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What is Lionel's most powerful locomotive?

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What is Lionel's most powerful locomotive?
Posted by RobertJMatthews1 on Monday, December 31, 2012 11:16 AM

I just inherited my Uncle's and Father's old post war sets (1951 and 1956 from what I can tell).  They will be used primarily on an oval or circle under the tree for my kids.  Since I do not have enough space to dedicate and area for a table they will see limited use.  Because of this I wanted to look at an engine that can pull the longest line (I have quite a few cars).  My Uncle's old locomotive is, from what I am told, a Hudson 4-6-4.  While it is in very good shape it appears to be straining pulling 8 cars behind it.  I would like something to pull at least a dozen.  Any thoughts or suggestions for a stronger pulling engine or is this about the most I can hope for?

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Posted by TRAINCAT on Monday, December 31, 2012 2:37 PM

On a flat surface the hudson should pull 10 cars, maybe depending on how sharp of curves you have. Mine easily pulls 8 with no problems. What is the cab number on your engine? The 2056 does NOT have magnetraction. The FM train master is known for pulling lots of cars, like 22 cars the books says. Mine will pull anything. Your Hudson likely needs a thorough overhaul. If you haven't done it, I would not run it until you do. Lionel has many engines with magnetraction that pull very well. There are newer ones with traction tires that will pull much more.

Roger

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Posted by cwburfle on Monday, December 31, 2012 2:48 PM

Postwar rolling stock needs to be lubricated. If you haven't lubricated them, you may find that your engines will pull a lot better once you do.

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Posted by stuartmit on Monday, December 31, 2012 2:49 PM

I think you have to remember that when you are talking about how much "payload"--how many cars-- a loco will pull, to compare a 2046 Hudson, for example (or any other steamer) to a a dual motored diesel  is tough. The steamer frequently has a tender with a whistle, and that is heavy, maybe equaling 3-4 post war era freight cars.  I don't have a GG! but I had heard they gave the most tractive effort--maybe  not the 2332 from 1947-1949 which were single motored and lack magnetraction, but the later ones reintroduced in 1954 or so; they were heavy which produced great tracttion, did have magnetraction   and could pull a ton!

Stuart

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Posted by overlandflyer on Monday, December 31, 2012 6:35 PM

cwburfle

Postwar rolling stock needs to be lubricated. If you haven't lubricated them, you may find that your engines will pull a lot better once you do.

ditto...  a light push on a coach should send it at least a few feet down a level track..  any less distance traveled and you must do some cleaning/ lubrication.

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Posted by Hudson#685 on Monday, December 31, 2012 6:59 PM

Robert,

I have a "Stable" of Hudsons. (my favorite). I would clean all of the old grease off of the gears, lube it sparingly and oil sparingly everywhere else there is friction. Do all of the cars also. They all have magnatraction except for the 2056 from 1952. Also clean and oil sparingly the axels on all of the cars. Be shure to clean the track, especially after runnig it for a while after the lue and oil. You will see a diference.

John

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Posted by Hudson#685 on Monday, December 31, 2012 7:06 PM

BTW. There is a lot of factors including weight/length of cars, length of staightway, radius of curves.

Good Luck and Happy New Year!

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Posted by RobertJMatthews1 on Monday, December 31, 2012 7:11 PM

Thank you.  The locomotive I am using is the 2065.  I am not sure of the year but I know my Uncle was born in the mid 50's.  I took it to a hobby store who does overhauls and he seemed to think it was in very good condition.  He oiled it up and ran it on his tracks for a few minutes without a tender or cars.  I am not sure how many times it was run but I do know it has been at least 45-50 years in storage.  Thanks for any info you can provide.

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Posted by RobertJMatthews1 on Monday, December 31, 2012 7:14 PM

Thank you for the advice!  It is running much better.  I bought a new flat an was amazed at how much easier it was to glide.  I lubed the truck inside and outside on the axles.  I am now running 10 but I might have another problem with oil that did not work in hitting the tracks as I am now beginning to "spin my wheels" on the engine.

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Posted by RobertJMatthews1 on Monday, December 31, 2012 7:21 PM

Stuart,

Thank you for the insight here.  I am running a 2065 Hudson.  I have just started and wanted to have something classy and powerful to haul at least 15 cars.  While I do like the steamers I happened to spot a Bluebird/Wabush that had an amazing looking Vista Dome car.  I am not sure when they were produced or if they were reproduced.  Would this set have a more powerful engine like you mentioned here?  Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated!

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Monday, December 31, 2012 7:22 PM

RobertJMatthews1
I am now running 10 but I might have another problem with oil that did not work in hitting the tracks as I am now beginning to "spin my wheels" on the engine.

You'll want to use the oil sparingly. Over-lubing usually causes more problems than it solves. To remove oil from the rails (I'm in HO but I don't think it makes a difference) I wipe it down with 91% isopropyl alcohol.

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Posted by Hudson#685 on Monday, December 31, 2012 7:40 PM

Robert,

The 2065 was produced 1954-56. It is a very durable, powerful Engine. I would definitely clean the track like Jeffrey said. Also clean the suface of the wheels where they come in contact and the sides if it is dripping down. What is the other engine?

John

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Posted by KRM on Monday, December 31, 2012 7:55 PM

You get 10 people here and you will get 10 answers. My 681 pulls 10 heavy post war cars around my table like nothing to it. Wink

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Posted by RobertJMatthews1 on Monday, December 31, 2012 8:50 PM

John, 

Thank you.  The other is my Dad's old 2028.  It is smaller and I have not yet run it on my track.  It did run at the hobby store but I have not yet tested it with any cars.  Because it is smaller I was thinking it would have less power and weight for traction.  I am running the trains with the original 90 watt transformer.  Is this powerful enough to provide the juice needed for the engine?  I have one lighted passenger car and one caboose that is also lit. 

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Posted by RobertJMatthews1 on Monday, December 31, 2012 8:53 PM

Thanks Kev.  While I am a novice still that engine looks like a real beast!  How powerful is your transformer?

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Posted by KRM on Monday, December 31, 2012 9:12 PM

I had a RW and that was fine but I replaced it with a ZW because I am running 2 loops and a trolley track

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Posted by sir james I on Monday, December 31, 2012 9:16 PM

The FM Trainmaster  is favored by some but I think the real stump puller would be the dual motor GG1s with their diecast bodies for weight.

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Posted by Frank53 on Monday, December 31, 2012 10:32 PM

I would vote for the post war FM:

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Posted by cwburfle on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 4:58 AM

Your 2028 is a Pennsylvania geep, an engine that I am quite fond of.
Odds are, the lettering is either faded, or completely gone. The material that Lionel selected for the lettering (paint or ink) just did not hold up well.
If your lettering is nice (and original), then you have a somewhat unusual piece.
Avoid handling the engine by the lettering.
Replacement lettering is available, but as more of a collector than operator, I prefer to leave mine alone. You certainly should do whatever you prefer.

There shold be a working headlight on one end.  No lenses.

Cleaned and lubricated, your 2028 should pull quite a few cars. The motor and power truck on the postwar geeps were very well designed.

When I accidently apply too much oil on the trucks, I wipe the excess off with a dry Q-Tip or rag. Just hold the Q-tip against the front (or back) of the wheel and turn it.  You may wish to pick up a needlepoint oiler if you have not done so already. I like Labelle lubricants.

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Posted by RockIsland52 on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 8:43 AM

Thank you all for this very interesting thread.  Dual motors, engine weight, magnetraction, proper conservative lubrication, squeaky-clean track/wheels/pickups, a milder curve radius, individual car weight, and transformer output.  Lots of variables here.

Under ideal conditions I have to agree with Sir James and Frank.  For pure pulling (number of cars), you can't beat dual motors with their weight distribution and the transformer output to meet the challenge. 

Even my single-motor Postwar Alcos (2031 and 2013) can handle a dozen cars once I get the consist rolling with judicious use of the throttle.  Traction is the problem/challenge.  In my mind the Postwar motors by and large were certainly far more motor than required for modest use.  Some like Chief add weight in the appropriate spots over or near the drive wheels for added traction

Like Jeffrey recommended, I clean my track with the non-metallic Scotchbright pads and then "de-lubricate" the track with isopropyl alcohol and a cotton cloth.  Then do the same with the drive wheels.

Jack

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Posted by RobertJMatthews1 on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 11:41 AM

Thank you SOOOO very much to all who have helped me out here.  I cleaned each and every wheel and wiped down the entire track surface with alcohol.  I am happy to announce thee engine is pulling much better although now it is all over my nice new white t-shirt!  

I did a lot of research on how best to clean the cars themselves.  I started with a new, soft paintbrush and was shocked at how much crud came off the littlest details of the cars.  I happened to notice, while cleaning with the alcohol, that some of the c"coating" of dirt came off on the rag leaving an almost pristine paint on the car below.  I am sure rubbing down a car with alcohol is probably a huge no-no I was wondering what you experts use to clean old cars you might discover and how best to go about maintaining once they are cleaned?  

Sorry if this is a lot for one post  but you have all been so very, very helpful to me (a novice) that I am worried I might lose you all in a new thread!

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Posted by RobertJMatthews1 on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 11:47 AM

Thanks, this worked well.  I made an error with the number....it is a 2026, not a 2028.  I am not sure if that changes anything in your discussion.  The 2026 is in very good shape as it has not "seen the light of day" in well over 50 years.  The paint is just slightly dulled on the numbers, but only on the very top and on the left side.  The right side is pristine.

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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 12:07 PM

RobertJMatthews1

  I am sure rubbing down a car with alcohol is probably a huge no-no I was wondering what you experts use to clean old cars you might discover and how best to go about maintaining once they are cleaned?  

I use dish washing liquid and a tooth brush. Dry with a blow gun. It works for me.

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Posted by Hudson#685 on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 1:27 PM

Robert,

I use a weak solution of Ivory Liquid Dish detergent, in a spray bottle, a soft bristle tooth brush, Rinse using a spray bottle with plain water and blow it off with compressed air at low pressure to clean old cars, etc. If it is just dusty a soft bristle bruch and compressed air at low pressure.

The 2026 came in 2 versions:

A 2-6-2 wheel arraingment in 1948-49. No magnatraction

A 2-6-4 wheel arraingment in 1951-53. Magnatraction

I do not have either version.

Since I had some time to myself this morning, I did a test. Since we are talking about steamers I used a 685: Hudson, 2065 Hudson, 646 Hudson, 736 Berkshire and a 681 Turbine. To keep it fair I used the same tender and cars for each. Not including the tender, they all pulled 15 cars (That is what you were looking for) with no problem. They all used the same track, Lionel Fast Track. Since you asked if the 90 watt transformer was powerful enough, I hooked up a Type 1033, 90 watt transformer. No hesitation from any engine. The common denominators: All were built (including transformer) between 1950-1956. All engines were cleaned and lubed. All cars were cleaned and lubed. Same cars were used. Track was cleaned. Testing was done on a 36" radius. I tested it again on Lionel O gauge 31" radius and I got the same results. I do not have a 27" radius (027 track). Are you using 027 track?

I think that I am going back and see how many they will pull.

Happy New Year!

John

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Posted by RobertJMatthews1 on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 1:50 PM

WOW thanks a lot.  I have Fastrack that I am using...I just ordered it after talking with someone so I am not sure of the specific # but it makes ~ a 60" circle.  I have it in more of an oblong setup right now.  The 2026 is a 2-6-2 setup.  As for power it seems the engine strains a bit on the lower end.  I am guessing I have to "get the engine up to speed" and then back off the throttle to get to the cruising speed I want for under the tree?  I would like the cars to go by at a slower pace so people can appreciate them and their detail.  

I like to involve my kids in everything I do so they learn and I guess my daughter got a little too much oil on one of the trucks.  I cleaned everything and it works much better and they are having a blast!

It appears I might have been bitten by the "bug" and have been poking around looking at the Tuscan Stripe Congressional GG-1.  Looks like a fine engine and it come with dual motors.  Do you know if they are still being produced...or reproduced?  I would like to have a passenger train to go along with this set.

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Posted by rtraincollector on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 2:34 PM

yon need to goto www.charliero.com or www.traincity.com theres a few more but I'm at work. if you want to stay conventional check out Williams items as williams has produced some nice GG-1's both traditonal size ( about 14 inches long) and scale size about 21" long. if you want to see some layouts in action goto youtube and search train sets ( althou you may get any scale or search O guage layouts http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=O+gauge+train+layouts&oq=O+gauge+train+layouts&gs_l=youtube.3..0l5j0i5l4.4711.11114.0.11609.21.18.0.3.3.0.171.2689.0j18.18.0...0.0...1ac.1.WQB2bsCQ0nY

Most of these layouts are being erun by tmcc/legacy or DCS as we now can run trains by remote control and even couple and un couple the engine about anywhere on the layout with the remote controll which brings in a whole new level.

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Posted by Hudson#685 on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 2:56 PM

OK, The results are as follows:

Testing done:

 On a 4'x8' Layout, Lionel FastTrack used, Flat, no grades ZW Transformer, Cars used were Holiday Cars or 6464 type box cars, plus Holiday Caboose. Tender was not counted as a car.

The maximum number of cars that can fit before touching the Loco: 18.

Results: All of the previous engines tested pulled the cars with no problem.

Conclusion: The most powerful Lionel Locomotive is the one that is cleaned, lubed and serviced properly, along with good clean track and cars that are maintained.

Robert, GG1's are another of my favorites but I only have 2 on my roster. One is a Lionel 2332 and the other is a K-Line with TMCC that I purchased thru the K-Line Club a number of years ago. Like RT said to go check out the Williams GG1. Check the latest ads in CTT.

I had fun with this. This is the first time that I put my engines in a fair test with each other.

John

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Posted by sir james I on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 3:06 PM

As kids we had a way to remove all doubt. We would couple them back to back till there was only one left that had bragging rights.

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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 3:59 PM

sir james I

As kids we had a way to remove all doubt. We would couple them back to back till there was only one left that had bragging rights.

 Yeah SJ, But don't you wish you had those engines now? Whistling

 We also tested for head on crash dominance. Surprise

Good experiment John. Yes

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Posted by TRAINCAT on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 7:11 PM

Many people, including me, use alcohol as a paint stripper. NEVER use it on your cars! Only to clean wheels and track.

Roger

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