags they absorbed. Their attorneys are now trying to "resurrect" these so they can collect on use of these trademarks. They have no intention of making branded items for these companies themselves but view this material as an "asset" and feel that they can collect on issuances of memoriblila. The whole point of a trademark is "brand identity" and these "brands" are dead. I'll bet they would start singing a different tune if someone starts to sue them for liability issues on those same fallen flags.

[FJ and G]

I have stated all along what Allan has said. The toy train companies should charge extra for just the train companies that want fees. As of now, MTH and others are penalizing everyone, as they spread the prices out evenly.

--------

To be consistent, UP would need to recoup 100 years worth of "stolen" logos. That would require America's police force to break down the doors of millions of model railroaders who poses these illegal UP trains, as each one of us was party to illegal transactions.[:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Jumijo]

Give me a tender, frieght car or passenger car with LIONEL LINES on it any day. How about a diesel loco, painted and lettered like a UP, but different words, like Lionel Pacific or MTH Pacific? Who needs Union Pacific anyway?

Jim

[jonadel]

Amen to Jim's comment. Maybe I could just customize my own train line with my computer printer, hmmmmmmm, it's good to be the King!

Jon

[1688torpedo]

This Issue brings up another good point & that is the Toy Train Companies should offer Undecorated Kits of Certain Steam,Diesel Engines & different freight & passenger cars for those who like to make their own customized trains or want to model their favorite railroads that are not made by the companies at all. I think that this would be a good idea as there are many here on the forum who like to decorate their own trains for their layouts & that this seems to be a segment of the market that is overlooked by the companies. Take Care.

[dbaker48]

[#ditto] A long time desire! Sure would foul up the resale market though, huh.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Torpedo said "This Issue brings up another good point & that is the Toy Train Companies should offer Undecorated Kits of Certain Steam,Diesel Engines & different freight & passenger cars for those who like to make their own customized trains or ..."

I wonder if the Toy Train Companies avoid undecorated because we would not then need to buy as many cars that are the same except for the different names.

Jim H

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dbaker48

[#ditto] A long time desire! Sure would foul up the resale market though, huh.

The resale market desperately needs to be fouled up.

[Anonymous]

Seth Geim of The Train Barn always called them the "Onion Pacific".

Manufacturers need to to start printing "Onion Pacific" on the Models and replace the Shield with a big Onion.

Andrew F.

[FJ and G]

Andrew,

Great idea [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D

[1688torpedo]

Andrew-[swg][swg][swg]

[Anonymous]

I think it is bad P.R. on the part of U.P. I model U.P. exclusively in O/3rail. I have felt like I am getting screwed really bad by U.P.s decision. I first noticed the effects of the licensing program when I bought an Athearn Ford 'c' stakebed truck. The U.P. model is a buck more than the others. I started buying U.P. stuff several years ago, before the licensing issue came up. I often wish I would have chosen another road, but it's too late now. U.P. has brought back some of the fallen flag logos, albiet modernized, just too have a legal justification for charging for the use of these logos. BNSF, NS and CSX all have licensing agreements. They also cover the use of the fallen flag logos. If you are interested in knowing which logos are covered, you can go to the respective web sites. I already looked them up several months ago. U.P. is not the only bad guy here, from a model railroaders point of view that is.

[tdetmer]

I agree with Alan and others. If UP is going to gouge modelers, then only those really want UP flags should pay for them. Personally I'm boycotting UP at this point over their ridiculous treatment of modelers. I certainly don't want to indirectly pay UP because the manufacturers distribute the UP's licensing costs over all of the models they sell.

Tom

[csxt30]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mike DeSandro

BNSF, NS and CSX all have licensing agreements.

Mike : I don't believe N&S has any agreements. At least not the kind that gives them money for. I could be wrong, though. My buddy told me they encourage the use of their logo, if I understood him correctly. Maybe he will be along shortly !
Thanks,

[Anonymous]

If the Union Pacific Railroad actually has the Minneapolis & St. Louis as an actively trademarked and copyrighted name and design, then they should do us a favor and have the next 10 new Locomotives painted for the Minneapolis & St. Louis.


UPRR employees then need to apply the Minneapolis & St. Louis Emblem to 250 Box Cars and 250 Hoppers.


That would be enough to indicate that the M&St.L is still an active corporate image.

Andrew F.

[Anonymous]

I hope UP cleans their clock. At least Lionel obeys the law.