CTT ran an article years ago in which they reported their tractive-effort measurements on a number of iconic locomotives, including a postwar GG1, using a new-fangled electronic instrument. They said that the GG1 was not a good puller. I tested mine with a simple spring balance and got much higher numbers.
By the way, the title if this thread is inappropriate. Power is the product of force and speed. But what everyone is talking about here is tractive-effort (force), not power. Most toy and model locomotives, and prototype locomotives for that matter, have more power available than they can use at low speed, before the wheels begin to slip.
Bob Nelson
The variables make a definitive answer impossible. Narrowing the scope to known postwar examples of a singular configuration, I'd say the GG1 with it's dual motors, magne-traction and heavy die cast body has to win the tug-o-war against other postwar engines. Those three pulling power attributes are not totally present elsewhere.
Some of the articulated steam models of recent must be real brutes although it'd be fun to put them up against one of the scale GG1's from Lionel or MTH.
Bruce Webster
I use a commercial "white grease" you can get in any hardware store, usually in the automotive section or the lubricants section.
One of our frequent posters swears all you really need is motor oil, on the bearings AND on the gears. He might just be right, I don't know, I haven't tried it yet, my gears are still nice and greasy.
I've kind of cheated and made a 'frankenloco'. I hacked together an A-B-A 200 series Alco. The A units each have one motor and a power pick up truck, while the B unit has two motors. All are wired to operate off of one e-unit. All of the motors are two axle magna traction. I guess it could be called post war, because everything except the shell on the B unit was post war equipment. It still needs a trip through the paint shop. My plan is to paint it in Mo Pac colors.
Earlier this year I had 22 cars behind it - a mix of new and post war rolling stock that included three of the die cast 4 truck drop center flat cars. I had to shuffle the order of the cars around to get a combination of couplers that would stay closed. I think I was using a ZW for power. It lifted the train and motored off without any problem. I think I had posted pictures on one of the Sunday Photo Fun posts, maybe back in May. I suspect that it could pull a few more cars.
I don't have room at home to run trains this long. It is only on the large temporary layouts I set up occasionally at the KATY Depot Museum that I can make these long trains.
I'll point out that a modern two motor SD70ACE Legacy locomotive had no trouble at all with this same train.
My very first loco was a 2026 from I believe 1951.
It did not come with Magna traction but I switched the chassis in the past to one with Magna traction so all of my post wars have that feature.
I would think my dual motored Santa Fe with magna traction would be the best of the post war pullers but I can't see it out pulling the big boy with 16 drivers and traction tires. I will put this to a test and let all know the results.
I've been away for a while, but what a thread!
This is what makes the forum so enjoyable.
Just a reminder, as stated earlier, curve radius is a big factor in the number of cars pulled category.
On my 031 radius based roughly 13 x 15 loop I tried to find my max cars pulled limit a few years ago.
I think I got close to 20, with various engines (F3s, 736, 636, maybe the 2056 - not sure of that one). The limit, for me, was the couplings. At the limit they began to disconnect by over or under riding. Now I will concede that not all wheels and axles were perfectly clean. Also these were all relatively heavy postwar cars.
Great to see the forum is still going strong.
runtime
Guys,
Thanks for the clarification on the 2026. I know because of the Korean War there was no magnatraction in 1952. I was not aware that Lionel did not add that in 1951 or 1953 to the 2026.
I had a chance and I continued the test with the 6250, Seaboard NW-2 Diesel Switcher with 1 motor. It pullewd 18 cars and to make it fair to the steamers I added the same tender that the rest of them pulled. It pulled all 19 cars including the tender with no problems, and then it pushed them in reverse. Just for the fun of it, I took a modern engine a 0-8-0, from my "Christmas Story Set. just like the picture of the one to be tested by CTT as on the home page. It pulled all of the same cars as the others.
Conclusion: The best and the most powerful engines are the ones that are the ones, along with all associated equipment, maintained well.
I would have tried to pull more, but I ran out of track. It would be interesting like Kooljock suggested by running the multi-motored Legacy Equipped behemouths.
I enjoyed the challenge in trying the engines out.
Enjoy the Hobby,
John
I would guess one of the new Legacy-Equipped, huge, multi-motored behemoths like the PRR Centipede would out-pull anything you would find in the Pre or Post War Era.
Jon
This thread is very interesting. I like the sounds of Bob's Rail King Big Boy!
I have been running a 2025 for a bit now and that is probably my best puller. I recently acquired a 2035 which has yet to go thru the boiler shop. This is the same engine except w/ magnatraction. It will be interesting to see the difference in performance.
Oh, and for the guy who started this thread, I also have a 2-6-2 2026. While not the big puller it is the nicest smoker. This one makes these neat rings.
Bob
Tucson, AZ (aka the Ol' Pueblo)
Home of the Mt. Graham & Arizona Eastern Boiler Shops
I do have a two-motor Alco set, which can walk away with just about anything.
The Korean-War 2-6-4 2026 indeed lacked magnetraction. It has been suggested that its slightly larger middle drivers were intended to enhance the magnetraction originally planned for it, by insuring that those wheels always contacted the rails. As it turned out, they only made it a locomotive that can rock fore-and-aft on level track. (If you've got one, try it!) I replaced the worn-out motor in mine with a 2037 motor.
arkadyHudson#685 The 2026 came in 2 versions: A 2-6-2 wheel arraingment in 1948-49. No magnatraction A 2-6-4 wheel arraingment in 1951-53. Magnatraction Nope. Neither version of the 2026 has MagneTraction. I've owned mine since it was new in 1951, and I can tell you from personal knowledge that it has smoke and whistle, but no MagneTraction.
Hudson#685 The 2026 came in 2 versions: A 2-6-2 wheel arraingment in 1948-49. No magnatraction A 2-6-4 wheel arraingment in 1951-53. Magnatraction
The 2026 came in 2 versions:
A 2-6-2 wheel arraingment in 1948-49. No magnatraction
A 2-6-4 wheel arraingment in 1951-53. Magnatraction
Nope. Neither version of the 2026 has MagneTraction. I've owned mine since it was new in 1951, and I can tell you from personal knowledge that it has smoke and whistle, but no MagneTraction.
The 1951-1953 2026 was a 2036 w/o MageTraction... magnetic material was in short supply, but Lionel included smoke in its stead. The restoration of MageTraction and retention of smoke resulted in the 2037.
Rob
just recently serviced and all my 2356 Southern set is in its original boxes on a shelf in the train room, I'm wait on my 736 to come in with its 2046W tender so I will have 2 complete PW sets the 2265WS ( 736) even have set box for that one, with all its boxes the 2231W I have all the pieces and there original boxes but no set box even thou theres one on ebay now I don't think its worth almost $400.00 in the condition it is in. maybe $100 ( at the most and would have to think hard on that) but if you look good you can see its solid but rough at the same time. http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-2231W-SOUTHERN-ABA-SET-BOX-ONLY-/370594949340?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item56492e28dc
Now for power I wouldn't mind entering my NYCPA-1's as there pretty powerfull also I know there not PW but the author didn't say PW in the title but for Diesel pw I like the 2359 B&M but its not the most powerful by any means but guess I had it as a child and wish I still did
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
It does sound interesting RT. I will love to see the results. I have the tri Engine Santa Fe 2353 A-B-A F3s packed away. I thought of pulling them out from the strorage room above the garage, but theyhave not been run in years and I would sevice them first. The only PW diesel that I have out is a a 6250 Seaboard NW-2 Switcher.
I would say the 2343 has a unfair advantage with dual motors and magna- traction
I remember doing this when I was much younger.
The next time my grandsons visit we may have a contest.
I currently have only 8 engines left as I have sold some recently.
I have 4 modern, including a big boy.
My post wars include a 736 Berkshire, 681steam turbine, 2343 dual motored Santa Fe and a 2026,
2-6-4, all have magne traction.
I will report the results, sounds like fun and something I have not done in many years.
Dave
Bob........don't you have a dual-motored (you added the second motor and geared trucks?) early postwar AA Alco pair with magnetraction? I seem to recall you said the powered unit was a really good puller, almost as good as a dual motored postwar F3. Maybe that was another poster.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
I have a Rail King Big Boy (modified for O27) that long ago lost its traction tires. Since It is heavy enough without them to pull anything I've got, I never replaced them. Without the tires, it has an interesting behavior resulting from unequal weight on the engines, that I really like: As the train starts, I can bump the voltage up a little, to make the more lightly weighted engine slip for a second or two, in stereotypical steam-locomotive fashion. Then I back off slightly to let the wheels grab.
Many people, including me, use alcohol as a paint stripper. NEVER use it on your cars! Only to clean wheels and track.
Roger
sir james I As kids we had a way to remove all doubt. We would couple them back to back till there was only one left that had bragging rights.
As kids we had a way to remove all doubt. We would couple them back to back till there was only one left that had bragging rights.
Yeah SJ, But don't you wish you had those engines now?
We also tested for head on crash dominance.
Good experiment John.
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
OK, The results are as follows:
Testing done:
On a 4'x8' Layout, Lionel FastTrack used, Flat, no grades ZW Transformer, Cars used were Holiday Cars or 6464 type box cars, plus Holiday Caboose. Tender was not counted as a car.
The maximum number of cars that can fit before touching the Loco: 18.
Results: All of the previous engines tested pulled the cars with no problem.
Conclusion: The most powerful Lionel Locomotive is the one that is cleaned, lubed and serviced properly, along with good clean track and cars that are maintained.
Robert, GG1's are another of my favorites but I only have 2 on my roster. One is a Lionel 2332 and the other is a K-Line with TMCC that I purchased thru the K-Line Club a number of years ago. Like RT said to go check out the Williams GG1. Check the latest ads in CTT.
I had fun with this. This is the first time that I put my engines in a fair test with each other.
yon need to goto www.charliero.com or www.traincity.com theres a few more but I'm at work. if you want to stay conventional check out Williams items as williams has produced some nice GG-1's both traditonal size ( about 14 inches long) and scale size about 21" long. if you want to see some layouts in action goto youtube and search train sets ( althou you may get any scale or search O guage layouts http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=O+gauge+train+layouts&oq=O+gauge+train+layouts&gs_l=youtube.3..0l5j0i5l4.4711.11114.0.11609.21.18.0.3.3.0.171.2689.0j18.18.0...0.0...1ac.1.WQB2bsCQ0nY
Most of these layouts are being erun by tmcc/legacy or DCS as we now can run trains by remote control and even couple and un couple the engine about anywhere on the layout with the remote controll which brings in a whole new level.
WOW thanks a lot. I have Fastrack that I am using...I just ordered it after talking with someone so I am not sure of the specific # but it makes ~ a 60" circle. I have it in more of an oblong setup right now. The 2026 is a 2-6-2 setup. As for power it seems the engine strains a bit on the lower end. I am guessing I have to "get the engine up to speed" and then back off the throttle to get to the cruising speed I want for under the tree? I would like the cars to go by at a slower pace so people can appreciate them and their detail.
I like to involve my kids in everything I do so they learn and I guess my daughter got a little too much oil on one of the trucks. I cleaned everything and it works much better and they are having a blast!
It appears I might have been bitten by the "bug" and have been poking around looking at the Tuscan Stripe Congressional GG-1. Looks like a fine engine and it come with dual motors. Do you know if they are still being produced...or reproduced? I would like to have a passenger train to go along with this set.
Robert,
I use a weak solution of Ivory Liquid Dish detergent, in a spray bottle, a soft bristle tooth brush, Rinse using a spray bottle with plain water and blow it off with compressed air at low pressure to clean old cars, etc. If it is just dusty a soft bristle bruch and compressed air at low pressure.
I do not have either version.
Since I had some time to myself this morning, I did a test. Since we are talking about steamers I used a 685: Hudson, 2065 Hudson, 646 Hudson, 736 Berkshire and a 681 Turbine. To keep it fair I used the same tender and cars for each. Not including the tender, they all pulled 15 cars (That is what you were looking for) with no problem. They all used the same track, Lionel Fast Track. Since you asked if the 90 watt transformer was powerful enough, I hooked up a Type 1033, 90 watt transformer. No hesitation from any engine. The common denominators: All were built (including transformer) between 1950-1956. All engines were cleaned and lubed. All cars were cleaned and lubed. Same cars were used. Track was cleaned. Testing was done on a 36" radius. I tested it again on Lionel O gauge 31" radius and I got the same results. I do not have a 27" radius (027 track). Are you using 027 track?
I think that I am going back and see how many they will pull.
Happy New Year!
RobertJMatthews1 I am sure rubbing down a car with alcohol is probably a huge no-no I was wondering what you experts use to clean old cars you might discover and how best to go about maintaining once they are cleaned?
I am sure rubbing down a car with alcohol is probably a huge no-no I was wondering what you experts use to clean old cars you might discover and how best to go about maintaining once they are cleaned?
I use dish washing liquid and a tooth brush. Dry with a blow gun. It works for me.
Thanks, this worked well. I made an error with the number....it is a 2026, not a 2028. I am not sure if that changes anything in your discussion. The 2026 is in very good shape as it has not "seen the light of day" in well over 50 years. The paint is just slightly dulled on the numbers, but only on the very top and on the left side. The right side is pristine.
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