K-line Plymouth vs. Ready Made Toys-- Beeps

[Anonymous]

A lot of very informative stuff here about the BEEPS. Please allow me to add
a few idea? I have many different models of these locos. I first got a few of the
Williams models. He had better (longer reach) placement of the pickup rollers,
two can motors, and a BUNCH of lead weight instead of traction tires. Mine will
almost pull trees down! I had a coupler swing issue (before it was fashionable)
and fixed it like everyone else by enlarging the sing opening on the pilot. I then
purchased a few of the TaylorMade models (including the "L" ones) and motorized
them with both the seperate-sale power chassis and an old Williams chassis
(which are straight drop-ins). The newer Taylor chassis had a problem with
shorter distance between the power rollers and sometimes (rarely) stalled on
my Lionel PreWar 022 switches (Yup!) These chassis have a traction tire on them
and my solution was to add weight (fishing sinkers) to the inside of the shell to
make the loco sit "tighter" on the rails. I used sinkers because a) they ar readily
available in my area and b) they come in several sizes and if you buy small ones
you can easily find places to fit the weights without interfering with wiring, e-
units, etc. and you can distribute the weight a little better than lead blocks.

After weighting mine down I have had no problems with stalling or derailing.
As for the newer chassis with the shorter rollers, the only solution I can think of
is to MU or add a "roller car" as others have done. Maybe this is an item to be
brought to the attention of Walter Matuch at York? He is a nice guy and seems
interested in his customers.

Thanks

[brianel027]

Hey one more important point I should have mentioned

Early on, I noticed my Industrial Switchers were "changing gears" as they went over uncoupling tracks and Lionel switches. They'd be running forward, and then stall into neutral. I looked at the locomotive and realized that the roller pick ups did not have much room before they could touch the wheel axles. I wondered if the bumps in these tracks was causing the center roller to come into contact with the wheel axle, thus causing a momentary short, and therefore sequencing the reverse board.

So using either drafting mylar, styrene or shirt cardboard I fashion a narrow piece maybe 1/2 wide and long enough to reach both axles. I inserted this between the roller pickups and the axles, managing to insert this piece through the slots already in the plastic superstructure.

Whoa and behold, the problem with the e-unit sequencing was gone.

Now that I use DC current, this is no longer a concern, but might help some of you out. I realized a couple of my older Lionel Scout steamers were doing the same thing. So I pulled off the roller pickups and put pickups on the tender, running a wire soldered to the brass contact for the roller pickups and running the wire to the tender with a male/female plug between the two and enough wire that I can tuck it into the tender cab.

Just another pointer that might help some of you.

[Jumijo]

Brian,

If I haven't said so already, I think you do a heck of a job modifying your trains. Seeing them is a real treat, and always gives me inspiration to attempt a repaint of my own! [tup]

Jim

[brianel027]

Yes John, the Crayola version was just a slightly cheaper version on the same loco with no circuit board. All these locos were very light (although the regular run locos did have one piece of weight added) and all were unpainted plastic... most not very opaque due to low amount of color pellets added to the plastic.

As mentioned previous, my Lionel 027 switches have had some heavy chopping done to them. I also ran new feeder wired and made sure all points and rails on the turnouts had proper power. So once I added more weight to my Industrial Switchers and removed the traction tire, I had little problem with stalling. And I'm sure the wheelbase is no longer on the Ind. Switcher than it is with the Beep. When I did have stalling, I knew it was time to either clean the loco wheels or the track.

Since going to DC operation and removing the circuit boards, the performance has gotten better. Although DC operation does have it's drawback for certain, it has tremendous plusses for the types of lower end locomotives than I can afford and run.



This photo is maybe 7-8 years old, but shows one of my redone Lionel Ind. Switchers. I added actual headlights and cablight, handrails. The windows are made from drafting mylar though I have since used the plastic from gallon milk jugs for this job. I have since drilled out a cone opening into the plastic molded horn, and have painted the steps white. In my excitement to get this loco done, I grabbed the wrong hearld decal... I accidentally used the older CNJ Liberty logo. The car behind it is one of my own "Toxic Waste" cars, from a 9-inch Lionel MPC flat car, using repainted/decaled K-Line crates with plastic domes from Radio Shack drilled into the top with 6volt minature CHRISTmas flashing bulbs inside. The warning signs on the sides are made from "L" shaped Plastruct with the labels made on my computer: printed on newspaper industry coated stock, glossed and glued on.

[poppyl]

I have no experience with Lionel switches and Beeps, but as I said in my earlier post, hooking two Beeps together will do the trick. Correcting the problem with the switch is not a bad idea, either, as it will help all locos run better through the switch. I hate to say this but the "cheaper" switches are more prone to this -- probably due to poorer quality and quality control. I fixed several Gargraves switches by realigning track, flattening frogs, and filing down plastic areas that stuck up too far. All of these caused the Beep to jump and short.

[marxalot]

In the March 2005 CTT there is an article called Switching without Stalling. There is a side bar on using another car with a powered truck along with a beep to solve the problem. It makes sense to me. But I was wondering.... if you go to all the trouble of making this other car, why not put the powered truck at the far end of the car? Sure the wires would be a little longer but your pick up point would be several inches away from any switch.... unless there is another nearby switch.... okay. stay with the near trucks.................

[poppyl]

I head end with either two or four Beeps pulling 20 - 30 car consists. Until I drop TMCC into the units, I'm running with the E's off to avoid problems mentioned earlier. I have run a single through all of my Ross switches with no problem. I did see some shorting on some of the Gargraves switches that I still use but the problem was with the switches (rails out of line across the switch, plastic too high relative to the track, etc.), most of which I have corrected. The short wheelbase of the Beeps magnified the problems with the quality of the switches.

Poppyl

[csxt30]

Briane, I'm wondering if I have that industrial switcher you mentioned. Mine is the Crayola crayons one. I have the whole set for when the little ones come, but it came with a different transformer, I think a DC one. It seems to run ok on my Lionel transformer too. Now, is this also in that category of switchers you mentioned ? Thanks much, John

[brianel027]

I don't have a Beep yet, though I know one day I will when my finances improve. I do though have several Lionel Industrial Switchers.

The Beep as is out of the box is by far a superior loco than the extrordinarily light weight unpainted molded plastic Lionel Industtrial Switchers for pretty much the same cost. I did at one time have some problems with stalling with the Ind. Switcher, butI removed the traction tire and added a lot of additional weight to the units. When I made the decision to run on direct DC current, I removed the circuit board reverse units out of the Ind. Switchers, which allowed room for even more weight. My revamped Industrial Switchers are capable of pulling more than 20 fast-angle wheel modern rolling stock, though that is to the extreme. I normally run 8-10 car trains with my Industrial Switchers (redone now in Conrail, Norfolk Southern, Central of New Jersey and Lehigh Valley).

I'm certain by removing the traction tire on the Beep and adding more weight, I'll have no troubles based on my Industrial Switcher experience. I also have 027 track with lots of so called "no-no's" in my layout design due to the small space including "S" curves made with switches, switches on curves and switches in immediate succession... all Lionel MPC era designed 027 type.

The K-Line Plymouth is a totally different bird and I don't think is comparable to the Beep other than being a small locomotive. I think the Plymouth will appeal mainly to more scale or prototypical modelers.. the fact it now comes with scale couplers makes that point. I don't care for the Plymouth, but I'm gald it's been made and that folks like it.

The Beep will have some appeal to scale modelers I suppose, but I see it as having a lot of appeal to budget modelers. Although the tooling has origins with Kusan, RMT did a fabulous job revamping it, and the roadname selection is almost unparralled. Sure, it would be nice to see some more new locomotive tooling in a less than full scale area, I suspect the best I can hope for are new locos with scale/near scale proportions that are based on smaller prototypes that will appeal to the broadest base of buyers... like the new Lionel Dockside Steam Switcher.

Considering the vast differences in the amounts of new product tooling on the sca;le and non-scale sides, I'd say (despite the possible flaws) the Beep is a very welcome addition to the market.

And maybe someone out there will be so unhappy with their Beep that I can pick one up sooner for a bargain price in my current spending range.

[Anonymous]

Please note...RMT BEEP has DUAL (two) motors not one. thanks.

[Warburton]

I treid my new Beep (just purchased) on the 027 portion of my layout (which has 2 modern era Lionel manual switches)with the folliwing results: it ran fine over one switch and hung up every time on the other -- both going straight, no thru the curve. If I ran it fast, it would go thru the problem switch -- sort of bounce thru it. Then I turned the Beep around and ran it short hood forward instead of long hood forward, and it ran fine thru both switches at any speed!

So, there you have it. This is not the only engine I've had with similar problems; I've had Lionel products do this, too, from time to time. I just go with the flow and try to remember each engine's idiosyncracies. I have a new Williams F-3 that doesn't like my postwar 031 switch either, if run in one direction. Run it the other way and no problem!

[jimhaleyscomet]

With help from others on this forum, I corrected the Beep stall problem by using a soldering iron to melt a solid wire into the frog of the switch from the entering center rail. Now my beeps never stall.

Jim H

[Anonymous]

I got a Reading beep last year. It ran to the first switch that it encountered,a nd then it stalled. I took it off the layout, and it never went back on. Now it heads up a two car "mini-train" on a siding on my desk at work. I don't like them, but I am sure there are things that I like that someone else does not like. The important thing is for the manufacturers to offer us lots of variety and we can pick and choose as we see fit.

One engine that I have chosen to pick up is the Plymouth. I got the Reading Plymouth with the coal cars (I call them coal cars, not ore cars -- but you can call them whwatever you want, and I think K-Line calls them ore cars...) Anyway, I love this thing!! It runs well, does not stall out on switches. Great lighting. Really looks good and looks sharp running on my partially finished layout. Really smooth runner. Great little engine. I have even designed into my layout a special "coal mine loop" of track that will be used primarily for the Reading Plymouth with its coal cars. They will go into the mine, come out behind the breaker building, and then loop back through the rail yard to make another run through the mine, and so on. K-Line's got the Reading Plymouth with the "ore" cars on special this week, for $100 a set, direct from K-Line. I like this thing so much, that I bought another set. I will try to run all 12 coal cars behind one Plymouth on the "mine loop" and then I have to figure out something to do with the other Plymouth.

I pre-ordered the Miller Beer plymouth that K-Line showed in their 2005 catalog. If I ever get it, I want to take the shell off (has anyone done that with a Plymouth? -- how easy is it?) and then build a new shell to resemble an actual electric mine motor (i.e., electric locomotive) that was used in the coal mines in the 1920's and 30's. http://www.undergroundminers.com/minemotor.html I am not sure how I would do, but i want to try. Probably would build the body out of balsa wood and then glue it onto the frame of the Plymouth. Not sure if that would work.

[Anonymous]

I have some experience w/ the Beeps and Plymouths. My Plymouth is a bit small for the o27 cars, looks "out of place". If you get the ore cars to match the Plymouth, it is better. Almost looks On30...

The Beep is nice, larger and colorful. It stalls all the time on my Lion 027 switches; but only in one direction. The reason is not the collector roller, but the outer wheel sets losing contact as the Beep traverses switches. One traction tire manages to insulate the wheel enough; the other loses contact (as the Beep tilts and lifts the contacting wheel) on the plastic portion of the switch. Try it, place your Beep on a switch and see how it rocks back and forth.

For the price, the Beep is hard to beat, and if you add TMCC the loco won’t reverse easily in a lash up as the original electronic “E” unit does. The Plymouth is all but impossible to add TMCC. Electro’s can be added to the Beep, but is a task.

I do not think of them as yard switchers. Just fun loco’s to enjoy.

SantaFeFan
Jon

[Jumijo]

The original poster stated that he thought the Beeps only have one motor. They have two, both with metal gears.

On a scale of 1 - 10, I'm satisfied somewhere around a high 6, low seven with my Beep. It's top speed is only a scale 40 mph, which I find odd considering its toy-like dimensions. I can see gearing it so kids can't run it off the tracks, but even our Thomas goes faster than the Beep. For the money, you really can't beat it though. A brand new O gauge loco, not a motorized unit, for under $50.

Jim

[Buckeye Riveter]

Although I don't own a BEEP, I have seen several in action and from my observations watching them pull long strings of freight cars there was not a problem.

Of course every company has a problem now and then. A new LGB Collector's Circus Car that I own has trucks that "catch" on the vesitbule steps. The grinding wheel is in my hand.

[jonadel]

Bignumber99--

Are you running your Beep's counter clock wise. I'll bet that the problem[:D]

I purchased the Santa Beep last year and she's a champ, worked fine out of the box and everybody enjoyed the small Christmas train she pulled. Certainly worth the $$$ and more.

Jon

[Anonymous]

GPJ:

I admittedly don't have/use anything approaching "many, many switches," so that larger layout configuration may, indeed, pose a bit of a problem for the BEEPs or other short-wheelbase locomotives.

[GPJ68]

Actually, in my case, double heading is worse - one will stop and the other will sit and try to push/pull the other, then I have to power down and wait for the e-units to cycle back, physically move both of them past the stall point, then start over.

What I'm pondering now, since I bought two to double up sometimes anyway, is to connect a wire between them to connect all four rollers. That should take care of the random stalling. Of course, I'm still stuck not being able to use one at a time as individual switchers, but at least they won't be gathering dust.

They're still neat little engines though.

Allan, I wish mine would run reliably like yours. It's definitely not a problem with the tubular track or a power distribution problem, but they really don't like my switches (all my many, many switches). Then again, maybe that's my problem - too many switches.... for a switcher......

GPJ

[SPFan]

Not only can you double head two Beeps or two Plymouths but you can run a Beep with a Plymouth. The speeds are very close (at least mine are) and they both start forward; running conventional. Kind of a Mutt and Jeff combo though.
As for the original question of whether they make good switching locos I agree without command and remote couplers they wouldn't be well suited for the job.

Pete

[Anonymous]

Good point about double-heading those BEEPs, Pete! Nearly all of the current RMT BEEPs are available in two numbers, so they can be doubled-up with both locomotives sporting different numbers. Operating in tandem, one should have no problem with them negotiating nearly any type of switch.

And at around $100 and change for two powered locomotives, it's still a darn good deal.

[SPFan]

The first generation RMT Beeps did have a problem with coupler swing on 027 curves. The magazines noted this in their reviews and the subsequent releases were modified to work on 027. I can pull 10 modern 6464 cars easily with mine on an 031 oval. I find the pulling power of the Plymouth to be nearly as good. The running characteristics of both are nearly identical you can double head the Plymouth with the Beep with no problem.

Pete

[Anonymous]

Rivet Counter:
So, did anyone try to restrict "99" from presenting his opinion? I think not! However, a response to his opinion is equally justified and just as valid, and he got one. No "forum cops" involved, so you may peacefully return to your rivet counting.

And 99's second post pretty much validates my observation about his way of presenting/discussing things, so it speaks for itself. That 4th paragraph is particularly revealing.

JPG68:
I noted in my first post on this thread that I operate my BEEPs on Atlas track and switches, and that I previously ran them on (Lionel) O27 track and switches. I have had no problems in either case (aside from the early TTC BEEPs and the very first RMT versions with coupler-swing problems). None of the currently in-production BEEPS exhibit the coupler-swing problem, and I'm not sure why you might be having switch-related problems. My experience with these locomotives and switches is obviously different from yours for one reason or another.

[csxt30]

He should have let Allen give his opinion. Go back to your other forum. Birds of a feather should flock together. Now who made you the forum cop ?

[GPJ68]

While I can't comment on the Plymouth, I do have a pair of Beep's, and frankly they've been real disappointments. While they are really sharp looking little engines and are a great buy price-wise for an O guage loco, on my layout -which is admittedly rough trackwork-wise - they won't run reliably worth a hoot. I've never been able to get them to run thru the turnout section of even one Lionel 1122 switch (and I have a bunch). I bought them originally to use as switchers for the yard area, but since I have all 1122's in that area, the Beeps are completely useless for my intended purpose.

Most of my other engines - couple Williams, 2343 Lionel's, a K-Line Allegheny, all run flawlessly throughout the entire layout and over every switch. The Beeps will randomly stall on almost any switch (Marx 034's, K-Line 042's) unless I'm really throwing alot of power to them, and sometimes that's not enough of a guarantee. Since they stall randomly and not consistently on the same switch or two, I can't really blame the switch for the problems. The only other engines that have random stall problems are my 1666 pre- and postwar locos, which use sliding shoes rather than rollers. And even they aren't quite as bad as the Beeps, since mostly the e-units just cycle, so I can get them rolling forward again with a few button punches. The Beeps seem to lose power completely and have to be physically moved on the track to get going again. It may be the Beeps close spacing of the pickup rollers that's giving me the biggest problems - that's the best explaination I've come up with so far. Either that, or the lighter weight (compared to most of my other engines) results in them bumping around alot and losing contact with the rails.

From my experiences so far, I can't unconditionally recommend them, unless you have flawlessly smooth and consistent trackwork with few switches - the higher quality, higher dollar types. Or if you enjoy having engines randomly stall.

I'm not about to give up completely on the Beeps just yet, since they are some of the few easily affordable engines out there in a really wide variety of roadnames. And they are just downright "cool" looking little buggers. There are a few fixes I haven't tried yet, such as adding more weight, or permanently attaching a freight car with an additional pickup roller wired to the engine. And I won't say they are "junk" - they just seem to be very finicky about track/switch conditions.

I believe the first run of RMT Beeps also had the coupler constriction problem that Allan mentioned as being common to the earlier TTC Beeps. I recall quite alot of commentary here and on OGR about the problem, and numerous requests directed to RMT to fix it for future runs. My Western Maryland Beeps are from the second+ runs, and while I can't get the engines to traverse the only 27" curves on my layout (the 1122 switches), they don't exhibit any binding problems when I physically drag the engines thru the switch with cars attached.

Wait! One correction. I've got one 27" Marx switch (the low profile plastic covered style similar to the 034's) on the layout that the Beeps will successfully traverse (I used it for the siding they're parked on), and will pull cars thru without derailing. So maybe I'll just have to eventually swap out all those Lionel 1122's in the yard area for Marx's someday, and finally be able to use the Beeps for my original intended purpose, as switchers, rather than parked siding queens. If I can just solve all the other random stalling problems.....

GPJ

[Anonymous]

bignumber99 is right on, let him give his opinion. You forum cops need to cool it, ok csxt30[:(!]

[csxt30]

Well 99' you need to improve your vocabulary quite a bit. Mostly clean & intelligent conversations here, though I monitor anything my son reads here first, plus there's other kids on this forum. You might fit in better on a certain other forum. I find Allen to be very knowledgeable , with excellent literary skills. He is a writer & a good one! I hear that garbage talk all day at work & don't think it should be here. I think you're here for the wrong reason.

[Anonymous]

ill refer to any *** thing i want as junk if thats how i feel about it... or is this forum a nazi kingdom too? when you become the forum moderator, let me know...

the real disservice to this hobby is the people who would rather stick their head in the sand like a blind timid little sheep and say and do nothing. if i find fault with a product, or dont like it, or whatever,... even if i like it, ill let others know.... wether you like it or not Alan. and I would hope others would do the same.

i emaild TTC (EDIT: i emailed RMT)to correct the problem since it was brand new, i was told to take a hobby knife and cut up the body around the coupler opening... a **** poor reply from a **** poor Mfgr over a **** poor product, over **** poor R&D (testing before production) Why wouldnt they correct the problem? I was willing to ship it across the river to Joisey... Why? because they SUK

im doing a disservice to my hobby? HAHAHAHAHA i dont owe this or any-other hobby anything... nor do they owe me... its strictly business, nothing more, no different then any other, ... and if they sell junk, ill call it junk.... IM not gonna kiss a manufacturers butt and swallow whatever they feed me just because "its part of the hobby" and they "bring us this stuff" that would be idiotic


EDIT: i just checked the box.... i was wrong... its not a TTC.... i must have wrote to RMT instead... it was a long time ago..
yes alan, its a RMT BEEP that cannot pull a single car around a curve.. so your wrong in your statement that RMT beeps are fine... maybe the newer ones, but not mine... and this version is duel motors....

[Anonymous]

BigNumber99 is certainly entitled to his opinion. Too bad it's the wrong one (that's my opinion of his opinion).

The RMT BEEPs should not be confused with the BEEPs previously (but not currently) offered by Toy Truck Collector (TTC). Those earlier TTC BEEPs did have coupler-related problems that caused them to derail cars on O27 curves. The newer RMT BEEPs do NOT have that problem.

Yes, they are fanciful locomotives. That is what they are intended to be and they make no claim to being "prototypical." Anyone who buys them should be aware of that going in. But they are great little locomotives and possibly the best motive power bargain in the O gauge hobby at around $50 each. They're also available in a spectrum of roadnames, with more coming all the time. Can't beat that with a stick! To refer to them as "junk" (or to refer to any manufacturer's products in that way), is just doing a disservice to the hobby and to the folks who bring us this stuff.