Interview w/ Mike W.

[mackb4]

MTH certainly makes some very nice looking items,but from my take of it MTH lacks when it comes to service.I've known a few people that are really unhappy when it comes to getting a loco fixed.I understand things aren't like they used to be with "Lionel service stations" of days past. All companies have gotten this "unconnected" approach with their customers though.The one thing that really struck me in a bad way looking at the article in CTT was the item on the courthouse replica.Isn't that alittle "boasting" in a mean warped kinda way ?In order to win over new customers from old time companies you can't hurt people that my just stay loyal from seeing something like that. One comment on Lionel's suit.Won't this hurt overall company gross from possibly losing business with K-line from sales that are already under contract ? I guess we will all have to see.

[Anonymous]

You know I am sick of everybody finding character flaws in the two biggest makers of toy trains.(Lionel and MTH) I have been collecting toys trains for about 20 yrs with my father. Yes, MTH does knock Lionel in some if its adds but that is advertising GM and Ford do it all the time and they both still have vehicle problems. MTH has done so much to improve O guage trains. Lionel has been to lazy for to many years and making sub quality products. Remember I still collect both. I have seen Lionel's Quality get so much better since MTH has raised the bar. Lionel's TMCC is disappointing once you have used and seen what DCS can do and Lionel has just now seen the light and Lionel if they were really so great would have done something before nearly ten years of TMCC with the avaiable technology. So we as toy train collectors need to stop bagging on the manufacturers and let them fight there own compitition battles, because Lionel has done this to themselves not MTH.

I will also let you know I visited the York train show this spring and Spoke to all the trains manufacturers (Atlas, MTH, and Lionel) and all gave me a positive feeling when leaving there area except Lionel. I spoke to one of the individuals asking when they were going to create something that could compete with the features DCS can provide. They said that is why we came out with railsounds 5. I thought that was quite discouraging that I have to buy an extra car for every trains set to get the extra sounds that is very very difficult to operate. I know it may have been the guy I talked but it seems to me that you would want to put your best foot forward and have your best people representing you at a show where you are going to have serious modelers and collectors. I am excited about tmcc 2 I hope it is all that I am hearing and might help restore my faith in the inovative company I grew up loving.

I think us as toy train collectors need to stay out of the fight of whos better, whos knocking who, and let them continue there compitition this a good thing for everyone of us. Lets help them make there products better and we can do that buy dicussing the product problems we our having amongest ourselves not bashing them. Buy what you like and run it and have fun. That is what the toy train market needs not end fighting among collectors remember this is not the car market our hobby does not have the customer base to handle this type negligence. There is so much more to come lets help them get there and continue to collect toy trains and spread the word.

[Anonymous]

Hello All: Good to see a CEO step up & defend his product & how he conducts business. From my personal opinion & experience I owna mix of everything. ( If I like it I buy it). The MTH customer service treated me like Gold when I needed operating Instructions for a C.P. set I had purchased on ebay. They sent me complete instructions within 2 weeks ( I had even offered to pay for them & the postage, They said not to worry about it ). With customer service like that, Guess what company I look to first ??? Kind Regards Steve

[RI Jim]

IMHO, I thought the inteview was fair and informative. Without getting into the "my train company is better than your train company" debate, I believe that Mike Wolf is truly forward thinking when it comes to the O gauge market. He is not afraid of introducing new models and new technology. At the same time, his company is offering "traditional" prewar/postwar style trains to please that segment of the market.

In the end, the O gauge train buyer benefits from competition in the marketplace. Mike Wolf, love him or hate him, is truly a competitor, and I admire him for that.

[cnw1995]

I agree, Adam. I am impressed with his enthusiam for the hobby um market. Isn't it interesting how one person has such an effect on the hobby.

It was also cool to read the extra interview information referred by CTT's email newsletter.

[cheese3]

I liked the interview I learned alot about MTH. They have some pretty good products. [tup]

[baltimoretrainworks]

What fascinates me is that here we are, grown men, practically coming to blows over TOYS !!!! Fine, you don't like MTH or Mike Wolf don't buy it. You don't like Lionel, don't buy it. You don't like K-Line, don't buy it.
We've all bought trains or had an experince that we weren't happy with for whatever reason but to be nasty about my choice of train, scale or manufacturer
because of your experiences is just childish, (I.E. If you buy, (INSERT NAME OF TRAIN MANUFACTURER), then I don't like you.). I've had fellow customers at my local train shop give me grief for buying Lionel, others for buying MTH and still others for buying Williams, I even had one guy tell me I was a fool for buying a B+O locomotive because they never had that particular version of that locomotive, (yes he was a scale guy).
Point is, I buy and run what I want. I have just about every manufacturer in my collection, old stuff and new. I'm happy with some dissapointed with others but it doesn't color my judgement of anyone or thing in particular, I just look at the next purchase a little more carefully and then decide if I want it and can live with its shortcomings.
My real complaint about anything is my new pool won't be finished until after Labor Day, like Roseanne Rossannadanna used to say, "It's always something."

[FJ and G]

I think that anyone who runs a business is going to put the best possible spin they can on the message. Even if someone's business is a hobby or their "love," the bottom line is that that business is out to make as much money as possible. To expect otherwise is not realistic.

The fact of the matter is that in all likelihood, CTT has an open invitation to the other train company owners. Mike took advantage of the opportunity. He is business savvy and realizes the power of the printed word.

[cheapclassics]

I only wish Lionel still made the O-27 cars they used to make. The only small car they still make is the two-bay hoppers, and even that is a little bit of a stretch. I do see where they are finally selling an operating helicopter car outside of a set.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana

[GPJ68]

Well, I just finished reading Mike's extra comments on the CTT website, and frankly some of his statements leave me less-than-impressed. Now, I've no intention of flaming or otherwise insulting or dissin' him (lower your claws, you rabid MTH fanatics). Just taking some issues with his replies as they relate to me personally.

"I'm a strong believer in supply and demand," Mike says.......But it is partially our responsibility to make sure we don't overproduce, which is why consumers have to order our trains in advance."

Sorry, but I buy product, not pictures and promises. At least by reading the various forums here and elsewhere, it seems that MTH can also claim to being the leader in broken production promises and blown shipping commitments. I too believe in supply and demand - I'll "demand" it only after it's in ready "supply" and can be viewed, tested, and the like. If I miss out because demand exceeded supply, then that's my tough luck (and a possible justification for the manufacturer to consider a second+ run to meet the additional high demand of a really successful item). Pre-order is a fine option to use for truly high $$$ very limited production run stuff (like the Acela), but not for a sizeable portion of the product offered in the latest catalog. If a dedicated manufacturer has that little confidence in their ability to predict the interests/desires of their targeted constomers, then why should I tie up my limited funds in pre-orders waiting to find out what they may or may not decide to produce? I'm interested in spending funds on what's available to run now, not available at some distant undefined point in the space-time continuum. Oh, and "....responsibility to .. don't overproduce....." is a reasonable statement, but how many times has MTH "failed to produce" at all, or "failed to produce" something anywhere near the original estimated delivery date? Where's the "responsibility" fall there?

Regarding Mike's comments on dealer inventory rotation, old vs new stock, etc - while the thoughts are reasonable and sound, he's the wrong person to be making them, when his company has done so much to shaft loyal dealers with the whole PS-1/PS-2 debacle, shaft loyal buyers with a long list of failed delivery/production promises, the interminable delay for DCS, and the like. That kind of established history is what has soured my taste for, and trust of, MTH. I do, and will continue, to purchase MTH products as they come available in the forms I'm interested in, but I'll never hold my breath or pre-order to wait for Mike's next distinctive, latest and greatest, groundbreaking, earth shattering, revolutionary offering - it may never make it into production. Retailers can't put new merchandise on the front shelves if it's not available from the manufacturer first. What should they put up instead - artist's sketches and fairy tale delivery dates? Or the competition's product that did make the trip from overseas? IMHO, Mike simply has no credibility to be making such suggestions to retailers when his own company has such a poor track record in providing the support for those suggestions. Clean up your own house first Mike, then you can start re-earning credibility to make such suggestions and be taken seriously. Give me some reasons to begin trusting MTH again, beyond your sincere interest in the hobby.

I do like his thoughts on "Tomorrow's train store" and in-store layouts, but then those are also the least applicable to me - I won't be "dropping by" my "local" dealers regularly, because the closest "local" is way over an hour away. Nice ideas though, and really does show his sincere interest in the well-being and continued growth and improvement of the hobby. I will readily give him the highest marks (and respect) there. Some of the "others" could take a few lessons.

Finally, as far as the outdated technology of Lionel 3 rail track. I'm not at all familiar with Mike's (or anyone's) latest two rail technology advances - has he developed a simple solution (as simple as "outdated" 3 rail) to polarity problems with reversing loops, complex layouts, and such? Or is it still waiting for enough pre-orders? Ok, maybe that was a little below the belt. He didn't predict the imminent demise of 3 rail, just a growing interest in 2 rail (due to his entry into 2 rail, naturally) - and a very slight dig at "low-tech" Lionel.

GP

[3railguy]

QUOTE: Seems to me that the only "bitter and divisive" attitudes are from the vocal minority on the forums!

Yes we are a vocal minority but I see no bitter feelings in this thread. People are decifering the hype and tossing pun at it. I read the interview and there is lots of hype. It reminds me of the old saying BS breeds BS.

[prewardude]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rivet Counter

Lionel would be much better off if he was the owner instead of the venture capital bean counters that now control it.

Bingo! When Lionel starts making Standard gauge again, they will get my money. Until that time comes, however, my hard-earned cash will be going to Mike Wolf. Like it or not, MTH has the most diverse product line in the business. Period.

[tgovebaker]

Its the old 80-20 rule. 20% of the market spends 80% of the cash. The vocal minority -- the folks here -- spend more, and thus get a lot of the attention.

Every company, however, appears to have recognized that the other 80% needs some attention as well, particularly if the hobby is to grow and thrive in the 21st century. Witness the reemergence of Rugged Rails, or the lauch of Atlas Trainman, to say nothing of the enduring popularity of classic O-27 stuff from L and K.

[brianel027]

Interesting observation Buckso. It is the vocal minority that is driving the hobby though I believe right now. Of the modelers I know, the clear unquestionable majority are non-scale non-command 027 operators. Followed closely by tubular o track traditional operators. TMCC operators make up less than 20% and DCS doesn't even make 5%. No one uses FasTrack. It's 027 tubular, followed by 0 tubular, followed by Atlas and Gargraves. I know one person using MTH's RealTrax.

Previous statements from the former Lionel CEO stated that starter sets and related starter items were showing the strongest sales increases. Dealers tell me that from instore sales, it is the lower end stuff that moves the fastest.

Therefore one could conclude that the catalogs are completely lopsided and that non-scale 027 non-command cars and locos should be the clear majority of items released. There should be loads of new non-scale shrunken 027 engines and maybe one or two scale ones with features. But read the train forums and you get the opposite impression: that the majority of modelers are full scale, full command operators. Hmmmm?

What's happening I think, is that the minority of modelers are spending the majority of dollars on train product. A family with kids with a traditional 027 layout does not live to see the new Lionel or MTH catalog and then order several thousand dollars worth of trains... even several hundred. they buy one engine every few years and maybe a couple of train cars a year.... the numbers of folks doing this may be higher, but it's the actual sales figures that matter.

But it's like this with other hobby's too... the majority get appeased, but the minority gets courted. I do believe the majority of train operators are not concerned with counting rivets or locomotive chuffs... they want affordable, well made trains (RMT seems to have figured this one real well lately). Also the train companies are in a very serious competition... you don't score points for putting out the same old thing. Lionel and K-Line did this at one time and have taken some serious slamming for it. You seldom hear anyone talking about how great the early K-Line product was... how they are looking forward to another S-2 or MP-15. How you wi***hey'd issue the current "S" gauge cars with 027 trucks too.

Also I don't believe any of the train guys I know are active forum posters. Maybe a couple sometimes. But like politics, you can't complain if you don't get out and vote. Here in trainland, the minority is clearly involved, vocal and votes regularly with their wallets, goes to YORK and post their opinions frequently on the various train forums.

[Bucksco]

"As Mr. Wolf said, word of mouth is important. Right now that word of mouth seems to be very bitter and divisive. That ultimately may be a greater loss."

Seems to me that the only "bitter and divisive" attitudes are from the vocal minority on the forums!

[garyseven]

"'Whatever happened to the monthly online chats that Jerry Calabrese promised?'

Best guess is he has nothing new to say at the moment "

Couldn't agree more... [|)]

[3railguy]

QUOTE: This thread has remained civil so far, but I can definitely sense the undercurrent of hard feelings coming through in some places. As I said before, it's kind of sad the chain of events over the years have led to so many hard feelings

Naw, I wouldn't call it hard feelings, Brian. To me, it's manufacturers challenging our buying decisions with hype. We are just reponding to the hype as we as individuals see it in our experience. To me, it's all fun and games like our trains.

[nblum]

"As Mr. Wolf said, word of mouth is important. Right now that word of mouth seems to be very bitter and divisive. That ultimately may be a greater loss."

Amen.

[brianel027]

This thread has remained civil so far, but I can definitely sense the undercurrent of hard feelings coming through in some places. As I said before, it's kind of sad the chain of events over the years have led to so many hard feelings - especially since what MTH should really being offering the hobby is yet another option... competition... more choices. Which has happened, but not without some cost.

I've heard Mr. Wolf speak and it was very obvious to me at the time that he really loves the hobby. I could see the boyish excitement in his voice. But it also seems obvious from all the articles I've read, that he appears to have ax to grind against Lionel for the sudden end of the agreement they had years ago for MTH to make the standard gauge reproductions.

Certainly MTH has copied a good many Lionel products. On one side, it showed these products could be made with quality and priced better than Lionel products. No doubt that made many consumers happy. But while having made clones of many Lionel products, MTH also made many new products (particularly locomotives) that had never been done before in 3-rail trains. But I think MTH overuses the word "innovation." Yes, they have done some innovations, like the design of their smoke unit and the solid chassis design of their steam locomotive frames. On the other hand, I hardly consider reproductions with copycat postwar numbering to be innovative.

When it comes to actual innovation, I think Lionel still has that one in their hands. But when it has come to basic product construction, quality and variety, MTH has changed the hobby. When CTT did a survey on the most important things to happen in the hobby in recent years, Mr. Wolf was on that list. I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that MTH has not made a contribution.

But that contribution seems to me to have faded a bit with the new civil war where the colors have changed from blue versus gray, to orange and blue versus purple and yellow.

I say what is better for one customer may not be better for the other. I can't argue that MTH doesn't make some decent quality trains. But they're not for me. And they're not for many others I've spoken with over the years for the same exact reason... they're too big. The quality of the typical MTH box car is better than many from Lionel, but I in the past going bought the Lionel starter set box cars and rolling stock because those are the SIZE of trains I want and need.

I like it when CTT reviews a "traditional sized" train engine like the recent Williams Alco’s, and lists under "Cons" that the size won't look right with scale sized trains! How about listing under "Cons" for the MTH and other engines that they are TOO BIG to look good on a small layout. This is the big deciding factor for me, and I've heard others say the same thing. I've been at shows and hobby shops when I've watched customers’ looking at the MTH stuff, exclaims it is too big, and then go purchase a car from Lionel. SIZE! Scale proportion should be listed under the "con" category. Not everyone wants full-scale proportions. For this reason and this reason alone, I haven't in the past bought MTH products. And their Rugged Rails line has been left to rust for the past 6 years until finally this year when the first new additions were added since the line was introduced. BTW I do have some Rugged Rails cars.

I've run a bunch of Railking locos on my layout including the Dash 9 and FP40 and they were all TOO big for my liking, though they did run very nicely - even without the speed control. I did really like the recent Railking SD90MAC, but not all the added electronics (and cost). I see this model has been added to the Rugged Rails line, so maybe if my money improves... maybe. But I'd have to see it first, and I don't see much MTH product in shops.

But I don't hate MTH. What I do dislike is the implication that their trains are better than everyone else’s. Not for me. Size matters, and the RMT "Beep" is one engine that is one my "one day to buy" list. Obviously with the success of the "Beep" others also agree.

MTH may have won the initial round in their legal battle. But whatever the outcome, they lost much of the good will and universal acclaim from the majority of train buying public that they once had.

As Mr. Wolf said, word of mouth is important. Right now that word of mouth seems to be very bitter and divisive. That ultimately may be a greater loss.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: My best guess is that Mike Wolf has him on the ropes and he knows it.

Actually, Mike wishes he had him on the ropes and pretty much stuck his foot in his mouth trying to give this impression as he contradicted himself in the interview. Rather comical reading really. Otherwise, the article on postwar Lionel F3's, the real stuff that MTH tries to copy, made the magazine worth every penny.

QUOTE: The Reading Company was at one time the largest corporation in the world. The only main line steam engine that Lioenl has ever issued with modern features for the Reading was the 4-6-0 Camelback a few years ago. What gives?

Sales. Reading has not been a big seller in any scale. You don't see it a lot. Color sells. With exception of the Bee Line Service scheme, Reading colors have been drab by comparison to more colorful roads such as SF, BNSF, GN, SP, etc.. The Lionel Reading T-1 from 1989 was my first die cast O gauge steam engine and it's always been a favorite because of the boiler face, pilot, and cab window styling. However, dealers had a hard time getting rid of them. Even below cost. Same goes for the Reading Trainmaster Lionel did in the early 90's.

[nblum]

"My best guess is that Mike Wolf has him on the ropes and he knows it."

I'm sure he's hiding in a corner of the basement, quaking in fear :).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nblum

"Whatever happened to the monthly online chats that Jerry Calabrese promised?"

Best guess is he has nothing new to say at the moment and is also quite busy defending his company against the great innovator :).

My best guess is that Mike Wolf has him on the ropes and he knows it.

[nblum]

"Whatever happened to the monthly online chats that Jerry Calabrese promised?"

Best guess is he has nothing new to say at the moment and is also quite busy defending his company against the great innovator :).

[Anonymous]

Whatever happened to the monthly online chats that Jerry Calabrese promised?

[Anonymous]

Did Lionel forget that there used to be a railroad called the Reading Company and that they were America's largest anthracite carrier? The Reading Company was at one time the largest corporation in the world. The only main line steam engine that Lioenl has ever issued with modern features for the Reading was the 4-6-0 Camelback a few years ago. What gives? I love Lionel accessories, and I am using their O gauge tubular track for my layout, but I have mostly MTH engines because they seem to recall that there used to be a railroad called Reading... For that matter, while I appreciate that MTH has put out so many Reading steam engines, did MTH forget that the Reading was a COAL moving railroad? Why has Lionel put out at least 6 major coal loading accessories and MTH has none (dump cars don't count as "major"). Lionel has the 97, the 397, and the 497 coal loaders, the Coal Tipple set, the coal ramp, and the AF Seaboard Coaler. Nothing like that from MTH. Wow, I guess we really do need several major O gauge train companies because each has its strengths and weaknesses.

[3railguy]

The interview was summertime filler material.

Actually, Marx made the first O gauge roadbed track except it was rubber.

He is convinced his product is not being dumped yet states he won't sell to Toys-R-Us because they make him buy back unsold product. He also admits to have stiffed dealers with PS-1 engines that won't move because of the improved PS-2 versions.

The most classic statement is he reverse engineers prewar Lionel and calls himself a leader. LMAO.

[nblum]

" And I believe that Milwaukie Bi-Polar is one of the most beautiful engines ever produced."

Personally I prefer the Lionel Phantom (any of the three) or Trainmaster Demonstrators but everyone is entitled to their opinion about what constitutes originality or beauty.

[nblum]

This and some of the postwar celebration, including space/military items may
interest the over 50 set such as myself:


6-31740 - 2519W VIRGINIAN DIESEL FREIGHT Nov 573.95 (Train Station pre-order price)

6-29613 - 6463 ROCKET FUEL TANK CAR Mar 35.95

6-29718 - 6419 WORK CABOOSE Feb 37.95

6-29827 - 3419 HELICOPTER LAUNCH CAR Jan 54.95

6-29828 - 3666 BOXCAR WITH CANNON Feb 54.95

6-29829 - 6805 ATOMIC WASTE DISPOSAL CAR Apr 54.95

6-29839 - 6512 CHERRY PICKER CAR Mar 49.95

6-29849 - 2460 LIONEL LINES CRANE CAR Feb 47.95

6-19572 - 6672 NEW YORK CENTRAL REEFER Mar 35.95

6-29719 - 6427 ATSF CABOOSE Jan 37.95

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trigtrax

IMO, Mike Wolf and folks like him represent the future of O-Gauge Trains. He's willing to take chances and try out new things. Anybody can make rehash Postwar and call something a 6464 but MTH is now the innovative force in O-Gauge.. Just look at subways, while Lionel keeps taking surveys MTH keeps cranking out sets. And I believe that Milwaukie Bi-Polar is one of the most beautiful engines ever produced.

I totally agree with the statement above! The latest Lionel catalog is disappointing to say the least. I was hoping that the new Lionel CEO would turn the company around but he appears to be all talk and no substance.

[nblum]

"He is a nice guy, and offers very nice products, that are so much better than Lionel's in my opinion. We don't sell much Lionel at all, because everyone wants MTH."

These are the types of wildly inaccurate, unfair, and self-serving comments that have contributed to the divisiveness in the hobby and industry, and incidentally earned Mike Wolf, MTH and their most ardent followers the public reputation they now have, which is not a good one, overall. It has obviously cost them sales and will continue to do so, IMO, as long as it continues and is encouraged.