New Generation!!!, Just getting started and looking for some guidance.....

[92hatchattack]

hey all, this is my first post here, or on any model train forum at that....I recently moved out on my own and had a baby boy and this is our first christmas as a family. Now it time for me to begin my own collection of trains....

now i dont know much, my father is more of a collector... he has alot of older postwar trains that were his fathers... a 2025and a 2026.....and alot of other post war cars....crane car/cable car/ you name it hes got it as well as about 5 huge boxes of super ok track with about 5 kinds of every switch there is... lol

Does any of that stuff have any value??? not like ill ever get it out of his hands till he goes but i was just wondering .... I really prefer the old time postwar feel better than all the electronic sounds and stuff they have out now ... the sound of the steel and winding whistle really has much more of a feel to it ...

SO, im looking to start my own collection ... Of course being on short noticed ive already ran out and bought a $160 steamer, cause I HAD to have something around the tree.... But im looking to start a bigger, rarer colection over the years and am looking for help!

What makes one post war engime more valuable than another??? Im realy intrested in starting a solid Post war collection in good condition before i move into any other collections

What can you guys recomend to me???

[Dr.Fu-Manchu]

The [}:)] Doctor is in !!! My humble, yet evil two cents is this: Look at old catalogs or the
Greenburg's reprints (there is a book of catalogs) and buy what you feel like ! No one man or evil doctor for that matter can tell you what you want !! I buy Post-War Lionel because I grew up on it(it was a lot cheaper 2nd hand back then) I also have a Pre-war
Ives set my misses Fu gave me(belonged to her uncle) I want to buy some Pre-war Lionel, both Standard & 0 gauge. But I buy what I like, not what someone tells me to buy. Hope this helps, and welcome to the fourm !!! You are among friends>

Till My Next Missive, I Remain The Humble, Yet Strangly [}:)] Doctor !!!

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the hobby. It's a great hobby, and you've come at a good time. As the doc says, purchase what you like. If it tickles your fancy, buy it. There can be a lot of great information gotten from this forum and the OGR forum (ogaugerr.com). Both are very good and have a lot of intelligent people sharing information. I post over there too (alfick3). Have fun with your new hobby.

[Anonymous]

Greatings 92!! Are you a gear head? The reason why I ask that is it seems like most famlies that pass the hobby down are.
No big deal if you arent, welcom to the hobby man!
My advice is to buy a copy of, Complete service manual for Lionel trains, you can get it from K line among other places, If your into the old stuff "post war" this is a pretty handy book to have around.
There's so much to tell a guy about the things to watch out for in building and collecting but the main thing I can tell you is when your child can load those logs and dump that coal and deliver that milk and,,,,,,,Well you get the picture, You too will see you made the right choise in a hobby that has endless fun and is not just running a train around an oval or figure 8 track!
There are some great guy's on this web site who are very knowledgable and willing to help,,,,,,I don't think they all are up at 3:55 A.M. though, I work the night shift, but always readdy to answer any question.
Happy Railroading!

[daan]

Welcome 92! (the hatchattac included[:D]).
Since I live in CET (central European Time) I can help you even in the middle of the night..
Starting a collection of postwar is not that difficult. What's difficult is to find good condition trains at low prices. I would search ebay or hobbyshops having also postwar offers. First watch and see how things go, see what prices are asked and keep in mind what you would be prepared to pay. The steamers, like the 2026, 2036 etc. go from $10 to skyhigh, and that's with a lot of other items too.
I started with a lucky shot on a 2353 offered in germany, but it was a real lucky one, since the seller had no idea what it was and the prices paid for it. I got the set with 2 postwar aluminium cars for a nice price. Since then I pretty much bought everything I could get in Holland, that included a lot of junk for far to much money.. That was learning fee, and that's how you shouldn't do it.
Browse ebay, look and listen carefully and keep some money on your account to be able to jump in and buy if you see something special.
Buy what you desire, it has no use to buy a special steamer if you like diesels. You can also try to get those remakes of special postwar trains, BUT that's not the real stuff.
The cheaper remakes turn out to be a disappointment. I've tried that road too and learned to stay with the postwar stuff, because I like that technically too. The cheaper remakes use electronics, can motors and traction tires, while the postwar relies on weight and magnetraction with powerfull pullmore and horizontal engines.
The 80's machines from Lionel (I have a 8030 Illenois GP) are also great machines with pullmore engines, but have traction tires.
May be you are lucky and get a chance to buy from someone leaving the hobby for a nice price.
The trains you mentionned your father has can be valuable if they come with their boxes and are in mint condition, but in train land you always have to find a buyer wanting to pay that price. Value is depending on the amount of people wanting to have it. that's why you can have great finds on ebay, if no-one is interested and you are, you can get it real cheap.
Hope you will have a great time collecting (and running?) trains, just as we all here do.

[railfanespee4449]

My reccomendation is get trains that visitors can relate to- like a Turbine. If they don't remember their train years, get a Santa fe alco like a 212 for $100 instead of $350+ F-3s I know about saving money on trains as I'm 12. Same with passenger cars. instead of fluted aluminum cars, get stuff like a 2434 car for $25

[92hatchattack]

^^^.. yes, i plan on running everything i buy ... my dad always said that whats the point of owning that expensive train set if your gonna put it away and never use it!

i have already bought a tm price and rarity guide book that should come in in a few days..

Heres a question .... restoring pre and post war trains.... lets say even just repainting a 2026 steamer... how much does this bring the value of the train down??? is it better to not restore them at all???

i have a nice new version ...(bought new about 10 years ago) of the blue commet that i should get to have back in a year or two, but thats staying at my moms house for now... as well as an original ZW transformer which i absoluty love!!!

im not a huge fan of the deisels, allthough im sure ill buy one or two one day .... i LOVE the old steamers though ... always facinated me. In fact i remember when i was young i had a huge one painted on my bedroom wall :)

[1688torpedo]

Greetings 92 ! When you buy Trains.Do not buy them for their value or you will get burned if the market goes down. If you like a specific Steam Engine like a 2026 or 2025 then that is what you should base your collection on.Not on what someone or a magazine may tell you to buy although you can get great advice from Ctt or TM Books and videos for tips & tricks on how to get your trains to run well.The Postwar Girls Train is a example of this. it was a marketing flop when it was new in 1957.Now it is very desirable due to the fact that few were produced on account of low demand for such a Train.The Postwar Trains are a great area to specialize in as they will run forever with their Mechanical e-units and Irvington Pullmor Motors. Also be aware of e-bay as some people who sell trains on there usually do not Know much if anything about them.Find a well established Train shop or Individual in your area who knows plenty about toy trains and who can give you very useful advice.And,steer clear of those who try to sell items in mint condition that may in fact,be in excellent condition with some running time on it.Mint condition means no running time,warpage or rust on any given item.It should be factory fresh.Keep checking back on the forum for more help.have a nice day.....Keith

[92hatchattack]

where can i find these greenburg reprints??? and they are just like old lionel catolags or something??? i am intrested in buying what i want, but im just trying to learn about the era, cause i do know that that is the era i like, cause i too grew up with my fathers postwar set.....

as for being a gear head, im not good with electronics but i guess i can learn ..... hey, i guess if i can pull heads and instal cams on real engines i can prolly learn model train ones as well!!!

ok, im open for more advice ..... kinda hard getting my foot int he door, but i guess once i get the hang of things ill be better off ...

[1688torpedo]

Hello 92 ! Try Dr.Tinkers Toy Train Parts in Lexington,Mass. He has a web site on the Internet. Just type in his Name and his website will come up.He may have some of the Greenberg's repair manuels for Lionel laying around.If not another place to try is Olsen's toy train parts in Lakewood,Oh . Their phone # is 1-216-226-0444 and they also have a website with parts information and manuels for toy trains.Hope this helps.....Keith

[Dave Farquhar]

Regarding repaints, what they do to the value depends on the condition the train is in. Generally speaking a repaint is worth the same as an original in Excellent condition. But very rare pieces lose significant value when repainted since there's no way to know if it was originally something rare, or a common piece that was repainted in a rare scheme.

So it's best to research a piece before repainting it, to find out if you've got something dirt common or something rare. In the case you brought up, the 2026 is a great engine, but it's very common (assuming it's the newer 2-6-2 or 2-6-4 version), so there's not much harm in repainting it. There's not much collectible value to ruin in a 2026.

So far I've been very reluctant to repaint, but now that I have a few basket cases in my collection, I'm going to try my hand at one.

[92hatchattack]

cool, gread advice so far everyone!!! keep it coming!!! its all very helpful

[92hatchattack]

Dave, whats the diffrence between an early 2026 and a later 2026??? just wondering .... what i realy will be looking for is a nice steamer.... something thats older, big and heavy with alot of detail... i just dont know where to start looking ... theres got to be tons of diffrent models out there, and i just dont know how to get them all in front of my face so i can choose the one i want to go and hunt down

[ben10ben]

Regarding repainting, here's my opionion.

I am more of an operator than a collector, and, when dealing with an inexpensive piece for running, I would be inclined to pay more for a well-done repaint than I would for an excellent condition original. This is because the repaint(once again, well done) would look better, an important consideration with a piece intended for operation, and I wouldn't feel bad should it be involved in an accident and end up with chipped paint, etc.

With a rarer piece, though, I say to definitely leave the paint intact, unless it's in horrible condition and repainting would increase its value(by the book). One common trick to improve the appearance of an original condition piece is to touch up the chips with a Sharpie or other such marker. It will eventually wear off, so no need to worry about damaging the original paint.

[Anonymous]

92, Here's what Greenbergs guide to Lionel trains say's about the 2026
1948-49 ,(A) 6466 tender with staple end trucks and whistle, Stainless steel handrailing , Box marked " No.2026 LOCOMOTIVE WITH SMOKE CHAMBER" Smoke piston driven by cam on inside of front driver.
(B) 1951-53, No eccentric crank; roller pickups, spoked sintered-metal wheels , no tires, no magna traction, 2-6-4 with four wheel stamped sheet meatl trailing truck; 6466 W, 6466T; or 6066 T tender.
Both verstions in this book show Like new condition $90.00 but that has changed since this has been published.
Hope this helps!

[daan]

The older 2026 is worth the extra price! The smoke unit works great and the extra crankshaft is more like the original. If you search a bit a turbine is a good option too. The engine is a huge horizontal motor, like the ones in the earlier F3's and the 4 driving axles and huge diecast body make him a good puller.
It's a bit harder to find, but also not too damn expensive.
Repaint what you want to repaint. If it looks worn, it will never fetch a bonus prize, and since you want to operate it too, it will be harmed someday, somewhere..
(unless you have a pink steamer, then leave it intact) The most important thing is that you like the engine. If you keep value in mind with everything you do with the trains, there is no fun.. You can't run too fast, you can't 0-5-0 them to their sidings and you can't make them pull to the max, because everything you do to it will lower the value..
(0-5-0-ing is lifting it up and put it somewhere else.. Great find of someone on the board)
The repair can easily be done by yourself, it's rugged and sturdy, simple to dismantle and easy to understand what they had in mind when building it. Apart from adding oil and grease sometimes, and may be change brushes once every 15 years, you probably won't see the inside much.. Servicing is easy, repairs are easy and ebay is loaded with spareparts and donor-engines.. Besides that, Lionel has almost everything in stock.

[lionelsoni]

Larry's posting didn't mention that the earlier 2026 is a 2-6-2 (prairie). I have seen the later one called an "Adriatic", since the only 2-6-4s made in this country were for export to that area.

The 2026 shares a design flaw with other Lionel locomotives with 2-wheel pilot trucks. The truck pivot is located too far forward, causing the truck to oversteer on curves. This occasionally causes it to derail on switches as the cocked wheel flanges pick the points or frog.

The later 2026 has another strange operational problem. Lionel made the blind middle drivers slightly larger than the others, in an apparent attempt to improve the magnetraction by insuring that the most strongly magnetized wheels were always on the track. Then they omitted magnetraction because of the scarcity of magnets during the Korean war. This left the locomotive a fairly weak puller that also rocks back and forth on the track and has no American prototype.

Nevertheless, I still have my first Lionel steam locomotive, which is one of the latter. However, when the motor wore out, I replaced it with one from a 2037, which does have magnetraction and all the wheels the same size.

[pbjwilson]

10 years ago I was just getting started in collecting and running Lionel and other O gauge trains.

My picks for must haves in a post war collection..................

736 Berkshire - Great engine that will pull anything.
ZW transformer - Powers everything for a moderate size layout.
Milk car and platform - best operating car ever.
Rotary beacon - to lite up Lionelville.

From there it's up to you. Have fun and collect what interests you.

[92hatchattack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daan

The older 2026 is worth the extra price! The smoke unit works great and the extra crankshaft is more like the original. If you search a bit a turbine is a good option too. The engine is a huge vertical motor, like the ones in the earlier F3's and the 4 driving axles and huge diecast body make him a good puller.
It's a bit harder to find, but also not too damn expensive.
Repaint what you want to repaint. If it looks worn, it will never fetch a bonus prize, and since you want to operate it too, it will be harmed someday, somewhere..
(unless you have a pink steamer, then leave it intact) The most important thing is that you like the engine. If you keep value in mind with everything you do with the trains, there is no fun.. You can't run too fast, you can't 0-5-0 them to their sidings and you can't make them pull to the max, because everything you do to it will lower the value..
(0-5-0-ing is lifting it up and put it somewhere else.. Great find of someone on the board)
The repair can easily be done by yourself, it's rugged and sturdy, simple to dismantle and easy to understand what they had in mind when building it. Apart from adding oil and grease sometimes, and may be change brushes once every 15 years, you probably won't see the inside much.. Servicing is easy, repairs are easy and ebay is loaded with spareparts and donor-engines.. Besides that, Lionel has almost everything in stock.

^^^WOW ... way over my head....be prepared for all the questions that follow....

what makes one smoke unit better than another??? and while were here, why has lionel traded out pellet smoke for liquid smoke??? from what i have seen the liquid smoke sucks compared to the old pellet smoke that smokes like a bat out of hell( the kids love it, as did i when i was younder...

what the hell is a crankshaft on a toy train look like... still refenring to a motor part??

what is a turbine??? (only turbine im farmiliar with is the one on my honda :) )

whats the diffrence between a horizontal motor and a vertical motor...

driving axles??? 4 axles for 3 main wheels??? where are these axles?? what do they look like??? haha, I think i need a diagram

explain 0-5-0-ing in other words, i dont exactly understand it....

sorry for all the questions.... but i guess i just gotta jump in and get my feet wet....

[92hatchattack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pbjwilson

10 years ago I was just getting started in collecting and running Lionel and other O gauge trains.

My picks for must haves in a post war collection..................

736 Berkshire - Great engine that will pull anything.
ZW transformer - Powers everything for a moderate size layout.
Milk car and platform - best operating car ever.
Rotary beacon - to lite up Lionelville.

From there it's up to you. Have fun and collect what interests you.

lucky for me i already have the zw :)

[Anonymous]

OK,92 Here we go,I'll do my best here!
Smoke, It's my understanding that the pellets worked great But, they do tend to clog due to the chemical makeup of the tablet, I think the reason they smoke better is the solid tends to stay on the smoke element longer than the liquid.
If you've ever had a smoke unit appart the pellet type has an element that is on a fiberglass waffer and just lay's flat on the wadding underneath the heater element.
The liquid is a little round element with a wick that slides over it when you install it to help pull the liquid on to it to so you dont burn the element up {in other words don't run it dry for too long!} when this smoke wick gets hard after alot of use it will lessen the smoke output!
Crankshaft? yes, Just as it sounds, Basically a cam just like one in a car motor that pushes a lever that makes a little metal piston go up and down forceing the smoke out of the smoke unit.
On some engines the front driver will have a lobe on the axle itself and on others there will be a piece of metal that one of the outside piston rods hits ever time it goes in and out lifting the same piston in the smoke unit pushing the smoke out!
Turbine,,,http://ogauge.homestead.com/turbine.html
Thats what we are refering to as a turbine.
horizontial motors, On Lionel steamers the motor is in between the drivers and the gearing was to one side of the axles like your 2026.
Vertical,On some others the motor is mounted in the cab of the engine and has a worm gear on the armature shaft that turned one axle and the others were geared to it.
All steam locomotives weather they be the real thing or a model are refered to by there wheel arrangement, Starting from the front of the engine if it has a small set of wheels you start with that, Your 2026 is a 2- 6 -4, Meaning 2 little wheels followed by 6 big (Or Drivers) then followed by the trailing wheels witch on your engine,4
One axle per 2 wheels,,,,,,,,I don't mean to dumb you down here I'll explain it as best I can! Some of these guy's could probbly do a better job!
Anyway, On Diesel's you'll hear them reffered to sometime as 4 axles or 6 axles, This just means total axles for that engine a 4 axle could be anything from a switcher to a GP38 ( It covers a lot of terratory) but gives you a better Idea of what your dealing with.
6 axles are your road engines, I don't think we need to get into all the reasons why 6? Unless you want to, But those are your big guy's that do the heavy hauling!
0 - 5 - 0 ing? I think that's a daan thing,,,,He'll have to answer that one,
Happy Railroading!

[92hatchattack]

^^^ wow, great info! thanks everyone for all the help!!! keep it coming!

[daan]

0-5-0ing is lifting the engine up with your hands (how many fingers do you have?) and place it somewhere else..
The Turbine has 4 driving wheels on every side, so 4 driving axles. I made a mistake by saying it has a vertical engine, it uses a horizontal. (late evening in CET).
The horizontal engine is geared by a worm to the driving axles, thus it makes the turbine a slower, better controlable engine. Since the machine is highly geared due to the worm wheel, the power to pull is enourmous. My own F3's with 2 of those engines pull the rails apart if loaded too heavily..[:D]
A pellet smoke unit will also work on fluids!! I run my 2026 early tipe like that and it works great. The piston underneath the smoke unit causes puffing at lower speeds without the use of a fan blowing the smoke out, as in the new high end steamers.
The extra crankshaft is the small lever moving the steamvalve on a real locomotive. It looks like the big one from the pistons to the wheels, but it's smaller and ends above the pistons.
With Turbine in locomotive words is an engine that doesn't use pistons or dieselmotor, but it uses a turbine, like in an airplane jet. The turbine steamer blows high heated, high pressured steam to a set of turbine wheels inside the motor of the vehicle. The blades pu***he turbine wheels around and the turbineaxle on those wheels starts to turn.
The turbineaxle drives the drivingwheels via a gearbox, reducing the 10.000's of rpm's of the turbine to normal driving speeds. As a result of the huge gearbox the power of these engines is enourmous.
There is also a dieselgas turbine, towing it's one tankcar for fuel. It's called a veranda and is also made by lionel. It has a turbine similar to the one in your Honda, but scaled up to gigantic proportions. Also with gears the highspeed revving turbine axle is geared down and in this case powering a huge hydraulic pump, which transfers the power to hydraulic motors in the trucks, which are geared to the wheels.
The Turbine technique is a highly advanced and delicate motor, using a lot of fuel and asking a lot of maintenance. The power is that huge that it's hardly possible to get that power onto the tracks. That's why turbines in trains are not built a lot.

Of course in our scaled down turbines we don't have a turbine motor in it. But the turbine steamer from Lionel is a close call, the turbine is changed for an electric motor but the gearing is also there. If you see the machine you'll see it lacks driverods and pistons, since the driving motor doesn't require that.

Something about why Lionel changed from pellets to fluid. Pellets are toxic, pellet smoke is toxic as well, and you breathe it.
It's not doing harm is small amounts, but since everyone claims and sues eachother these days they opted for the safe way to go.

[92hatchattack]

thanks!! great explanation

ok, there are some abveviations ive been seing around here that i dont know .. maybe you all can tell me what they ,mean......

TMCC
DCS
PSI
PS2
TIU
BPC

[1688torpedo]

Hello 92 ! If you're looking for a 2026. Stewart's Hobbies here in Willoughby,Oh. have one for 139.00 for both the engine and tender it is very clean and it is from 1948 with the wire handrails and nickel rims on the Drivewheels.and it has been serviced and ready to go.their phone# is 1-440-942-6632. if you're interested......Keith.

[92hatchattack]

^^^ thanks for the heads up, but i dont think ill be buying much right now ... kinda tight first year with the fam. ya know!!! so for right now im just researching... gonna make sure i know exactly what i want for when i do have the$$$ to grab a few things

[lionelsoni]

The thing that has been called a "crankshaft" here is the eccentric crank or return crank. I provides a motion that the valve gear needs that is 90 degrees out of phase with the main crank. On most 20th century steam locomotives it was attached to the end of the main crank pin, outside the main rod. The rod connected to it transmits its motion to any of a variety of types of valve gear. The eccentric crank of even the most admired scale models is very often at the wrong angle.

The gas turbines that Daan mentioned ran on a very thick oil, not Diesel fuel. They became uneconomical when other uses were found for the fuel, which was originally very cheap.

Both horizontal and vertical motors have used worm gears. The terms refer to the orientation of the motor shaft. Vertical motors have a worm on the bottom end of the shaft which engages a worm wheel on a driving axle or on a shaft connected to the driving axles by spur gears. The driving wheels may be connected together by spur gears or, in the case of some steam locomotives, by the side rods.

There are two types of horizontal motors. One uses motors similar to the vertical ones, but with the motor shaft oriented fore and aft, often not truly horizontal but tilted a little. They use worm gears too, very similar to the vertical motors. The other kind of horizontal motor is like the one in your 2026, with the shaft parallel to the axles. These use only spur gears and have a typically rectangular shape, compared to the other motors, which are roughly cylindrical.

[92hatchattack]

hey, just wondering what you guys can tell me about something like this .... 9i was just browsing ebay and i saw it ... looks pretty cool, something i might want to own one day..... what is it??? lol .... an iten like this, is it easy to find replacement parts, and is it better to leave somethinglike this in original condition, or to have it restored????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19150&item=5942091268&rd=1

[92hatchattack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

The thing that has been called a "crankshaft" here is the eccentric crank or return crank. I provides a motion that the valve gear needs that is 90 degrees out of phase with the main crank. On most 20th century steam locomotives it was attached to the end of the main crank pin, outside the main rod. The rod connected to it transmits its motion to any of a variety of types of valve gear. The eccentric crank of even the most admired scale models is very often at the wrong angle.

The gas turbines that Daan mentioned ran on a very thick oil, not Diesel fuel. They became uneconomical when other uses were found for the fuel, which was originally very cheap.

Both horizontal and vertical motors have used worm gears. The terms refer to the orientation of the motor shaft. Vertical motors have a worm on the bottom end of the shaft which engages a worm wheel on a driving axle or on a shaft connected to the driving axles by spur gears. The driving wheels may be connected together by spur gears or, in the case of some steam locomotives, by the side rods.

There are two types of horizontal motors. One uses motors similar to the vertical ones, but with the motor shaft oriented fore and aft, often not truly horizontal but tilted a little. They use worm gears too, very similar to the vertical motors. The other kind of horizontal motor is like the one in your 2026, with the shaft parallel to the axles. These use only spur gears and have a typically rectangular shape, compared to the other motors, which are roughly cylindrical.

i think that all just went over my head, ive never opened up a model train before, and im guessing im not really gonna comprehend what your saying with out a diagram or repair manual, or without opening one up and looking at one myself

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 92hatchattack

hey, just wondering what you guys can tell me about something like this .... 9i was just browsing ebay and i saw it ... looks pretty cool, something i might want to own one day..... what is it??? lol .... an iten like this, is it easy to find replacement parts, and is it better to leave somethinglike this in original condition, or to have it restored????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19150&item=5942091268&rd=1

92,

This is a prewar (WWII) trainset in Standrad Gauge, which is considerably larger than O. This particular set looks to be late '20s/early '30s. It is a common, small (for Standard Gauge) set, great for getting into SG with but not really compatable with the postwar Lionel stuff you are exploring. It is constructed from tinplated sheet steel (hence the term "tinplate") and uses as pretty primative (but nearly indestructable) motor. Parts can certainly be had.

Be aware that SG will be pricey compared to common O, that SG will take more room and time to get, and that SG is addictive as can be! If you dabble, you may get hooked (ask me why I know that!). [:D]

Peter Riddle did a very good SG primer called "America's Standard Gague Trains." You can search eBay's "Standard Scale" listings (in trains/toys and hobbies) for SG stuff (along with lots of things that don't belong there).