TMCC??? DCC???? HELP ME!!!!

[92hatchattack]

Help, i have no knoledge about all this digital comand stuff-- no clue what system goes with which manufacture---- no clue how it works or what its capabilities are!!


Where can i go to find extreme, from the begining basic information on these systems???? I d really like to learn some more about whats out there....

One thing i have been wondering is that if i get a digital system, is there any way to hook it up to my excisting ZW, and still be able to use the ZW throttle???

Well, any help is better than no help.... thanks in Advance...

Joe

[ChiefEagles]

Buy DCS and then add TMCC Command Module and a connector cable [this is all you will need to operate both systems]. This is what I did and now I can run PS2 in command, TMCC in command, PS1 in conventional and all other conventionals. If you buy TMCC [with the needed parts to run it] first, then you have to buy DCS to run PS2 engines in command mode. Saves $$ in the long run.

[Jim Duda]

92 - If you do what Frank suggests, you most certainly CAN run the old stuff with your transformer handles. When it comes to wiring it up, there is plenty of help here. Once you jump in, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner!

[spankybird]

TMCC is made by Lionel and is license to some other manufactures for command control engines.

DCS is made by MTH and works with PS2 command engines.

TMCC entree cost of $100.00 will only allow you to operate your TMCC engines with the Cab 1.

The other cost you may end up spending is:

Power Master (to run convention engines from your Cab 1 = $66.00

TPC (300) (to operate PS2 engines in Conventional mode only) = $94.00

Action recorder (Make recordings of your favorite layout scenarios and play them over
and over again. Record layout scenarios using your trains and
accessories) = $62.00

You should also have a surge protector (Scott’s Odd-n-ends) to protect all your electronics = $50.00 (approx. – depending on which one you buy)

Total cost is now = $372.00

DCS does cost more but has all of the above built into it. = $270.00

IF you add a TMCCcommand base (to also control TMCC engines) = $45.00
Cable to connect TMCC command base = $20.00
Total = $335.00

You will spend the about the same amount. The one advantage with DCS, it will run both MTH and TMCC engines in Command.

The prices are based from:

http://www.hobbystation.net/tmcc.html

also check

www.protosound2.com

tom

[eZAK]

It depends on what engines you have now and what engines you plan to buy.

If you have MTH PS-2 and plan on buying more, then go with DCS.

If you have TMCC, PS-1, & conventional go with TMCC.

IMO, If you do not have PS-2 and don't plan on buying any then TMCC is the best and least expensive all around system.

[Anonymous]

Both,

Take your existing ZW and connect it the "Fixed 1" input of a DCS TIU (add a 10 amp quick blow fuse in the line between the ZW and the TIU. Run a pair of wires from "Fixed 1" out to your track.

You are now connected with DCS.

Connect a Lionel Command Base to the TIU via the special MTH cable. Connect the antenna wire from the Command Base to the Black terminal of the "Fixed 1" output. Plug the Command Base transformer to the command base and plug the transformer into the wall.

Your TMCC is now connected and connected so that you can operate TMCC locomotives from the DCS Handheld or the Cab-1.

You can now run DCS and TMCC or both at the same time, and can run virtually any manufacturer's Command Control locomotives.

You can also operate conventional from DCS. I can provide that also if you desire. It will take you another five minutes or so of wiring.

Once that is done, you can run virtually any 3-rail A/C locomotive ever made.

Please let me know if this is useful.

Thank you.

[92hatchattack]

that all sounded good, but i need even more asic than that \.. i need to find a good write up ... lol,

so are saying i can use the ZW hadles while still running in Comand mode???? having all the features still???

[4kitties]

Joe, depending on how you hook things up, you sure can use your transformer's throttles to control non-command engines in conventional mode. I haven't bought the TMCC command module and cable yet, so currently I'm running my PS2 engines in command mode and everything else in conventional mode. I'm using the variable outputs of the DCS TIU (track interface unit) which allow me to vary the track voltage from the DCS remote. I had no idea how quickly I'd be hooked on running my non-command engines that way. Jim is right, I wonder why I didn't do it sooner.

[eZAK]

so are saying i can use the ZW hadles while still running in Comand mode???? having all the features still???

NO

Command mode needs full power to the track!

But you can run comm. engines in conv. with the ZW handles.

[92hatchattack]

hmmmm, im wondering if Digital Comand is right for me for this basic layout.....

maybe i should tell you all what im looking to do with this basic layout, and then you can tell me what the best way to aproach it is ....

pretty mcuh what i want to do is build a multi scale 11'x6' christmas layout..... as far as the O scale goes, they will pretty much be running in either a circle or oval shapes.... im planning on havin 2 sets in O on the layout....There will be no complex switching or anything like that, but the locos will probaly be new Lionel and MTH, as i like both and see no reason for some of the preference wars i see from time to time, and probaly a few postwar from time to time. What i want to get out of these engines are the sound features and whatnot....This is where the part of me not knowing much about the systems.... Can i get most of the sound features in conventional mode that i can get in Comand??? What cant i do in conventional mode????

Point being, I want to get the sounds and functions that the loco is capable of, but use my ZW cause i just love the feel and the age..... is there mods that can be hooked up to the ZW to alow for sound functions of the loco???

on the inside of the O i plan on making a winter layout and sticking with an HO scale feel.... not alot of switching.... probaly just one HO pasenger type train that does pretty basic ovals, jaz it up a little, and then a seperate industrial line that maybe cuts threw town, and has a few side tracks in the industrial area, leading to buildginds and what not ......



in the future i woudl like to build a permanent HO layout where comand may be more necisary, but do you guys think its what i should be looking at for something simple like this winter layour????

[spankybird]

Pat Zak – I am not sure if you are referring to TMCC or DCS but with DCS you do not need full power.

1. if the DCS TIU is run from a fix power supply and not track voltage
2. Then you can run both command and conventional engines on the same track at the same time and control the conventional engine via the handles. Do not that if the command engine will only run as fast as the voltage is available to it. In other words, if you only have 12 volts to the track and you want to run the command engine a 60smph, you may not have enough voltage for that.

I have found that with two engines on the same track, the voltage need is fairly high anyway.



92 – Just one other note, if you are planning on HO, DCS can also control DCC (the HO command system).

tom

[Jim Duda]

QUOTE: Point being, I want to get the sounds and functions that the loco is capable of, but use my ZW cause i just love the feel and the age..... is there mods that can be hooked up to the ZW to alow for sound functions of the loco???

You will have to go Command if you want to get all the features out of your stuff. Other than lashups, I THINK the DCS sytstem will get ALL of the neat stuff out of TMCC. It will certainly give you FULL ACCESS to all the PS-2 features.

[ChiefEagles]

Think about your future. I got back into this hobby last year. During 2003 I was thinking and planning. "I am not going to mess with all of this command stuff." Then I got videos, books and talked to some of these guys. After quite a bit of studying, I went with DCS and then added the TMCC command module. Am I glad I went that way. I love my Lionel engines but MTH gives you all of the "niceities" at a lower price. I have a mixture of brands [I'm not brand loyal]. So, think "by looking over the hill" to the future and how you want to expand.

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen,

My son now has the spare TIU on the floor in his room and is operating about a 3x6 layout (two concentric loops of track0 in command with DCS (PS-2 Railking GG1 on Lionel Fastrack). He is also running his new Christmas toy, a Lionel Polar Express, via a variable channel on DCS.

He is 11 years old. I did hook it up for him, but he runs it.

Literally, "Child's Play"...

[Anonymous]

RAK402 mentioned plugging the TMCC Command Base transformer into a wall outlet,can it be plugged into a surge suppresor power strip ?

[Anonymous]

92 hatch, If you make it out to that March show, I will let you experiance TMCC first hand, Sorry, I dont have a MTH setup.

Chris

[Anonymous]

Rozy,

No, you should not plug the TMCC transformer for the Command Base into a surge suppressor. It interferes with the operation from a proper ground standpoint.

[ChiefEagles]

RAK, sorry but my Command Base has been plugged into a surge protector strip all along and so is several others. We have no problems. Maybe it is becasue we are all using a high quality surge protectors.

[tschmidt]

I use a high quality surge protector for everything. I wouldn't want to go any other way. Protect your equipment with a high quality surge protector.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Chief,

I will defer to your comments as you are obviously successful.

I have always been told, and heard examples of problems with plugging the Command Base transformer into a surge suppressor.

Obviously this is not the case.

Thank you for the information my friend!

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

RAK, sorry but my Command Base has been plugged into a surge protector strip all along and so is several others. We have no problems. Maybe it is becasue we are all using a high quality surge protectors.

And so do I, since the Lionel manual for TMCC instructed me to use a surge protector. From the manuals appendix:


And after running TMCC for over 4 years, with everything plugged into the surge protector, I continue to have zero problems.

[Jim Duda]

I don't think that all Power Strips with an integral Surge Protector are created equal...perhaps it's as simple as a "High Quality" one works fine for TMCC but the "dimestore cheapies" do cause problems.

What will help us is that if Chief, Buckeye, and all that have zero problems tell us the brand and approx cost of the kind they use and we could go from there...

[tschmidt]

APC Surge Arrest is the brand. (www.apcc.com) I don't remember the price but it wasn't cheap. You do get what you pay for.

Read the info on them when picking one out.

Tom

[Buckeye Riveter]

Since I have been re-wiring, the older surge protector with a shorter cord is now being used only for the accessories. This is what has been running the trains for the last month or more.

If was purchased at my favorite store, HOME DEPOT.

[spankybird]

Here is my [2c] and that is all that it is worth as I presently own TMCC. I do have friends that have TMCC and have had problems with the ground and their surge protector.

I believe you guys have hit it on the head, a good quality one works, cheap ones don’t .

[Anonymous]

I plan to start out with TMCC because I am going to start out with Lionel and you can get a command base and CAB-1 remote for just $95 to get you started. If I expand command control beyond that at a later time I will most likely add the DCS to it later. I will only be out the $47 that I paid for the remote and I am looking at keeping the price down for now.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Actually I like to combine TMCC and DCS engines on the same track. I do not make my DCS run my TMCC engines. I have one remote for each of two engines (one DCS the other TMCC). It beats having to select a different engine everytime I want to change speed.

Lionel TMCC can be had in a cheaper engine if you either join K-line club and buy a club engine or purchase a $100 Beep with TMCC installed (Search for "Beep" thread on this forum) . DCS / Protosound 2.0 engines can be had for $300 in a complete MTH set but you still need the controller to unlock all the features.

The lionel system is very easily moved from layout to layout. The DCS takes a tad more effort.

Jim H

Jim H

[92hatchattack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lehigh Valley Railroad

92 hatch, If you make it out to that March show, I will let you experiance TMCC first hand, Sorry, I dont have a MTH setup.

Chris

are you gonna be there both days???? I think i will stop by and take you up on that offer!! thanks! [:D]

[92hatchattack]

^^^ so what im getting from you guys is that when i do my layout i should just spend the $$$, get it, hook it up, and enjoy it....

From how it sounds i can get a whole system that cann runn tmcc and dcs for under $400 bucks, and i still have the option to run inconventional mode with the throttle of the ZW??? Sound to me like the best thing for me to do would be to just spend the money and build my layout with digital comand instead of changing my mind later on ... and hell, its only $400 .... i thought getting all the stuff was around 1k for some reason....

Lucky for me i wont even be starting this small layout for about 2 years from now, when i move into a house ... But im so behind in all this stuff that im starting early ...The way i look at it the sooner i start planing and imagining the more options i get to run through my mind ... By the time it comes down to actualy putting the layout together i will have everything planned, and have edjucated myself to the point where the wiring should be easy and i can just bang out the layout ....

Thanks to everyone who posted here, feel free to keep adding more info cause i will surely be following it ...

By the way, once again does anyone know where i could read more about digital comand???? At this point i really dont even know how much it can do, but im very intrested....

Thanks again!
Joe

[eZAK]

Joe,

Here are some other tips that might be helpful.
Start small with an idea of expanding!
Both layout and bench work design.

CTT & OGR both have good beginer books.

For TMCC check out Lionel's web site http://www.lionel.com/ForTheHobbyist/Findex.cfm
Or for DCS check out MTH's site http://www.mth-railking.com/us/dcs.asp

Also CTT; http://www.trains.com/search/content_search.asp?bMagFilter=1&idMenuCategory=4&chrKeywords=TMCC

And OGR, http://www.ogaugerr.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?search=action&keywords=Trainmaster
& http://www.ogaugerr.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=action&key=V-DCS-01