Who are the experts on the new Lionel CW80 transformer.

[ChiefEagles]

I have a used and a new [found it in box, never used] KW. Theya re great transformers. I love them. I probably don't need it but how much? Recommend them if in good condition.

[Anonymous]

I have a like new KW lionel transformer that I am willing to sell If sombody wants some good power for a reasonable price. Just email me. [e-mail].
Dave Roxin.

[ChiefEagles]

wolverine49, thanks for all the info [not long winded at all]. Been around this stuff since 1952 but was out of it from 85 until earlier this year. Things have really changed. What I do now is unplug my lead from the TIU [DCS] to the track I am running the conventional engine on. I use marked double banana clips on the leads from the CW80. I plug it in and just run the engine with the CW80 [bypassing all other equipment and all track sections are insulated from each other]. I checked the phasing with the other bricks and only get a very tiny spark and not the "weld" arching like out of phase. Never had heard about the light betwen the two transformers to check phasing [like in manual]. I do have a light on a lockon on each track section. This is suppose to help DCS signal too. You are right. They run old Lionel engines great [except for the old whistle in the Pensy turbine and it needs repairs]. Have not tried my new Williams SD90's with it. Think I will. You answered my questions. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Chief,

No doubt foolishly, I will take a shot at some of your issues. I have two CW-80's and I like them, although I'm not ready to discard my ZW's. The CW-80 is "unlike any other transformer, that Lionel has ever made," according to Lionel Tech Services. For anyone who has long experience with the ZW's, KW's, 1033's, etc., it seems just a tad quirky. One question is, are the quirks bugs or features?

Take the "slow throttle response. " I have heard that this is a "ramp up, ramp down" feature, designed to help keep rubber tires from being spun off the wheels, and/or gears (especially plastic ones) from stripping due to too-rapid accelerations.

One thing this new throttle can do, in many cases, is to allow you to stop your train at a station with sufficient power to allow the train to proceed forward again without cycling into neutral and reverse, etc. I don't know whether such activity is really good for the brushes and commutator. I hope it doesn't hurt anything.

The CW-80 may not trip the E-unit on certain loco's even when you want it to. I have been told that the cure for this is to have a small load on the transformer at all times. A single lamp, such as from an illuminated lock-on or caboose is supposed to do the trick. (Don't ask me why--I don't claim to understand any of this.)

The transfomer "behaves" at rest as if it is producing 20 volts but (almost) no current. I don't understand much about electical waveforms, but the bottom line seems to be that this doesn't seem to hurt anything. I have had techs from both Lionel and Williams tell me that, other than causing the sound system to emit a slight burp when the device is first plugged in, this causes no ill-effects.

The manual says to put the train on the track and get everything in readiness, set the throttle to its lowest setting, THEN to plug in the transformer, and you're good to go..

The biggest problem with the Owner's Manual" (available for downloading and printing at Lionel's website if you've lost yours) is that there are at least two and perhaps as many as three versions floating around. (I have seen three.) To some extent they are inconsistent with each other, and even internally inconsistent. For example, the diagram which shows the connection from transformer to track directly contradicts the written instructions on the same page. The correct wiring is Post "A" to the center rail, Post "U" to an outside rail. (I got this info less than two weeks ago by email from Lionel.)

Incidentally, I like the capability of hooking up through "double banana pins." If you color-code the pins with a little paint or nail polish, you can't go wrong, and you minimize the danger of twisting or otherwise breaking off the posts, which aren't built like they used to be.

My biggest piece of advice is to put your voltmeter back on its shelf and leave it there--it will just confuse the issue.

To set the "programmable fixed voltage" tap, first CONNECT THE ACCESSORY to the outputs. (Two out of the three versions of the manual that I've seen do not make this clear.) Imagine a 397 coal-loader as an example. With the throttle at minimum, press and hold all three buttons. Gradually increase the throttle. When the accessory is running at a satisfactory rate of speed (or lamps are glowing at the brightness you desire, or whatever) let up on the three buttons and bring the throttle back to zero. The new fixed output will remain where you set it until you actively change it again. In other words, don't worry about the actual voltage--just observe the behavior of the accessory and custom-tailor the "fixed" output to it. Some of us think that this is much better than a true fixed-voltage tap, which might be too high or too low for your particular accessory. (The 397 coal-loader, the one with the rubber belt, might be a poor example, in the sense that I would rather control mine with a throttle, rather than a fixed voltage. But it serves as an illustration.)

I won't even attempt to address the issue of "common ground," if any. What I have written above works for me, and I hope it helps others. I have noticed that many of the questions about the CW-80 (on that other Forum, of course) suggest that the owner has not read the manual carefully. Indeed, the manual could stand improvement but for the moment that's all there is as far as I know.

As for versatility, I don't have a whole lot of locomotives to test, but in my experience the CW-80 runs any Lionel loco I have ever put on the track, including any sound system from a pre-war air-whistle (if in good condition) to Railsounds-1, as well as my one Williams diesel. It will NOT run MTH/Railking Protosounds-1. Not even a little bit, in my experience. I do not have any experience with TMCC or DCS.

I do recommend letting your train run for, say, two minutes prior to sounding the horn, whistle or bell. Again, I don't know why, but when I do this it seems to work perfectly.

Sorry about the length, but this is a complex subject, which had me perplexed for a while, but I've grown to love the little beast, and think it's gotten something of a bum rap in some circles.

Hope this helps, good luck,

wolverine49

[ChiefEagles]

Got one with the Polar Express. Runs the post war conventional engines great. One problem is the Pensy turbine. Will not blow the whistle. Flashes the green light for over load. The KW's and the DCS will blow it OK. I know it needs replacing. Now to the questions. When I hit the direction button, it takes about 5 seconds for the transformer to cycle. IOW, the thing drops power and then about 5 seconds later, it builds the power back. Not suddenly but a fast from nothing to the setting. I also tried to set the accessory voltage using a volt meter. Will not work. It shows 19.53 V AC all the time. Even with all the buttons pushed down, green light flashing and handle all the way down and at any setting. So I checked the voltage on the variable side. It showed 19.53 volts with the handle closed. So I checked the other transformers I have to be sure the voltmeter was OK. It showed the correct voltages for all at the settings of the handles. So I hooked the CW80 to the track. Handle down, put train on the track and no voltage. Strange. Main question is: the response time suppose to be this slow when the direction button is mashed? [its not the eunits as the lights are off and then come up to brightness very fast after 5 seconds]. Also: Maybe somone can answer the crazy volt readings.