UP Making Friends The Hard Way

[brianel027]

Alan, I'm sure many here do have their own lives and there would little need to take anyone elses. The Biblical definition of prosperity is having enough to meet your own basic needs and then having some left over inorder to help the poor. Jesus didn't command us to give to ourselves or buy more stuff, but to give to the poor. Greed has little to do with this definition of prosperity and more with simply the love of money for the sake of money itself, in which enough is never enough. Of course, in our society and with the basic nature of mankind, these definitions are often altered and lines become blurred.

BTW, I'm not defending those who do terrible things and do them under the guise of the Bible. One read of the Bible will not tell you much. It's only when you spend time with the word that things start to be revealed. As Jesus said in so many words, the law is more for those who do not believe than for those who do.

You are right Alan in the the UP has rights to protect their logos, tradmarks and property from those who would infringe on them. Jim H's first paragraph above is very good and basically sums up the code of conduct for photographers. Most large comapnies have "legal law" on their side, but most won't bother with nickle and dime kind of stuff. This attitude seems to be changing though: as for example with the record companies aggressively going after private individuals for downloading music. This move seems to be aimed at an example of someone, to stop others by means of fear. Even with the music business, making copies for your own personal /private use has never been prosecuted... it's when people go to sell these items when the problems begin. In this sense, I liked the attitude of the band "The Grateful Dead" who never frowned on people making bootleg recordings of their live shows... they actually encouraged it. And despite this activity, the Dead only grew in status and popularity and continued with a lengthy career.

Reading about the various operational problems (in Trains magazine) the UP has been having in recent years, it might make better sense for the UP to focus on their immediate problems at hand. And those seem to involve providing timely quality service to their customers, rather than going after photographers, etc. Though it is within the UP's legal rights to do both, it makes far more sense for them (at least from this novice point of view) to devote more energy to their core reason for being a company in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Why do the CIA Need a lawyer!!!
They operate outside the law anyway.
Maybe UPeee hired her as a lap dancer

[lionelsoni]

Okay, we've had politics, religion, and now lewd defamation. I think it's time to stop reading this topic.

[okiechoochoo]

If every model railroader quit buying UP stuff it wouldn't make a small dent in UPs toilet tissue bill for a year. When are you going to realize that UP doesn't care about our opinion. Either we buy UP stuff or we don't, the choice is up to each person, but it doesn't matter to UP. They have proven in court they have the legal right to protect their logos and that is what they are doing.

[okiechoochoo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UnionPacific3985

I was stopped at a crossing in North Little Rock, Arkansas today and a UP freight with 3 SD70's crossed and on one of the locomotives this was spray painted on the side:
"Pictures $5.00, No Pay Expect Lawsuit" Isn't that the truth. I wish I would have had my camera with me.

See, some irrate "idiot" railfan went out an defaced UP property. That person needs some adult supervision. I would think it funny if UP caught him and made him pay to repaint the entire locomotive. With actions like this, no wonder the prototype railroads look upon railfans as a problem

[Anonymous]

so, how do you know some irate "idiot" railfan did the deed and not some irate idiot employee? or even an employee "doin as told" are you stereotypn railfans as idiots?

maybe the engine was scheduled to be repainted and were just having a laugh??

ever hear of a disgruntled employee?

i would laugh even harder if it was an employee that did it

[espeefoamer]

I just read the article today.The calendar in question was puplished by a Canadian and his mother.This calendar was for distribution in England.It consists mainly of historic photos.Utterly Pathetic claims in the lawsuit that ppeople might confuse this calendar for an official company publication.I don't think anyone buying this calendar would mistake it for the official PU publication[:(!][:(!][:(!]!

[AlanRail]

Tara Reid is upset that some condo complex is using her name in an ad saying

Tara Reid , Let it all hang out here ( or something to that effect).

She's upset because the ad makes it SOUND like she's a bit too loose. However, in the last seven days she has appeared in photos partying about town well " with her body parts hanging out!"

So here is a case of the exact opposite to the UP issue where UP is trying to protect their good image and Tara is trying to make an image.

I'm not getting the Jesus slant on this but I recall a copyright class in L-School where someone suggested doing away with copyright, patent and trademark laws. That that right, along with patents, is stated in the constitution was not enough to sway this student. So we considered the possibilities of no copyright, patent and trademark laws. The conclusion was that creativity would not cease but instead it would not be as robust ( not Tara's.)

Why would you take the time and effort to create for the joy of seeing your creation used by others without any credit for your efforts. Maybe we need to wait for the 24th century when the pursuit of wealth is not as important as personal acheivement.

[Anonymous]

Did anyone ever answer my half serious question about the museums that OWN equipment formerly owned by this company or predecessors. Can they fundraise using images of these without fear or what.

What is the statute of limitations on copyright. This company has been around since the mid 1800's. Would images that predate the cutoff be considered in public domain?

I know that a couple years ago Disney Co. and a few others had this date pushed back to protect early Mickey Mouse cartoons and images. Athough it seems wrong to do this as these laws were created to help the immeadiate family of the the origional holder and were not intended to last forever. They were designed to have an "expiration date". Can you imagine Leonardo Davinci's family still holding Reproduction rights to the Mona Lisa 500 years after it was painted. This is why you can go into any drugstore and buy the "name" brand as well as the generic or store brand of most over the counter drugs as well as many that need prscriptions .

These marks falling into disuse leads them to public domain after a certain point. This is why the RR has a sudden interest in reviving fallen flags. If they don't use them they go away. In my opinion it is a greedy play for fans nostalgia as a way of making some modest profits off of them.

I really disagree with a lot of the politics of the company recently, and they are playing politics you can not avoid it or deny that. The first that sticks out to me is the court case of not offering birth control pills for their female employees through the employee health planwhile out of the other side of their mouth paying for Viagara for the men. This is just one but there are several other things will not go though them right now.

i wuold be interested in hearing the FRA's take on all of this. It seems another, albeit slight excuse to avoid more mergers.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emmaandy

What would happen if say a Museum who happened to own say a restored UP engine and some SP engines along with some steam engines from the same roads decided to make a calender as a fund raiser and they had pictures of these engines in the calender. Technically they, the museum own the engines, can the UP still sue them over the fund raising profits?

What about writers of books on the history of the transcontinental RR. Surely images from that era have surpassed the cut off for copy writeable images.

The US park service has a pair of replica engines in Utah that reenacts the meeting daily. Can the UP sue them unless they remove UP and CP markings?

At the new(er) park at Disneyland in California several heavily modifyed former WP California Zepher cars have been repainted in the original scheme. Should Disney remove these marks before they and the tourists taking pictures of it have legal actions taken against them.

The California State RR Museum in Sacramento should close to the public just to stay on the safe side.

I have to turn my head away now whenever I see a UP train just to stay on the safe side. It gets dangerous sometimes when I am driveing. But if I never see the train I can't have bad thoughts that may land me in a suit.




(The abriviations UP, SP,CP, WP and the term California Zepher as well as the idea of a Transcontinental RR are all registered to the Union Pacific Railroad Company and can't ever be used without permission under extreme penalty for ever and ever and ever and ever into infinity and the end of time.)

Calm down! [:D]Maybe you better take a whiff of junctionfan's cedar[:D]
UP is not going to sue for nonsense, only people trying to make money off the name it has nothing to do with if it is company published or not. Up seems to respect their history I doubt they would sue a museum, many of which they help fund. Why is it always the big guys that get beaten on? Why the greedy evil UP, and not the greedy photographer/publisher who is clearly in the wrong? I dislike liar's-at-law, but this is not a stupid lawsuit, any company would do the same.
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

"....any company would do the same."

Then why aren't they? And why haven't they in the past.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emmaandy

"....any company would do the same."

Then why aren't they? And why haven't they in the past.

How about the company that tried to use a yellow "M"? The reason it doesn't happen often is that most people aren't that stupid.
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

When I was building my Santa Fe 1 1/2" scale GP-35. I visited the Santa Fe HQ to discus using their LOGO and paint scheme. They were more then happy to allow me to paint my diesel with their Freight Colors. In fact they gave me the information on the various paints to use and how to mix it. Not only that but I was introduced to a man who did paint jobs on the real things and he offered to painted my engine for me.
Both Southern Pacific & Santa Fe attended several of our meets and gave away several items to all the members.

I wonder if they would do that now ???

[Anonymous]

wow!! thats awesome!! i always loved Santa Fe :)

IMHO thats how a true "as American as apple pie " Company operates

PU is like the spoiled lil baby who wants to take its ball and run home... they are the soup kitchen "train nazi's" "no logos for you kid"

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BigNumber99

wow!! thats awesome!! i always loved Santa Fe :)

IMHO thats how a true "as American as apple pie " Company operates

PU is like the spoiled lil baby who wants to take its ball and run home... they are the soup kitchen "train nazi's" "no logos for you kid"

UP is letting people use their logo, since I can still buy products with it on it. UP has been very helpful with a question I had, they answered quickly and sent it over to the museum. You sound as if CSX, Amtrak, and others are not charging for licensing. Or are most railroads, with the possible exception of the BNSF a "train nazi"? Why should UP do all the work and you get everything free? While some things might be considered good will, people make these calendars and models with the intention of making money on UP’s logo. If UP did not charge for licensing anyone could use their logo or name and quality would drop, many companies might make models that use the wrong UP yellow and stand out from the rest of your cars, paint scheme’s would be invented, and it could not be pretty. The calendar, although different, is meant to show people that the UP is not going to stand for wrongly using the company name and logo.
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

Thanks for clearing that up UP rep.

Keeps us all on the UP and UP.

Drives the prices UP and UP for the rest of us.

Still trying to figure out what RAILROAD Company uses the Yellow M and is so dilligent about liscencing it out

[Anonymous]

[?]How does suing over a calendar drive the prices up?[?] Does paying a few extra dollars on an expensive locomotive really that bad? If the extra cost of UP equipment is too much for you I think you may need a cheaper hobby, maybe take up collecting dust bunnies.

Why doesn't it matter that it wasn't it a railroad? It still happened if you think that way about everything you are in trouble.

[espeefoamer]

I wouldn't mind so much if they only charged for use of the UP logo and name.It is theirs,and they are legally entitled to do whatever they want with it.My beef is over UP charging for use of railroad names that UP has bought out.These roads are no longer in existance,and UP does'nt use these names anymore.They only painted the "heritage" units because a judge told them they had to show these names were in current usage.Any fallen flag road name should be open for use by any model company,or photo use in calendars or books.Who would have to be paid if a company wanted to produce rolling stock lettered Rock Island,New York Ontario & Western,or Colorado Midland?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

I wouldn't mind so much if they only charged for use of the UP logo and name.It is theirs,and they are legally entitled to do whatever they want with it.My beef is over UP charging for use of railroad names that UP has bought out.These roads are no longer in existance,and UP does'nt use these names anymore.They only painted the "heritage" units because a judge told them they had to show these names were in current usage.Any fallen flag road name should be open for use by any model company,or photo use in calendars or books.Who would have to be paid if a company wanted to produce rolling stock lettered Rock Island,New York Ontario & Western,or Colorado Midland?

Why shouldn't they? UP did buy the names, or if not legally, it was dropped to lower the costs, and the heritage units make up for this. What is wrong with making money on logos since UP may want protect the name like I described in a previous post.
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

I love reading the feeble and flawed excuses the UP faithful consistently come up with to justify the actions of their favorite railroad. It's as if most of them haven't even read the many posts, here and elsewhere all over the Internet and in the media, that more than adequately demonstrate how UP's current policies are not at all similar to or consistent with the licensing practices customarily followed by many other corporations--rail and non-rail--many of which are far larger and better known than UP.

Support UP if you care to, and buy all the trains decorated in UP livery that you desire, but please don't shower the rest of us with tenuous justifications, and please be willing to pick up the tab for the associated costs, thus sparing the rest of us from paying anything for this scam.

And for you manufacturers out there: Yes, you're out to make a buck however you can in a small but competitive field. And, yes, you have shown a willingness, in some cases, to allow yourselves to be intimidated and bullied by UP. That's your choice. But if you've already caved and signed the dotted line with UP, at least be fair to the rest of us in the hobby by passing those costs along, as a premium charge, to those who consume UP-related products. A few of you are already doing that, and that's nice to see. Hopefully the rest will follow that lead.

UP earned and deserves the black eye it is receiving in the public arena and in the hobby, so it's only fitting that the issue be put in the spotlight--continually--whenever the situation warrants.

Just my personal opinion, but I imagine I have more than a few supporters in this regard.

[Anonymous]

Who's feeble? How about some facts? Scam? What has UP done that isn't normal as far as licensing goes? Point out some of our flaws. Can someone tell me how much this evil "train nazi" "PU" "Uncle Pete" charges for their licensing compared to other railroads? I think this shows who is in the majority. Yup lots of feeble people.
Here is a poll from the Model Railroader side of things.
James[C):-)]


How do rate the UP?
With a lot of criticism going around I wondered what the actually numbers are. So on a scale of 1 to 10 how do you rate the Union Pacific? With 10 being "I love 'em" and 1 being "They suck"

1
16% (9 votes)

2
9% (5 votes)

3
10% (6 votes)

4
2% (1 votes)

5
14% (8 votes)

6
3% (2 votes)

7
7% (4 votes)

8
12% (7 votes)

9
3% (2 votes)

10
24% (14 votes)

[tmcc man]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Munster518

So, since this guy is selling a calendar with UP pictures in it, wouldn't that benefit the railroad being that you are promoting it[:0]. And, why is the UP so upset? Whats next I wonder, ohh boy! I agree with TRAIN FREAK 409, you can't spell stupied without UP, HA.[:p]

Sincerely
John

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tmcc man

QUOTE: Originally posted by Munster518

So, since this guy is selling a calendar with UP pictures in it, wouldn't that benefit the railroad being that you are promoting it[:0]. And, why is the UP so upset? Whats next I wonder, ohh boy! I agree with TRAIN FREAK 409, you can't spell stupied without UP, HA.[:p]

Sincerely
John

How about we come out with a Model Railroader calendar knowing they put out their own, I am pretty sure it is a licensed name, and sell it for a large profit I guess this would be no problem since it does support Model Railroader. You guys need to think sometimes.
James[C):-)]

[tmcc man]

i agree with both munster518, and TRAIN FREAK409, and this is why i do not see UP on many of the roads i have seen. i am really suprised that Erik and Mike have not been talked to by the stUPid. besides the railroad color is way too dull, just yellow and gray, and it is all the way across the country, and frankly i have no interest in it and i am going to stick with the east coast roads.

if you have a problem with what i said Lotus098 holla at ya boy
did you take yer name from the car company lotus?
TMCC MAN out!!

[Anonymous]

UP has enough brains not to get Trains Magazine mad at them! Now you are just being silly the color has nothing to do with a policy on licensing. You should stay back there we don't need you out west. And yes my name does come the car company.

[tmcc man]

hey lotus don't come east joking .what is your favorite lotus the ESPIRIT, or the ELISE
and i dont mean licensing i think their colors are dull

[Anonymous]

The Lotus 7. I won't go back east, too many people like you.

[tmcc man]

lotus 7 i have never heard of it. you read R&T, andn C&D

[tmcc man]

what do you mean like me as in people like me as in a friend, or just as a rude person, because i do not think i am rude because i speak my mind, just say what you think please.

[Anonymous]

Nope I only read train magazines, they don't make the lotus 7 any more it is a little car with no roof no doors and it is beautiful, although a bit small for some. I meant too many, as in people with the same mindset as you (which since you agree with yourself may take that as a complement).


Time to get back on topic.