New Generation!!!, Just getting started and looking for some guidance.....

[spankybird]

QUOTE: posted by 92hatchattack

ok, there are some abveviations ive been seing around here that i dont know .. maybe you all can tell me what they ,mean......

TMCC
DCS
PSI
PS2
TIU
BPC

TMCC = ‘TrainsMaster Command Control’ is a command control system by Lionel

DCS = ‘Digital Command System’ is a command control system by MTH

PS1 = ‘ProtoSound 1’ is a sound system made by QSI for MTH engines before the year 2000.

PS2 = ‘ProtoSound 2’ is a Digital command and sound system for MTH engines for years 2000 and latter.

TIU = ‘Track Interface Unit’ is one of the two parts hardware for the DCS system. It puts the DCS signal to the track.

BPC = ‘Block Power Controller’ for TMCC. Directs track power from several sources to control conventional locomotives. Manage the power in your blocks from the CAB-1 remote controller. The BPC routes power from any TMCC TPC to any block of track. Eliminates the need for multiple power masters or TPCs on each block of track. Enhance conventional operation by connecting multiple blocks to one TPC allowing for travel across blocks without regard matching the voltage between them. Is programmable to channel power from 4 TPCS to two blocks or from 2 TPCs to four blocks.


Hope this answers your questions
tom

[prewardude]

92,

FWIW, if you're thinking about getting some Standard gauge, MTH is making brand-spanking-new reproductions of a lot of Standard gauge gems. Just remember that these are big trains, and require a lot of space - the minimum curve diameter is 42 inches, and the trains themselves are roughly twice the size of O gauge.

Here's a link that you might be interested in: http://www.mthtrains.com/catalog/list3.asp?cat=bz&line=Tinplate&type=rtr

Welcome to the forums, by the way! {:-)

[92hatchattack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin


92,

This is a prewar (WWII) trainset in Standrad Gauge, which is considerably larger than O. This particular set looks to be late '20s/early '30s. It is a common, small (for Standard Gauge) set, great for getting into SG with but not really compatable with the postwar Lionel stuff you are exploring. It is constructed from tinplated sheet steel (hence the term "tinplate") and uses as pretty primative (but nearly indestructable) motor. Parts can certainly be had.

Be aware that SG will be pricey compared to common O, that SG will take more room and time to get, and that SG is addictive as can be! If you dabble, you may get hooked (ask me why I know that!). [:D]

Peter Riddle did a very good SG primer called "America's Standard Gague Trains." You can search eBay's "Standard Scale" listings (in trains/toys and hobbies) for SG stuff (along with lots of things that don't belong there).

so its kinda common huh?? i thought it might be a little more rare being the age of it... i dont think im going to get hardcore into SG, but id like to maybe get an old SG like that just as a collectable ... im a sucker for antiques and that set just looked cool to me being so old and whatnot.....

[92hatchattack]

great advice everyone! .. ive signed up for Classic Toy Trains magazine and i will look into some books that you all recomended....

sorry for the long awaited response... busy time of the year ya know!!!

[Dave Farquhar]

92, there are two ways to learn this stuff. The first is to ask lots of questions, which you're doing and that's great, and the second is to read a lot. Check and see what your local public library has in the way of books and magazines. My local library keeps the past five years of CTT, and has at least a couple of dozen different books on Lionel and competing O scale trains, prewar and postwar. I recommend anything written by Peter Riddle without hesitation, but there's a lot to learn from just about any book out there, especially when you're first starting out.

You'll want to buy your own copies of some books eventually; but it's a good idea to read all you can for free first, so you can get a better idea what you like. Being two years into a mortgage and having a car payment and getting married in June, I can relate to your situation of having lots of interest and not much budget to match.

Oh, and before you buy anything off Ebay, watch a few auctions for stuff you like to get some idea of a fair going price. Also make sure you know what you're getting: Is it a fixer-upper or is it complete, did the owner test it, etc. I bought a lot of stuff early on without really knowing what I was getting and I ended up overpaying on some, and being surprised with what I got in other cases. It's hard not to get caught up in auction frenzy, but remember, in virtually every case, there'll be another one next month, if not next week or even the next day.

[Anonymous]

92; get the book that I mentioned in the beginning of the thread! It's a good place to start and will show pictures of the engines apart ( exploded diagrams ) and will help you get a idea of what were all talking about!

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 92hatchattack

hey, just wondering what you guys can tell me about something like this .... 9i was just browsing ebay and i saw it ... looks pretty cool, something i might want to own one day..... what is it??? lol .... an iten like this, is it easy to find replacement parts, and is it better to leave somethinglike this in original condition, or to have it restored????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19150&item=5942091268&rd=1

92,

This is a prewar (WWII) trainset in Standrad Gauge, which is considerably larger than O. This particular set looks to be late '20s/early '30s. It is a common, small (for Standard Gauge) set, great for getting into SG with but not really compatable with the postwar Lionel stuff you are exploring. It is constructed from tinplated sheet steel (hence the term "tinplate") and uses as pretty primative (but nearly indestructable) motor. Parts can certainly be had.

Be aware that SG will be pricey compared to common O, that SG will take more room and time to get, and that SG is addictive as can be! If you dabble, you may get hooked (ask me why I know that!). [:D]

Peter Riddle did a very good SG primer called "America's Standard Gague Trains." You can search eBay's "Standard Scale" listings (in trains/toys and hobbies) for SG stuff (along with lots of things that don't belong there).

[92hatchattack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

The thing that has been called a "crankshaft" here is the eccentric crank or return crank. I provides a motion that the valve gear needs that is 90 degrees out of phase with the main crank. On most 20th century steam locomotives it was attached to the end of the main crank pin, outside the main rod. The rod connected to it transmits its motion to any of a variety of types of valve gear. The eccentric crank of even the most admired scale models is very often at the wrong angle.

The gas turbines that Daan mentioned ran on a very thick oil, not Diesel fuel. They became uneconomical when other uses were found for the fuel, which was originally very cheap.

Both horizontal and vertical motors have used worm gears. The terms refer to the orientation of the motor shaft. Vertical motors have a worm on the bottom end of the shaft which engages a worm wheel on a driving axle or on a shaft connected to the driving axles by spur gears. The driving wheels may be connected together by spur gears or, in the case of some steam locomotives, by the side rods.

There are two types of horizontal motors. One uses motors similar to the vertical ones, but with the motor shaft oriented fore and aft, often not truly horizontal but tilted a little. They use worm gears too, very similar to the vertical motors. The other kind of horizontal motor is like the one in your 2026, with the shaft parallel to the axles. These use only spur gears and have a typically rectangular shape, compared to the other motors, which are roughly cylindrical.

i think that all just went over my head, ive never opened up a model train before, and im guessing im not really gonna comprehend what your saying with out a diagram or repair manual, or without opening one up and looking at one myself

[92hatchattack]

hey, just wondering what you guys can tell me about something like this .... 9i was just browsing ebay and i saw it ... looks pretty cool, something i might want to own one day..... what is it??? lol .... an iten like this, is it easy to find replacement parts, and is it better to leave somethinglike this in original condition, or to have it restored????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19150&item=5942091268&rd=1

[lionelsoni]

The thing that has been called a "crankshaft" here is the eccentric crank or return crank. I provides a motion that the valve gear needs that is 90 degrees out of phase with the main crank. On most 20th century steam locomotives it was attached to the end of the main crank pin, outside the main rod. The rod connected to it transmits its motion to any of a variety of types of valve gear. The eccentric crank of even the most admired scale models is very often at the wrong angle.

The gas turbines that Daan mentioned ran on a very thick oil, not Diesel fuel. They became uneconomical when other uses were found for the fuel, which was originally very cheap.

Both horizontal and vertical motors have used worm gears. The terms refer to the orientation of the motor shaft. Vertical motors have a worm on the bottom end of the shaft which engages a worm wheel on a driving axle or on a shaft connected to the driving axles by spur gears. The driving wheels may be connected together by spur gears or, in the case of some steam locomotives, by the side rods.

There are two types of horizontal motors. One uses motors similar to the vertical ones, but with the motor shaft oriented fore and aft, often not truly horizontal but tilted a little. They use worm gears too, very similar to the vertical motors. The other kind of horizontal motor is like the one in your 2026, with the shaft parallel to the axles. These use only spur gears and have a typically rectangular shape, compared to the other motors, which are roughly cylindrical.

[92hatchattack]

^^^ thanks for the heads up, but i dont think ill be buying much right now ... kinda tight first year with the fam. ya know!!! so for right now im just researching... gonna make sure i know exactly what i want for when i do have the$$$ to grab a few things

[1688torpedo]

Hello 92 ! If you're looking for a 2026. Stewart's Hobbies here in Willoughby,Oh. have one for 139.00 for both the engine and tender it is very clean and it is from 1948 with the wire handrails and nickel rims on the Drivewheels.and it has been serviced and ready to go.their phone# is 1-440-942-6632. if you're interested......Keith.

[92hatchattack]

thanks!! great explanation

ok, there are some abveviations ive been seing around here that i dont know .. maybe you all can tell me what they ,mean......

TMCC
DCS
PSI
PS2
TIU
BPC

[daan]

0-5-0ing is lifting the engine up with your hands (how many fingers do you have?) and place it somewhere else..
The Turbine has 4 driving wheels on every side, so 4 driving axles. I made a mistake by saying it has a vertical engine, it uses a horizontal. (late evening in CET).
The horizontal engine is geared by a worm to the driving axles, thus it makes the turbine a slower, better controlable engine. Since the machine is highly geared due to the worm wheel, the power to pull is enourmous. My own F3's with 2 of those engines pull the rails apart if loaded too heavily..[:D]
A pellet smoke unit will also work on fluids!! I run my 2026 early tipe like that and it works great. The piston underneath the smoke unit causes puffing at lower speeds without the use of a fan blowing the smoke out, as in the new high end steamers.
The extra crankshaft is the small lever moving the steamvalve on a real locomotive. It looks like the big one from the pistons to the wheels, but it's smaller and ends above the pistons.
With Turbine in locomotive words is an engine that doesn't use pistons or dieselmotor, but it uses a turbine, like in an airplane jet. The turbine steamer blows high heated, high pressured steam to a set of turbine wheels inside the motor of the vehicle. The blades pu***he turbine wheels around and the turbineaxle on those wheels starts to turn.
The turbineaxle drives the drivingwheels via a gearbox, reducing the 10.000's of rpm's of the turbine to normal driving speeds. As a result of the huge gearbox the power of these engines is enourmous.
There is also a dieselgas turbine, towing it's one tankcar for fuel. It's called a veranda and is also made by lionel. It has a turbine similar to the one in your Honda, but scaled up to gigantic proportions. Also with gears the highspeed revving turbine axle is geared down and in this case powering a huge hydraulic pump, which transfers the power to hydraulic motors in the trucks, which are geared to the wheels.
The Turbine technique is a highly advanced and delicate motor, using a lot of fuel and asking a lot of maintenance. The power is that huge that it's hardly possible to get that power onto the tracks. That's why turbines in trains are not built a lot.

Of course in our scaled down turbines we don't have a turbine motor in it. But the turbine steamer from Lionel is a close call, the turbine is changed for an electric motor but the gearing is also there. If you see the machine you'll see it lacks driverods and pistons, since the driving motor doesn't require that.

Something about why Lionel changed from pellets to fluid. Pellets are toxic, pellet smoke is toxic as well, and you breathe it.
It's not doing harm is small amounts, but since everyone claims and sues eachother these days they opted for the safe way to go.

[92hatchattack]

^^^ wow, great info! thanks everyone for all the help!!! keep it coming!

[Anonymous]

OK,92 Here we go,I'll do my best here!
Smoke, It's my understanding that the pellets worked great But, they do tend to clog due to the chemical makeup of the tablet, I think the reason they smoke better is the solid tends to stay on the smoke element longer than the liquid.
If you've ever had a smoke unit appart the pellet type has an element that is on a fiberglass waffer and just lay's flat on the wadding underneath the heater element.
The liquid is a little round element with a wick that slides over it when you install it to help pull the liquid on to it to so you dont burn the element up {in other words don't run it dry for too long!} when this smoke wick gets hard after alot of use it will lessen the smoke output!
Crankshaft? yes, Just as it sounds, Basically a cam just like one in a car motor that pushes a lever that makes a little metal piston go up and down forceing the smoke out of the smoke unit.
On some engines the front driver will have a lobe on the axle itself and on others there will be a piece of metal that one of the outside piston rods hits ever time it goes in and out lifting the same piston in the smoke unit pushing the smoke out!
Turbine,,,http://ogauge.homestead.com/turbine.html
Thats what we are refering to as a turbine.
horizontial motors, On Lionel steamers the motor is in between the drivers and the gearing was to one side of the axles like your 2026.
Vertical,On some others the motor is mounted in the cab of the engine and has a worm gear on the armature shaft that turned one axle and the others were geared to it.
All steam locomotives weather they be the real thing or a model are refered to by there wheel arrangement, Starting from the front of the engine if it has a small set of wheels you start with that, Your 2026 is a 2- 6 -4, Meaning 2 little wheels followed by 6 big (Or Drivers) then followed by the trailing wheels witch on your engine,4
One axle per 2 wheels,,,,,,,,I don't mean to dumb you down here I'll explain it as best I can! Some of these guy's could probbly do a better job!
Anyway, On Diesel's you'll hear them reffered to sometime as 4 axles or 6 axles, This just means total axles for that engine a 4 axle could be anything from a switcher to a GP38 ( It covers a lot of terratory) but gives you a better Idea of what your dealing with.
6 axles are your road engines, I don't think we need to get into all the reasons why 6? Unless you want to, But those are your big guy's that do the heavy hauling!
0 - 5 - 0 ing? I think that's a daan thing,,,,He'll have to answer that one,
Happy Railroading!

[92hatchattack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pbjwilson

10 years ago I was just getting started in collecting and running Lionel and other O gauge trains.

My picks for must haves in a post war collection..................

736 Berkshire - Great engine that will pull anything.
ZW transformer - Powers everything for a moderate size layout.
Milk car and platform - best operating car ever.
Rotary beacon - to lite up Lionelville.

From there it's up to you. Have fun and collect what interests you.

lucky for me i already have the zw :)

[92hatchattack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daan

The older 2026 is worth the extra price! The smoke unit works great and the extra crankshaft is more like the original. If you search a bit a turbine is a good option too. The engine is a huge vertical motor, like the ones in the earlier F3's and the 4 driving axles and huge diecast body make him a good puller.
It's a bit harder to find, but also not too damn expensive.
Repaint what you want to repaint. If it looks worn, it will never fetch a bonus prize, and since you want to operate it too, it will be harmed someday, somewhere..
(unless you have a pink steamer, then leave it intact) The most important thing is that you like the engine. If you keep value in mind with everything you do with the trains, there is no fun.. You can't run too fast, you can't 0-5-0 them to their sidings and you can't make them pull to the max, because everything you do to it will lower the value..
(0-5-0-ing is lifting it up and put it somewhere else.. Great find of someone on the board)
The repair can easily be done by yourself, it's rugged and sturdy, simple to dismantle and easy to understand what they had in mind when building it. Apart from adding oil and grease sometimes, and may be change brushes once every 15 years, you probably won't see the inside much.. Servicing is easy, repairs are easy and ebay is loaded with spareparts and donor-engines.. Besides that, Lionel has almost everything in stock.

^^^WOW ... way over my head....be prepared for all the questions that follow....

what makes one smoke unit better than another??? and while were here, why has lionel traded out pellet smoke for liquid smoke??? from what i have seen the liquid smoke sucks compared to the old pellet smoke that smokes like a bat out of hell( the kids love it, as did i when i was younder...

what the hell is a crankshaft on a toy train look like... still refenring to a motor part??

what is a turbine??? (only turbine im farmiliar with is the one on my honda :) )

whats the diffrence between a horizontal motor and a vertical motor...

driving axles??? 4 axles for 3 main wheels??? where are these axles?? what do they look like??? haha, I think i need a diagram

explain 0-5-0-ing in other words, i dont exactly understand it....

sorry for all the questions.... but i guess i just gotta jump in and get my feet wet....

[pbjwilson]

10 years ago I was just getting started in collecting and running Lionel and other O gauge trains.

My picks for must haves in a post war collection..................

736 Berkshire - Great engine that will pull anything.
ZW transformer - Powers everything for a moderate size layout.
Milk car and platform - best operating car ever.
Rotary beacon - to lite up Lionelville.

From there it's up to you. Have fun and collect what interests you.

[lionelsoni]

Larry's posting didn't mention that the earlier 2026 is a 2-6-2 (prairie). I have seen the later one called an "Adriatic", since the only 2-6-4s made in this country were for export to that area.

The 2026 shares a design flaw with other Lionel locomotives with 2-wheel pilot trucks. The truck pivot is located too far forward, causing the truck to oversteer on curves. This occasionally causes it to derail on switches as the cocked wheel flanges pick the points or frog.

The later 2026 has another strange operational problem. Lionel made the blind middle drivers slightly larger than the others, in an apparent attempt to improve the magnetraction by insuring that the most strongly magnetized wheels were always on the track. Then they omitted magnetraction because of the scarcity of magnets during the Korean war. This left the locomotive a fairly weak puller that also rocks back and forth on the track and has no American prototype.

Nevertheless, I still have my first Lionel steam locomotive, which is one of the latter. However, when the motor wore out, I replaced it with one from a 2037, which does have magnetraction and all the wheels the same size.

[daan]

The older 2026 is worth the extra price! The smoke unit works great and the extra crankshaft is more like the original. If you search a bit a turbine is a good option too. The engine is a huge horizontal motor, like the ones in the earlier F3's and the 4 driving axles and huge diecast body make him a good puller.
It's a bit harder to find, but also not too damn expensive.
Repaint what you want to repaint. If it looks worn, it will never fetch a bonus prize, and since you want to operate it too, it will be harmed someday, somewhere..
(unless you have a pink steamer, then leave it intact) The most important thing is that you like the engine. If you keep value in mind with everything you do with the trains, there is no fun.. You can't run too fast, you can't 0-5-0 them to their sidings and you can't make them pull to the max, because everything you do to it will lower the value..
(0-5-0-ing is lifting it up and put it somewhere else.. Great find of someone on the board)
The repair can easily be done by yourself, it's rugged and sturdy, simple to dismantle and easy to understand what they had in mind when building it. Apart from adding oil and grease sometimes, and may be change brushes once every 15 years, you probably won't see the inside much.. Servicing is easy, repairs are easy and ebay is loaded with spareparts and donor-engines.. Besides that, Lionel has almost everything in stock.

[Anonymous]

92, Here's what Greenbergs guide to Lionel trains say's about the 2026
1948-49 ,(A) 6466 tender with staple end trucks and whistle, Stainless steel handrailing , Box marked " No.2026 LOCOMOTIVE WITH SMOKE CHAMBER" Smoke piston driven by cam on inside of front driver.
(B) 1951-53, No eccentric crank; roller pickups, spoked sintered-metal wheels , no tires, no magna traction, 2-6-4 with four wheel stamped sheet meatl trailing truck; 6466 W, 6466T; or 6066 T tender.
Both verstions in this book show Like new condition $90.00 but that has changed since this has been published.
Hope this helps!

[ben10ben]

Regarding repainting, here's my opionion.

I am more of an operator than a collector, and, when dealing with an inexpensive piece for running, I would be inclined to pay more for a well-done repaint than I would for an excellent condition original. This is because the repaint(once again, well done) would look better, an important consideration with a piece intended for operation, and I wouldn't feel bad should it be involved in an accident and end up with chipped paint, etc.

With a rarer piece, though, I say to definitely leave the paint intact, unless it's in horrible condition and repainting would increase its value(by the book). One common trick to improve the appearance of an original condition piece is to touch up the chips with a Sharpie or other such marker. It will eventually wear off, so no need to worry about damaging the original paint.

[92hatchattack]

Dave, whats the diffrence between an early 2026 and a later 2026??? just wondering .... what i realy will be looking for is a nice steamer.... something thats older, big and heavy with alot of detail... i just dont know where to start looking ... theres got to be tons of diffrent models out there, and i just dont know how to get them all in front of my face so i can choose the one i want to go and hunt down

[92hatchattack]

cool, gread advice so far everyone!!! keep it coming!!! its all very helpful

[Dave Farquhar]

Regarding repaints, what they do to the value depends on the condition the train is in. Generally speaking a repaint is worth the same as an original in Excellent condition. But very rare pieces lose significant value when repainted since there's no way to know if it was originally something rare, or a common piece that was repainted in a rare scheme.

So it's best to research a piece before repainting it, to find out if you've got something dirt common or something rare. In the case you brought up, the 2026 is a great engine, but it's very common (assuming it's the newer 2-6-2 or 2-6-4 version), so there's not much harm in repainting it. There's not much collectible value to ruin in a 2026.

So far I've been very reluctant to repaint, but now that I have a few basket cases in my collection, I'm going to try my hand at one.

[1688torpedo]

Hello 92 ! Try Dr.Tinkers Toy Train Parts in Lexington,Mass. He has a web site on the Internet. Just type in his Name and his website will come up.He may have some of the Greenberg's repair manuels for Lionel laying around.If not another place to try is Olsen's toy train parts in Lakewood,Oh . Their phone # is 1-216-226-0444 and they also have a website with parts information and manuels for toy trains.Hope this helps.....Keith

[92hatchattack]

where can i find these greenburg reprints??? and they are just like old lionel catolags or something??? i am intrested in buying what i want, but im just trying to learn about the era, cause i do know that that is the era i like, cause i too grew up with my fathers postwar set.....

as for being a gear head, im not good with electronics but i guess i can learn ..... hey, i guess if i can pull heads and instal cams on real engines i can prolly learn model train ones as well!!!

ok, im open for more advice ..... kinda hard getting my foot int he door, but i guess once i get the hang of things ill be better off ...

[1688torpedo]

Greetings 92 ! When you buy Trains.Do not buy them for their value or you will get burned if the market goes down. If you like a specific Steam Engine like a 2026 or 2025 then that is what you should base your collection on.Not on what someone or a magazine may tell you to buy although you can get great advice from Ctt or TM Books and videos for tips & tricks on how to get your trains to run well.The Postwar Girls Train is a example of this. it was a marketing flop when it was new in 1957.Now it is very desirable due to the fact that few were produced on account of low demand for such a Train.The Postwar Trains are a great area to specialize in as they will run forever with their Mechanical e-units and Irvington Pullmor Motors. Also be aware of e-bay as some people who sell trains on there usually do not Know much if anything about them.Find a well established Train shop or Individual in your area who knows plenty about toy trains and who can give you very useful advice.And,steer clear of those who try to sell items in mint condition that may in fact,be in excellent condition with some running time on it.Mint condition means no running time,warpage or rust on any given item.It should be factory fresh.Keep checking back on the forum for more help.have a nice day.....Keith