Interview w/ Mike W.

[nblum]

"As Mr. Wolf said, word of mouth is important. Right now that word of mouth seems to be very bitter and divisive. That ultimately may be a greater loss."

Amen.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: This thread has remained civil so far, but I can definitely sense the undercurrent of hard feelings coming through in some places. As I said before, it's kind of sad the chain of events over the years have led to so many hard feelings

Naw, I wouldn't call it hard feelings, Brian. To me, it's manufacturers challenging our buying decisions with hype. We are just reponding to the hype as we as individuals see it in our experience. To me, it's all fun and games like our trains.

[garyseven]

"'Whatever happened to the monthly online chats that Jerry Calabrese promised?'

Best guess is he has nothing new to say at the moment "

Couldn't agree more... [|)]

[Bucksco]

"As Mr. Wolf said, word of mouth is important. Right now that word of mouth seems to be very bitter and divisive. That ultimately may be a greater loss."

Seems to me that the only "bitter and divisive" attitudes are from the vocal minority on the forums!

[brianel027]

Interesting observation Buckso. It is the vocal minority that is driving the hobby though I believe right now. Of the modelers I know, the clear unquestionable majority are non-scale non-command 027 operators. Followed closely by tubular o track traditional operators. TMCC operators make up less than 20% and DCS doesn't even make 5%. No one uses FasTrack. It's 027 tubular, followed by 0 tubular, followed by Atlas and Gargraves. I know one person using MTH's RealTrax.

Previous statements from the former Lionel CEO stated that starter sets and related starter items were showing the strongest sales increases. Dealers tell me that from instore sales, it is the lower end stuff that moves the fastest.

Therefore one could conclude that the catalogs are completely lopsided and that non-scale 027 non-command cars and locos should be the clear majority of items released. There should be loads of new non-scale shrunken 027 engines and maybe one or two scale ones with features. But read the train forums and you get the opposite impression: that the majority of modelers are full scale, full command operators. Hmmmm?

What's happening I think, is that the minority of modelers are spending the majority of dollars on train product. A family with kids with a traditional 027 layout does not live to see the new Lionel or MTH catalog and then order several thousand dollars worth of trains... even several hundred. they buy one engine every few years and maybe a couple of train cars a year.... the numbers of folks doing this may be higher, but it's the actual sales figures that matter.

But it's like this with other hobby's too... the majority get appeased, but the minority gets courted. I do believe the majority of train operators are not concerned with counting rivets or locomotive chuffs... they want affordable, well made trains (RMT seems to have figured this one real well lately). Also the train companies are in a very serious competition... you don't score points for putting out the same old thing. Lionel and K-Line did this at one time and have taken some serious slamming for it. You seldom hear anyone talking about how great the early K-Line product was... how they are looking forward to another S-2 or MP-15. How you wi***hey'd issue the current "S" gauge cars with 027 trucks too.

Also I don't believe any of the train guys I know are active forum posters. Maybe a couple sometimes. But like politics, you can't complain if you don't get out and vote. Here in trainland, the minority is clearly involved, vocal and votes regularly with their wallets, goes to YORK and post their opinions frequently on the various train forums.

[tgovebaker]

Its the old 80-20 rule. 20% of the market spends 80% of the cash. The vocal minority -- the folks here -- spend more, and thus get a lot of the attention.

Every company, however, appears to have recognized that the other 80% needs some attention as well, particularly if the hobby is to grow and thrive in the 21st century. Witness the reemergence of Rugged Rails, or the lauch of Atlas Trainman, to say nothing of the enduring popularity of classic O-27 stuff from L and K.

[prewardude]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rivet Counter

Lionel would be much better off if he was the owner instead of the venture capital bean counters that now control it.

Bingo! When Lionel starts making Standard gauge again, they will get my money. Until that time comes, however, my hard-earned cash will be going to Mike Wolf. Like it or not, MTH has the most diverse product line in the business. Period.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: Seems to me that the only "bitter and divisive" attitudes are from the vocal minority on the forums!

Yes we are a vocal minority but I see no bitter feelings in this thread. People are decifering the hype and tossing pun at it. I read the interview and there is lots of hype. It reminds me of the old saying BS breeds BS.

[GPJ68]

Well, I just finished reading Mike's extra comments on the CTT website, and frankly some of his statements leave me less-than-impressed. Now, I've no intention of flaming or otherwise insulting or dissin' him (lower your claws, you rabid MTH fanatics). Just taking some issues with his replies as they relate to me personally.

"I'm a strong believer in supply and demand," Mike says.......But it is partially our responsibility to make sure we don't overproduce, which is why consumers have to order our trains in advance."

Sorry, but I buy product, not pictures and promises. At least by reading the various forums here and elsewhere, it seems that MTH can also claim to being the leader in broken production promises and blown shipping commitments. I too believe in supply and demand - I'll "demand" it only after it's in ready "supply" and can be viewed, tested, and the like. If I miss out because demand exceeded supply, then that's my tough luck (and a possible justification for the manufacturer to consider a second+ run to meet the additional high demand of a really successful item). Pre-order is a fine option to use for truly high $$$ very limited production run stuff (like the Acela), but not for a sizeable portion of the product offered in the latest catalog. If a dedicated manufacturer has that little confidence in their ability to predict the interests/desires of their targeted constomers, then why should I tie up my limited funds in pre-orders waiting to find out what they may or may not decide to produce? I'm interested in spending funds on what's available to run now, not available at some distant undefined point in the space-time continuum. Oh, and "....responsibility to .. don't overproduce....." is a reasonable statement, but how many times has MTH "failed to produce" at all, or "failed to produce" something anywhere near the original estimated delivery date? Where's the "responsibility" fall there?

Regarding Mike's comments on dealer inventory rotation, old vs new stock, etc - while the thoughts are reasonable and sound, he's the wrong person to be making them, when his company has done so much to shaft loyal dealers with the whole PS-1/PS-2 debacle, shaft loyal buyers with a long list of failed delivery/production promises, the interminable delay for DCS, and the like. That kind of established history is what has soured my taste for, and trust of, MTH. I do, and will continue, to purchase MTH products as they come available in the forms I'm interested in, but I'll never hold my breath or pre-order to wait for Mike's next distinctive, latest and greatest, groundbreaking, earth shattering, revolutionary offering - it may never make it into production. Retailers can't put new merchandise on the front shelves if it's not available from the manufacturer first. What should they put up instead - artist's sketches and fairy tale delivery dates? Or the competition's product that did make the trip from overseas? IMHO, Mike simply has no credibility to be making such suggestions to retailers when his own company has such a poor track record in providing the support for those suggestions. Clean up your own house first Mike, then you can start re-earning credibility to make such suggestions and be taken seriously. Give me some reasons to begin trusting MTH again, beyond your sincere interest in the hobby.

I do like his thoughts on "Tomorrow's train store" and in-store layouts, but then those are also the least applicable to me - I won't be "dropping by" my "local" dealers regularly, because the closest "local" is way over an hour away. Nice ideas though, and really does show his sincere interest in the well-being and continued growth and improvement of the hobby. I will readily give him the highest marks (and respect) there. Some of the "others" could take a few lessons.

Finally, as far as the outdated technology of Lionel 3 rail track. I'm not at all familiar with Mike's (or anyone's) latest two rail technology advances - has he developed a simple solution (as simple as "outdated" 3 rail) to polarity problems with reversing loops, complex layouts, and such? Or is it still waiting for enough pre-orders? Ok, maybe that was a little below the belt. He didn't predict the imminent demise of 3 rail, just a growing interest in 2 rail (due to his entry into 2 rail, naturally) - and a very slight dig at "low-tech" Lionel.

GP

[cheapclassics]

I only wish Lionel still made the O-27 cars they used to make. The only small car they still make is the two-bay hoppers, and even that is a little bit of a stretch. I do see where they are finally selling an operating helicopter car outside of a set.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana

[FJ and G]

I think that anyone who runs a business is going to put the best possible spin they can on the message. Even if someone's business is a hobby or their "love," the bottom line is that that business is out to make as much money as possible. To expect otherwise is not realistic.

The fact of the matter is that in all likelihood, CTT has an open invitation to the other train company owners. Mike took advantage of the opportunity. He is business savvy and realizes the power of the printed word.

[baltimoretrainworks]

What fascinates me is that here we are, grown men, practically coming to blows over TOYS !!!! Fine, you don't like MTH or Mike Wolf don't buy it. You don't like Lionel, don't buy it. You don't like K-Line, don't buy it.
We've all bought trains or had an experince that we weren't happy with for whatever reason but to be nasty about my choice of train, scale or manufacturer
because of your experiences is just childish, (I.E. If you buy, (INSERT NAME OF TRAIN MANUFACTURER), then I don't like you.). I've had fellow customers at my local train shop give me grief for buying Lionel, others for buying MTH and still others for buying Williams, I even had one guy tell me I was a fool for buying a B+O locomotive because they never had that particular version of that locomotive, (yes he was a scale guy).
Point is, I buy and run what I want. I have just about every manufacturer in my collection, old stuff and new. I'm happy with some dissapointed with others but it doesn't color my judgement of anyone or thing in particular, I just look at the next purchase a little more carefully and then decide if I want it and can live with its shortcomings.
My real complaint about anything is my new pool won't be finished until after Labor Day, like Roseanne Rossannadanna used to say, "It's always something."

[cheese3]

I liked the interview I learned alot about MTH. They have some pretty good products. [tup]

[cnw1995]

I agree, Adam. I am impressed with his enthusiam for the hobby um market. Isn't it interesting how one person has such an effect on the hobby.

It was also cool to read the extra interview information referred by CTT's email newsletter.

[RI Jim]

IMHO, I thought the inteview was fair and informative. Without getting into the "my train company is better than your train company" debate, I believe that Mike Wolf is truly forward thinking when it comes to the O gauge market. He is not afraid of introducing new models and new technology. At the same time, his company is offering "traditional" prewar/postwar style trains to please that segment of the market.

In the end, the O gauge train buyer benefits from competition in the marketplace. Mike Wolf, love him or hate him, is truly a competitor, and I admire him for that.

[Anonymous]

Hello All: Good to see a CEO step up & defend his product & how he conducts business. From my personal opinion & experience I owna mix of everything. ( If I like it I buy it). The MTH customer service treated me like Gold when I needed operating Instructions for a C.P. set I had purchased on ebay. They sent me complete instructions within 2 weeks ( I had even offered to pay for them & the postage, They said not to worry about it ). With customer service like that, Guess what company I look to first ??? Kind Regards Steve

[Anonymous]

You know I am sick of everybody finding character flaws in the two biggest makers of toy trains.(Lionel and MTH) I have been collecting toys trains for about 20 yrs with my father. Yes, MTH does knock Lionel in some if its adds but that is advertising GM and Ford do it all the time and they both still have vehicle problems. MTH has done so much to improve O guage trains. Lionel has been to lazy for to many years and making sub quality products. Remember I still collect both. I have seen Lionel's Quality get so much better since MTH has raised the bar. Lionel's TMCC is disappointing once you have used and seen what DCS can do and Lionel has just now seen the light and Lionel if they were really so great would have done something before nearly ten years of TMCC with the avaiable technology. So we as toy train collectors need to stop bagging on the manufacturers and let them fight there own compitition battles, because Lionel has done this to themselves not MTH.

I will also let you know I visited the York train show this spring and Spoke to all the trains manufacturers (Atlas, MTH, and Lionel) and all gave me a positive feeling when leaving there area except Lionel. I spoke to one of the individuals asking when they were going to create something that could compete with the features DCS can provide. They said that is why we came out with railsounds 5. I thought that was quite discouraging that I have to buy an extra car for every trains set to get the extra sounds that is very very difficult to operate. I know it may have been the guy I talked but it seems to me that you would want to put your best foot forward and have your best people representing you at a show where you are going to have serious modelers and collectors. I am excited about tmcc 2 I hope it is all that I am hearing and might help restore my faith in the inovative company I grew up loving.

I think us as toy train collectors need to stay out of the fight of whos better, whos knocking who, and let them continue there compitition this a good thing for everyone of us. Lets help them make there products better and we can do that buy dicussing the product problems we our having amongest ourselves not bashing them. Buy what you like and run it and have fun. That is what the toy train market needs not end fighting among collectors remember this is not the car market our hobby does not have the customer base to handle this type negligence. There is so much more to come lets help them get there and continue to collect toy trains and spread the word.

[mackb4]

MTH certainly makes some very nice looking items,but from my take of it MTH lacks when it comes to service.I've known a few people that are really unhappy when it comes to getting a loco fixed.I understand things aren't like they used to be with "Lionel service stations" of days past. All companies have gotten this "unconnected" approach with their customers though.The one thing that really struck me in a bad way looking at the article in CTT was the item on the courthouse replica.Isn't that alittle "boasting" in a mean warped kinda way ?In order to win over new customers from old time companies you can't hurt people that my just stay loyal from seeing something like that. One comment on Lionel's suit.Won't this hurt overall company gross from possibly losing business with K-line from sales that are already under contract ? I guess we will all have to see.

[FJ and G]

Hi Mack,

I've had my TiU and a couple locomotives fixed without any charge at all (except to ship it there, they paid to ship it back). The people are very friendly. They don't fix it overnight or even real fast but I've been extremely satisfied. I've also had good experience with Lionel repair. Maybe I've just been lucky?

One other thing. That people are brand loyal or just like them all, in either case, I see it as enthusiasm for toy trains and nothing wrong at all. Heck, as kids, we used to read comic books and argue over who could win in a fight: Batman, Spider Man or Super Man. (of course Superman could take on the other 2). That's the early 60s. My understanding is that in the 50s, kids would argue over merits of AF Vs. Lionel.

In 60/ early 70s, I argued merits of Lionel over Hot Wheels, but I was in the slim minority, as most kids had slots and Hot Wheels.

By extension, this toy train company loyalty is just an extension of kids talk

[PaulEFudd]

It must have been the timing as I read the article right after I test ran my new Premier PRR J1A. This engine has the same horrendous whistle MTH put in 3-4 other PRR engines. And then I read in the article that Mike Wolf proclaiming that MTH has the best sounds? He either has not heard Railsounds 4 or 5 or he lives on another planet.

On one hand I admire Mike Wolf's enthusiasm, but on the other his constant singing praises of his own company's accomplishments get tiresome and downright misleading.

Paul

[Anonymous]

The manufacturers all have their good and bad points. Any person who adds choices to this hobby is okay with me. My one gripe, which covers all manufacturers, is that "Made in the USA" means something to some of us. I'd like Mike Wolf to address this. Perhaps just test run a line of boxcars Made in the USA? They'd be more expensive, but it's worth a shot, I do not know the cost differencial. While we sit here China is taking over the world!!

[Anonymous]

I saw in the last online chat with the President of Lionel that someone asked about moving production back to the USA. Jerry Calabrese answered that it is not for cost saving reasons that they make trains in Asia, it is because the technical know-how does not exist here anymore to make the products correctly. He did not elaborate on that point. I do know that Toyota just announced that they are moving a plant to Canada. They tried to open one in the south somewhere, and they found that they had to use pictures to try to teach the prospective workers how to operate the plant. Eventually, they concluded that those workers were too hard to train, so they are moving the plant to Canada.

[csxt30]

My understanding is that in the 50s, kids would argue over merits of AF Vs. Lionel.

Yes, some fond memories of AF & Lionel as I grew up in the 50's ! I had A lionel, & my best friend had an AF. How I used to love to go to his house & play with his train, though it seemed he didn't care much for it. Another funny thing though is he still has it & doesn't get it out or anything, & keep telling him I want to buy it. He says maybe when he retires he may get into it. Anyway we never argued over which was better, at least I didn't, cause I thought if I said mine were better, then I wouldn't get to play with his at all. Lots of fun back then ! Thanks, John

[Anonymous]

Mike Wolf seems to toot his own horn at the expense of other company's product line, pre-war, post-war and modern. If he has so much energy to pursue Lionel to the brink of bancruptcy, he should use some of it to convince congress and the Bush Admin. to save Amtrak and Social Security. We won't have to worry about trains, toy or otherwise, since most people won't be able to afford to buy the toy trains, and the passenger lines will have all but disappeared save the few short excursion lines.

[Warburton]

I'll never understand those in the hobby who are miffed at Lionel for going to China and swear they'll never buy "China production Lionel," while buying K-Line and MTH. Does that make any sense at all? I wish it was all still made here, but there isn't much left of anything-- trains or non-trains -- (unfortunately) that is.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: You know I am sick of everybody finding character flaws in the two biggest makers of toy trains.(Lionel and MTH) I have been collecting toys trains for about 20 yrs with my father. Yes, MTH does knock Lionel in some if its adds but that is advertising GM and Ford do it all the time and they both still have vehicle problems. MTH has done so much to improve O guage trains.

When manufacturers stop making blows at each other with their half truths, giving us less than promised, then maybe we will stop too. Just because GM and Ford do it doesn't make it right either. Mike's just going to have to deal with it until he changes his ways.

[Anonymous]

It's interesting how so many people in this hobby have lost sight about what a hobby is all about--or should be about.

And the end result is that this contemporary "golden age" of O gauge is, from all indications, now on a downward slide (the evidence is all around for those willing to step back and look at the big picture). And the ONLY person or entity folks have to blame for this can be readily seen by simply standing in front of a mirror.

[3railguy]

Right Allan, we stand back and see a confusing mess of incompatible technology and lawsuits. Manufacturers need to work on sharing the technology fairly and standardizing it. However they may claim, no single manufacturer is the leader in it either. All have contributed their share. There are some great minds in the industry and it is sad they are caught up in legal battles.

As it stands now, the incompatibility mess does not sell the hobby. Unless they are educated in it all, It confuses people and gives them grief. This grief is followed by aggrivation and flame wars. We should be able to buy anyone's engine and run it on anyone's control system. Unfortunately there are some egos that want nothing to do with this. and they really need to get over themselves if they want to see the hobby grow..

[Anonymous]

According to Tony Lash, Lionel is losing a bunch of money each month and can't go on much longer. They owe MTH 42 million plus interest. There needs to be a settlement like what just happened with K-line. The best for the hobby would be for Mike Wolf to get ownership of Lionel. I think that will happen before the end of the year.

[prewardude]

While it might be good for Lionel for Mike Wolf to get ownership, it would be BAD for all of us. We consumers need as much competition as possible. I'm a MTH fan, and I am also a Lionel fan. I am a fan of the hobby, period - I want to see as many manufacturers as possible survive and thrive.