Marklin was always overpriced in my opinion. Then they bought up Trix and LGB further diversifying their troubles.
By the way, aboard!
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Unfortunately toy manufacturing all over the world has moved to the Far East. Marklin, in Germany went bankrupt a few years ago trying to continue manufacturing in Germany. The Chinese seem to have the market cornered as MTH, Lionel and more than a few European manufacturers have moved production there. The last Lionel locomotives I have that were made in the U.S. are some F-3s from the late 1990's, a C&O 490 streamlined Hudson and a PRR T-1 4-4-4-4 that has some Korean parts in it. It's all about labor costs. Look at the per centage of U.S. components in most American cars. My Mustang is only 85% North American sourced parts and some of the 'North American' parts, like the transmission were made in Mexico.
I enjoy trains from many eras of production. Lionel from pre and post war, MPC era that I had as a child and modern era when I can afford them. I also enjoy LGB trains, but most of them are from the German production era as new stuff from the Marklin ownership era are to expensive for me. If we do not support our favorite train companies, for me its Lionel, then they will not survive to the next era where trains might be made elsewhere, maybe even more of them here in the states. The coming years will be very interesting and not just in the toy train front. The discussion over where trains are made is much like the opinions of where to buy then or not buy them(brick and morter store/LHS, mail order or online). Its fond to remember how it was, when dad's worked, mom could stay home and raise the kids and trains and other items were mostly if not all USA produced. Maybe some day we will return to those times, when more fathers can make enough $$ that mom can stay home and take care of the kids. Its always fun to dream and remember when! Merry Christmas everybody! Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Joe, that B&O "President Washington" dates from 1994. As you said, you're a diesel guy but if you go for this particular steamer let me tell you, you could do a LOT worse! As good, simple, solid reliable runner, and mine'll pull 13 billboard boxcars with no trouble. And being from 1994, it's American made. Back to the original topic, huh?
If you go to train shows just keep your eyes open, they're around, you've just got to be patient.
I just took at look at the heading, as of this time 19:26 hours EST it's 68 replies, but one-thousand-seven-hundred-and-seventeen views! That's amazing. There's a lot of people who seem interested in this thread even if they don't care to or can't comment.
I would totally agree with you on GW being too much of a gentleman, I read once where someone walked up to him at a gathering and smacked him on the shoulder like an old buddy would, and GW turned and gave the man a stare that "froze the blood." He had a great deal of respect for his office and the precedents he was setting.
I wonder how much demand there is for the James Garfield or the Herbert Hoover boxcar? We should load up on them, maybe 20 years from now we can retire on the profits!
Great layout featuring those Civil War soldiers Becky, and it's quite appropriate. The Union Army had a lot of very distinguished regiments that came from Ohio, in addition to generals Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan.
And Joe, Washington might have gotten a good laugh out of Jefferson and Hamilton getting into each other, but not while they were in the room with him, he was too much of a gentleman for that. The General did have a lively sense of humor, something you wouldn't suspect from that Gilbert Stuart portrait.
Hey Fire,
I always liked the fact that Sam Adams was a failed tax collector because he was such a good guy, he refused to push his neighbors who didn't have the money!
Yep, that's funny too, since the current Sam Adams' Brewery is so successful. Sam inherited it from his father I believe. I think if you look, its possible to find a Made in USA Sam Adams Octoberfest boxcar from Weaver, which used to be right down the road from me. I hope Lionel decides to do a Sam Adams series.
I have to check out that B&O GW engine, I never saw it (I usually skip steam for diesel).
Hamilton and Jefferson's relationship, or lack thereof, I find fascinating. I often wonder if Washington just sat back and laughed as they opposed eachother. I usually fall on the Jefferson side. Its funny, a lot of those patriots (Sam Adams maybe somewhat, but Patrick Henry for sure) opposed the Constitution. But you are correct, Sir, you would certainly want them for a Pitchfork/Torch brigade.
Kudos to Lionel for celebrating the Presidents with their boxcar series. Which one, if any, do you guys/girls think will be the short print/rarity?
Back when I had more room on my Christmas layout I used 54mm ACW figures in many areas.
It's easy to spot the brigade parading past Independence Hall but there were soldiers in many other areas too. Equally obvious are the cannon, mortars and men on the flatcars behind the James Gang General. Much harder to see is the reenactment battle being staged. Look for the yellow AF boxcar and you may see my ersatz Lee on his ersazt Traveller.
These are low cost plastic figures in the traditional 54mm "army men" size and while they're a bit large for O scale, they look fine in a toylike setting. They're easy to paint and modify too. However you need a pretty good chunk of real estate to stage any kind of battle. That's why I tend to stick with figures in marching poses so I can have them in a parade. Civilians in this size figure are few and far between. There's the Johnny Tremain set, the Untouchables and the Boy Scouts, but that's about it. You can fill the civilian gap with firemen, police, construction workers, airport personnel and even astronauts.
But if you want to look at some pretty spectacular sets of figures, many of which were recast from Marx molds, try http://www.classictoysoldiers.com/cgi-bin/ctsc6/rtl/prd_d.cgi?category=54mm%20Toy%20Soldiers+Rev%20War%20Figures%20(54mm). They're very reasonable, ship fast and their Battle of Yorktown set will knock your socks off!
Joe. I wouldn't apologize for starting this post. It's nice to have a good thought provoking discussion. I don't think we've caused Bob to sweat it out too much over this topic!
I'm a student of the Revolution too Joe, and about Sam Adams...
I have to give credit where credit is due, he stuck his neck waaaaay out when it wasn't advisable to do so, stood a good chance of getting it stretched, and he'd be the first to join your pitchfork brigade, but ol' Sam was a good one for tearing down an existing government, he wasn't so hot when it came to making a new one. Failed businessman too.
The original "Sam Adams" brewery? He ran it into the ground.
Way off topic I know, but the times and people of the Revolution fascinate me. If only I could work it into an O gauge layout. Maybe a battle re-enactment? I DO have Lionel's "President Washington" B&O Pacific from the 90's. Got lucky on that one, right time, right place.
There's a number of books out on Alexander Hamilton, to say nothing of the Broadway show, but for a really fascinating book on Hamilton, and quite a few other gents as well let me suggest "George Washington's Indispensable Men," a study of Washington's aides during the Revolution. Written by Arthur S. Lefkowitz and published by Stackpole Books in 2003. I'm sure there's copys around out there somewhere. It's a treasure.
And to answer Bob's question of how we get a company that's sent their tooling and production offshore to return home...well, I'll bring the pitchforks and you bring the torches my friend!!!!
Kidding around of course. I wonder what Sam Adams would have done?
KRM,
Thanks very much.
Firelock,
That's absolutely true, even Thomas Jefferson's favorite piano was made in England if I'm correct. Interestingly, as much as I love that time period, my knowledge of Hamilton is sadly lacking. Looks like its time to remedy that soon. You're probably correct about Franklin as well, he'd have a beer and smile, as he was apt to do from my understanding of him.
JoeD1980, Ben Franklin was a businessman, he'd understand.
As a matter of fact, just about everything manufactured for sale in the colonies back in his time were imports. Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton would work hard to change that later on, but that's another story.
JoeD, Enjoy your train,
I have a late model Rock Island ALCO set. 6-38371
I had issues with it at first and had to send it back to Lionel but I got it on sale and I think the seller was selling off their returns. At any rate Lionel replaced it with engines I had not sent to them but the ones they sent me worked. I like them, but it left a bitter taste. Got to do what you got to do. For Lionel it is all about the % of problems that they can deal with.
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
Well I did it,
I took the plunge and bought my first non-US-made Lionel F3. I decided upon the Santa Fe F3's from the PWC set, with railsounds. It's the reissue of the 2383 from the 50's and 60's (like you guys didn't already know that!), and I've got to say, its a beauty. Runs great, great sounds, just really, really nice. I hope Ben Franklin forgives me :)
I don't think it would be too difficult to raise a labor force right now. I know a lot of people who've been out of work for years who would jump at the chance. My brother had a job recently that only lasted 6 weeks that he lost through no fault of his own and that's the first opportunity he has had in the last 3+ years.
Good point, Bob. I don't think any of the toy train manufacturers would make a big dent in the GDP here or not. Firelock, as funny as your "hot pocket" post was, I don't think quality control would be any different whether the trains were made here or there. Considering I just did the 7th rear brake job on my 5 old year van (made less than 80 miles from my home) due to a known poorly designed caliper, we aren't immune to quality issues here either.
I just took a look at the heading. 1,315 views! That's remarkable! This thread's certainly garnered a lot of interest.
Hi!
I really didn't mean to start a political war, or cause any hard feelings, I guess I just wanted to say that I'm sad I can't drive to my Lionel dealer and bring home a US made orange and blue box in a brown shipping container. Ideally I'd be driving a 50's Chevy pickup or 210, but thats a different story...
It is really nice to know that we all have some sort of feeling about the topic, as seen by the good discourse we've seen here.
It is also nice to know we're a good bunch of patriots and it's good to be allowed to discuss such matters.
I like this forum a lot :)
Now if we could just get my 1973 B&O F3 to stop chewing up traction tires!
In the context of the topic, model railroading manufacturing in the US, taxes, tariffs, and such could be discussed without getting political, but keep in mind we're talking 3 S gauge and 4 or 5 O gauge companies that are a very small fraction of the US economy.
Bob Keller
I'll betcha if those new Samsung phones were made in Silicon Valley they wouldn't be blowing up the way they are.
The people that bought 'em probably thought "Hot Pockets" were only something you could get at the freezer section of the supermarket!
Like I said in my original response, at least Lionel is manufacturing the LionScale rolling stock in North Carolina so give them some credit. It's the locomotives with the electronic components like command control and sound boards that just can't be made competitively on this side of the Pacific. Ironically, all of the various electronic devices we are using to have this lively discussion with were made overseas. Imagine what it would have cost to have them made here? If a new iPhone 7 already retails for $600+ , what would you be willing to pay to have it made in California?
Bob Keller So how do you incentivize a train company that has liquidated its US workforce, moved tooling to China, to restart American production?
So how do you incentivize a train company that has liquidated its US workforce, moved tooling to China, to restart American production?
Sadly Bob, I don't think you CAN, at least not without the Taboo, Taxes, Tariffs and Government Regulations.
Also MY understanding that once tooling is IN CHINA, it is there forever, the Chinese government PROHIBITS the Export of tooling, I could be wrong, but I have heard that through several unrelated sources. So to move production from China would require producing (Expensive) new tooling, which I am sure is why there is a prohibition on ssending tooling out of the country.
It is POSSIBLE we may see SOME future new production in the US, but in my opinion, unlikely that we will see the level of production in the past ever return.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Great question Bob, but not sure to answer without making some sort of a political statement.
With the subject being why trains are no longer made in the USA, one could reasonably expect the subject of workers wages to come up, as that has been an often cited reason for overseas production.
In MY opinion any way, if the wages of the production workers is a factor, then comparing the salaries of the CEO, and other higher management is fair, YMMV.
Not every thread will be of interest to every member, so does that mean, a thread that is not of interest to every member should be deleted? I personally couldn't care if the Firebrick in a Pennsy K-4 was Red, Green, Brown grey or PURPLE, but I have seen threads that Ihave as little or no interest in. If the Topic Title is clear enough, I just don't even OPEN the thread on the color of K-4 Firebrick. If I do end up opening a thread about the color of firebrick, I just back out of the thread and let those interested in the color of firebrick continue and enjoy their thread, Because the color of the Firebrick in a Pennsy K-4 doesn't interest ME, should it be deleted? personally I don't think so. It REALLY IS A SIMPLE CONCEPT, if a thread doesn't interest you, back button and move on. I have always been amazed at People who complain that a thread is STUPID, or a WASTE of FORUM SPACE, yet the thread is already into page 3, so SOME people MUST be finding Value in it. Trust me, I HAVE seen threads as dry as the color of firebrick go on for pages, I just didn't READ them that far.
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