Tales of Wells Fargo - 54762, check!
after playing around with font sizes and having a big issue with wysiwy(don't)g editors, i think i finally got a good, readable post for the index. i'll still play a little with the links to get most of the http text replaced by something more literal. interesting find in that clicking on the date of any post/reply will create a direct link and since it's message and not position relative, any post-editing will not effect the link.
it was actually a bit of a selfish task. trying to find one of my own replies yesterday, i had to look at 4 out of the 8 pages before i found it!
Great idea on the index Gary, !
As for the Tales of Wells Fargo set number I believe this might help.
Notice the price marked on the box!
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
with over 100 replies and into the 8th page, before this goes any further, i thought i'd take a shot at an index. it will be a work in progress but i tested a small segment and it seems to work ok. the nice part is that the links are referenced to the message # and not its position in the responses, so any editing shouldn't effect the links.
every response isn't indexed and if there are following comments adjacent to the link, simply scrolling down a bit should include everything. an index can probably be a little overwhelmingly useless if it gets too long or detailed.
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Channel Track: (also see Disney) various Marx channel track trains Ranger Steel Products - passenger train Christmas Displays: 2011 - David Smith layout Commodore Vanderbilt: (CV) http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/207544/2272237.aspx#2272237 http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/207544/2272973.aspx#2272973 http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/207544/2271291.aspx#2271291 http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/207544/2271640.aspx#2271640 video custom CV Mercury (also see Misc): http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/207544/2283658.aspx#2283658 Red (batt) & Blue (c/w) Merc sets Disney: Mickey Mouse Meteor - 7" train Channel Track
The Joy Line: The Joy Line Military: Prewar Locomotives, 4 & 8 wheel 6" tin 2572 ramp car Erie-built FM: Seaboard Monon / Kansas City Southern Monon & KCS 7" cabooses 6" tin: mono color boxcars: B&LE, B&O, SSW, C&NW NYC Pacemaker boxcars Canadian Pacific Passenger (8wh) Flats w/ vehicles (562) and airplane (572A) + Automatic couplers Prewar Silver Lithographed Frames Prewar Red Lithographed Frames Cabooses
3/16" Scale: Freight Cars
Other Steam Locomotives: #994 & #898 comparison Sets: #526 - #401 clockwork locomotive set
#550 - CP clockwork locomotive freight set
#29154 - Lehigh Valley diesel freight set
#7650 - M10005 freight set
#10500 - Nickle Plate Road 7" tin clockwork freight set - 1 #10500 - Nickle Plate Road 7" tin clockwork freight set - 2
#25224 - #999 3/16" scale freight set (typ)
#54762 - Tales of Wells Fargo #56844 - #1829 Hudson set unkn - green CV passenger set - silver litho frame cars unkn - early CV freight set - silver litho frame cars unkn - Canadian Pacific 6" tin passenger train
Misc: wheel governor c/w motor whistling c/w (Mercury) & DC motors box top graphics (M10000; M10005, Cape Canaveral) Right-O-Way railroad signs small folding layout Truck Types Couplers: http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/207544/2286229.aspx#2286229 R&D models: D&H observation car UP boxcar
....and if the "open bottom" hopper isn't odd enough, how about an upside down one?
ah, the rare 'open bottom' hopper! and thanks for the #553 SF tank car pic. the only silver frame cars left to be pictured are the dual spotlight car and the #547 mail/baggage.
i wasn't as lucky in coach distribution with the blue Merc set i have which came with two Montclairs, but they're so well matched it would be next to impossible to find a similar Bogota coach. the most lopsided set i ever saw was a large boxed M10005 with 5 x Los Angeles coaches + the Squaw Bonnet obsv. ...perfectly legitimate, though.
Gary, the set has two Montclair's, two Bogota's and an observation. Below is the freight set from the same period. The hopper car is interesting in that it was a bit of a rush job at the factory - it doesn't have a bin.
Mersenne6, that is a wonderful set! Thanks for posting it. Gary, I really like your early cars - all of those are on my "Marx Wish List" as I only have a tender and a couple of Joy Line passenger cars for my swing-pegs to pull around. Ray, I enjoyed seeing your Wells Fargo set too. Great stuff!
I've been pretty lax about posting (here or anywhere) since it is Live Steam season right now, but as soon as the weather turns colder and I have the steamers winterized, I'll get more active on the computer again. Glad to see some activity on the Marx thread!
- James
AF53 ... The Tender's lettering is not visible in the picture but it reads " Tales of Wells Fargo". Too much handling when I played with it I guess. Little did I know...... Passenger Car #1. Passenger Car #3 (they never made a car #2 for some reason). The set still runs great and there are a few litho buildings included. Sad to say I don't have the "rare" Jim Hardy figure.
...
The Tender's lettering is not visible in the picture but it reads " Tales of Wells Fargo". Too much handling when I played with it I guess. Little did I know......
Passenger Car #1.
Passenger Car #3 (they never made a car #2 for some reason).
The set still runs great and there are a few litho buildings included. Sad to say I don't have the "rare" Jim Hardy figure.
this is one Marx got remarkably close for a toy model (at least to the original version since this locomotive went through a few different rebuilds in its lifetime). it's hard to pickup the numbers from this picture, but the Wm. Crooks is actually pulling a two car consist of Baggage car #1 and Coach #3 with window and door patterns very close to the models.
this tender type is often found with very weak lettering that was easily worn off with handling. Robert Grossman Co. does make a replacement transfer for both the '1st Div. St. P&P RR' or the 'Tales of Wells Fargo' lettered tenders. as an oddball one-off model from Marx, for cataloging purposes, the Baggage and Coach are usually listed under the 7" category.
being a cross-collectable as also a Marx playset, i've seen complete and boxed versions of your "Tales of Wells Fargo" set go for some major bucks.
mersenne6 Since we're talking about the first Marx cars and sets from 1935 I thought you might like to have a picture of the clockwork set from that year.
Since we're talking about the first Marx cars and sets from 1935 I thought you might like to have a picture of the clockwork set from that year.
pretty set & don't ever mind seeing a rare CV type such as the green clockwork. no catalogs existed this early and most if not all Marx trains were sold as sets, with passenger trains solely based on the number of cars. it's hard to pick up from your picture, but n-coach sets did not necessarily have equal number of Bogota and Montclair cars, but could contain any mixed assortment. a Marx practice that was carried on to later passenger set types (eg, M10005 sets).
also of note for 1935, the early Joy Line track (with a very high rail profile) was replaced by the Marx low profile O27 track. with a new 90° crossover also offered, sets would either be offered as a basic oval or as a figure-8 configuration..
Ok, time to add my !
This is a set given to me when I was 2 or 3 years old on Christmas 1959 or 1960 (can't remember)!
It's the "Tales of Wells Fargo" set. The set box is in poor shape but you can still read the price, $14.88.
Here is the Locomotive.
I cannot believe it, but this is the 100th post so far. I would have never thought that so much information would have been added here, but I've been proven wrong. I'd like to thank Gary and James for sharing so much knowledge and so many pieces out of their collection. I think this is just a start a though, and there is so much more out there to be learned.
Keep postin'!
Trevor
hokey smoke, Bullwinkle! a whole month without a Marx posting! ...got to do something about that! after Marx got rid of the inherited Girard Toy Company stock, the first truly Marx trains started to appear in 1935 with simple single color w/ black detail/lettering lithography and sitting on 4 wheel black frames with silver (though in most lighting appearing as white) details. except for the #552 gondola, all cars had sliding mounted "Joy Line" couplers. there were only about a dozen of these early car types and few are considered rare, but due to their short life of not more than a few years of sales and considering they were the first and oldest, to find them in better conditions can be a challenge. here are some trains i've managed to piece together.
to complete my passenger train, the early, green #1935 Mail Car adds a nice contrast to the consist. (and i'm very suspicious that the red and green livery mix was no accident!) other less seen variations of this car had red door guides and/or plain doors which are sought after by some collectors, but for me, the more common version is the best looking.
in this first year only the Commodore Vanderbilt locomotive was available to head both electric and clockwork trains, and since these have already been covered, we'll start at the tender in its most basic CV (551) shape. pictured is the more common black rivet-lithographed livery. probably the rarest of the silver litho frame cars is the all silver NYC tender which was usually paired with the equally rare silver CV locomotive. the early yellow #91453 C&S reefer is another example of a car where the graphics changed little, but had its color upgraded and renumbered as #555 in later years of production.
so far my small work train consists of the #1678 NP hopper, #552 C.R.I.&P. gondola and (550) NYC wrecker (which received an original replacement cable and hook shortly after this photo). again, all three cars would go on to be regular production '550 series' 6" cars in later years. both the hopper and gondola would be upgraded with multi-color details with all versions of the NP hopper graphic changing to #554.
for the picture, i slightly lowered the track clips that are unique to the wrecker frame. when rescuing a train on an adjacent track, these clips can serve to steady the car when the boom arm is pivoted off center.
i know i have a pretty nice #553 Santa Fe 'Middle States Oil' tank car somewhere, but so far that car has eluded my current inventory search.
cheers...gary
I posted a link to this video on the Yahoo group, but I figured I'd share it here too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_xlTbApYII
This goes to show that a whimsical toy-like layout can be set up in any amount of space. This is on my basement floor, and is pure Marx (even the track). It also demonstrates the usefulness of 3 and 5 tie track and they can be mixed to make track plans not possible with Lionel's track.
Trevor, I'm sorry to disappoint but the two cars pictured are the only two R&D prototypes I ever had the chance to photograph. These cars, like most of the "trains" I have are nothing more than photographs. Way back, before the Greenberg books, I started putting together a photo reference library for myself with the main focus on pre-war American Flyer (hence the large number of posts over on Northwoods Flyer's Pre-War American Flyer thread). If there were non-Flyer items in a collection that caught my eye I would ask for permission to photograph those items as well. These two happened to be in a large general collection of pre-war everything-made-for-the-American-market which I visited almost 15 years ago.
When the Greenberg books started coming out I quit taking pictures since I assumed there would be periodic updates of the references - that was a bad assumption. Within the last year or two I've gone back to taking pictures but I haven't seen anymore Marx R&D items.
Besides the Greenberg book the only other pictures of Marx R&D models that I'm aware of were some pictures of the Martin and Osterund collections which were briefly featured in the October 1993 TCA Quarterly both as an inside article and as the wrap-around color cover.
shown here as a mixture of both 4-wheel and 8-wheel frames, clockwork sets typically topped out at 4 cars, though, larger electric sets included up to all 8 cars. smaller sets contained a random assortment of car names/ numbers so especially with the 4-wheel types, it often takes finding multiple sets to track down all the car numbers.
the 8-wheel versions were only available with tab & slot couplers never being offered with one way auto couplers. 4-wheel versions also had a fixed tab & slot coupler likely due to the clockwork drive being a reversing motor which does not function well with sliding tab & slot couplers. no lighted versions of these cars were ever made, either. and though Marx collectors would have liked to have seen an open vestibule observation car, let's face it, ...this was the Canadian Pacific and the majority of the year it's cold at those latitudes. even most northern US roads favored closed-in Solarium type tail-end cars.
from a collector standpoint, large, boxed and well matched sets generally command a premium price. as a seller with a single C7 condition car, you hope that there are two or more Marx fanatics out there who need that final number to fill in their collection.
mersenne6 Marx Factory R&D Models The second car I photographed was this hand painted UP boxcar. It is the same car that is pictured on page 45 of the first edition Greenberg's Guide to Marx Trains.
Marx Factory R&D Models
The second car I photographed was this hand painted UP boxcar. It is the same car that is pictured on page 45 of the first edition Greenberg's Guide to Marx Trains.
This couldn't get anymore ironic. I just read that book for the first time the other day, and was amazed at the amount of R&D prototypes pictured. I have been doing a lot of research to find more about some of them, but it would appear that the information is right in front of me! I must ask, do you own one of the three GG1 prototypes? I would love to know why they never put it into production. My other favorite is the 7 inch Marlines gondola with the cow on the side. I could imagine what they intended to put in that car. Milk cans? Tin cows?.....
I can't wait to see more!
mersenne6 ... The text, at least in the first edition, is incorrect with respect to the the construction of this car. The text indicates there were two versions of this car (which there were) and that both were made of wood with one of the cars sporting hook and slot couplers (this one) and one sporting automatic couplers. The error is in the description of the construction. This car is all metal whereas the car with automatic couplers was made of wood. ...
... The text, at least in the first edition, is incorrect with respect to the the construction of this car. The text indicates there were two versions of this car (which there were) and that both were made of wood with one of the cars sporting hook and slot couplers (this one) and one sporting automatic couplers. The error is in the description of the construction. This car is all metal whereas the car with automatic couplers was made of wood. ...
it seems like Greenberg corrected this in the 1989 ed. (Vol I) picturing both UP boxcars and stating one was made of wood and the other (the one you shown above) as all metal construction with tab&slot couplers. in the book, the wood version is shown with prewar one way automatic couplers.
The second car I photographed was this hand painted UP boxcar. It is the same car that is pictured on page 45 of the first edition Greenberg's Guide to Marx Trains. The text, at least in the first edition, is incorrect with respect to the the construction of this car. The text indicates there were two versions of this car (which there were) and that both were made of wood with one of the cars sporting hook and slot couplers (this one) and one sporting automatic couplers. The error is in the description of the construction. This car is all metal whereas the car with automatic couplers was made of wood.
The car is hand painted on both sides and the hand lettering is such that the sides are a very close match to one another with respect to lettering size, style and location on the car body.
mersenne6 ... Given that the above car is larger and completely hand painted it might be that the car described in the Matzke book was the next step in an attempt to move the car to production.
... Given that the above car is larger and completely hand painted it might be that the car described in the Matzke book was the next step in an attempt to move the car to production.
this is a very interesting car as it seems to be the frame described in the newer Greenberg/ Matzke Vol I, page 40...
"... A group of passenger cars exhibited swivel trucks fastened to the car frame, similar to the six-inch, eight-wheel cars. Instead of two axles and four wheels per truck, each simulated truck had only two wheels and one axle...."
these cars were said to have been made to compete with the Unique Arts trains of 1949, so if this was an animated car, it was developed long after the red lithographed frames were out of production.
by the tie spacing of the track piece in the photo, i'm making this car out to be 9" (!) long. quite a monster compared to most Marx, but this is what the 7" freight cars that were finally decided on were all about. in that head to head battle with U.A., size is what mattered most.
Back when I was visiting collections and taking pictures of trains I visited a collector who had a couple of the Marx factory prototypes. This car is a factory hand painted sample with a lady standing on the rear platform waving with a handkerchief in her hand. Her arm is coupled via a wire to an eccentric on the axle of the rear wheel. As the wheels turn her arm moves up and down.
Based on Matzke's first edition of Greenberg's Guide to Marx Trains it would appear that Marx made at least two versions of this R&D concept.
From pp. 44 "Bye-Bye Observation: This has to be the cutest model of all. A woman's figure lithograhed on metal (the car above, including the woman is hand painted), with a moving (articulated) arm, holds a tiny handkerchief in her hand which she waves from the observation platform. The arm is activated by a link to the U-shaped rear car axle to produce reciprocating movement in the link. The model is made from a standard six-inch red lithographed observation car with black and white detail mounted on a red and white frame, model year 1938."
Given that the above car is larger and completely hand painted it might be that the car described in the Matzke book was the next step in an attempt to move the car to production.
rack776 Does anyone have any tips on how to post photos in the new forum yet?
Does anyone have any tips on how to post photos in the new forum yet?
apparently there was a bug in the posting software that would balk on "~" or "%7E" (hex for '~') in the URL. if this was affecting anyone besides me, it should be fixed now.
Hey thanks for the help with posting the photos! You guys are the first in any forum to take the time to help me understand what you have to do.....not just "Use the search function" I appreciate it!
Lets see if the photo lesson works- WHOO HOO! It did.
Here is my partial set with the the brown frame UP caboose, it has sliding slot & tab couplers and plastic wheels (well 3 good ones and 1 broken one anyway ) I hope to complete this set with the proper track, Loco & wheel by digging for bargans at the local train show.
I edited my previous post above about the 7" Tin set so that the photos post correectly Check it out....anyone have any more info on that set or when it was produced?
Marx Punched Sliding Tab & Slot Coupler Plastic Wheel U.P. Caboose - Brown Frame Variation
Marx Punched Sliding Tab & Slot Coupler Plastic Wheel B&O Gondola
Marx Punched Sliding Tab & Slot Coupler Plastic Wheel U.P. Tender
Well thats all the Marx I have is this partial set and my 7" set above .
I'll be looking for more, I really enjoy the simplicity & lithography of these "toy" trains.
Keep the updates comming I like this thread, -Jason
Hi Rack776,
To edit your post, there is a small pencil icon in the lower left corner of each of your posts. Click on that, and you will be able to edit it.
To post a picture, highlight and copy the url of your picture... this is one from your previous post:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8448/7798981788_be335c13e7.jpg
Click on the "Insert Image" icon at the top of the text box when posting. It is seventh icon to the left of the smiley face, and resembles a polaroid picture with a + on the lower right corner of it. If you hover your cursor over it, it will display "Insert Image". When you click it, it will bring up a box that will prompt you to paste the url into it. Then click insert and viola:
I have found a few bugs in the new forum, but I'm sure they will get sorted out. This type of thing happens everytime a forum changes or updates their software. My previous post lost a couple of pictures and some text that I had to edit back in!
Looking forward to seeing your brown-frame UP caboose - that's one I don't have in my little collection yet.
I have a photo of the Brown Frame version of the Union Pacific Caboose pictured above that I can share,
Does anyone have any tips on how to post photos in the new forum yet? I tried to follow the instructions in my flickr account but all it posted was the html junk, Now I cant figure out how to go back into an old post & edit it. Is there a FAQ or something I am missing or is it just glitches in the forum?
With a bit of trepidation, I will attempt a post on the forum's new format!
Taking a bit of a break from my primary Marx obsession (windup locomotives), Gary's previous post w/ the Red Litho Framed 6" tin got me to thinking about some of the 6" tin cabooses Marx produced. There have been several pictures of them posted in the previous pages - some of them of hard to find variations - but I'll post a few of the cabooses, most of them very common Marx items. If you want to start collecting 6" tin on a budget, I recommend picking up a few of these!
First up, the not-so-common #694:
I wanted to start with the #694 because it is the earliest Marx caboose - of course, the Joy Line cabooses do predate it. The #694 with Joy Line couplers came out in 1935, with the change to Tab & Slot couplers happening in '36. The #694 changed again in '36 from a black frame with silver litho detail to just a plain black frame and produced into 1937.
Now, on to a few 556 cabooses:
A #556 with a red lithographed frame - these date from around 1937-'38.
Here is an early #556 caboose on a black frame with riveted Slot & Tab couplers. One way to tell if a #556 is early is to look at the door on the end – the early ones have a slot underneath the door, a holdover from the #694 with Joy Line couplers. Later cabooses did not have the slot under the door. This example would be from the 1937-'42 time frame.
…and my last #556, a later one with black plastic wheels and a twisted (sliding) Slot & Tab coupler. Sliding twisted Slot & Tab couplers were used from about 1938-’48, but plastic wheels were introduced in the late ‘40’s so that helps to date the car. Note the lack of the handrail/ladder on the back of the car… this is a typical clockwork set caboose, with sliding couplers, plastic wheels and no extra parts! Marx quit putting a coupler on the rear of the caboose, too. The windup sets were the low cost, entry level trains, so anything that wasn't needed was left off to keep the price down.
Finally, a couple of later cabooses that are definitely plentiful & cheap:
The typical Union Pacific #3824 caboose, made from around 1952 until 1972. Although there are a couple of uncommon variations (brown frame, yellow cupola windows), most of them look like this one. This caboose has punched Slot & Tab couplers and plastic wheels.
Finally, the NYC #20102 caboose, same basic era as the UP #3824. Again, there are some uncommon variations out there - like the one with a plastic "wedge" on the underside of the frame to throw switches automatically - but most of them will look like this picture.
Depending on when the various cabooses were made and what trains sets they were included in, you might find the same caboose with slot & tab couplers (riveted, twisted or punched) or plastic knuckle couplers. Wheels might be metal or plastic. There are a lot of variations out there, too. Once again, if you are serious about collecting 6” tin, I would suggest getting “The Definitive Guide to Marx Trains Six-Inch Tin & Joy Line” CD… it is a great reference!
hscsltb I have a 4040 set in the white box. Can anyone tell me the correct transformer for this set?
I have a 4040 set in the white box. Can anyone tell me the correct transformer for this set?
there are a few different verified versions of the #4040 set, but all seem to be headed up by either the #400 or #490 locomotive and include 4 wheel plastic cars. a small, 25W #309 or #329 transformer was more than likely correct for any of these sets.
I have not seen many 7" Marx sets pictured on here yet, This set is a little rough & rusty, has no boxes but it is priceless to me it was bought for my Dad by my Grandfather in the 1950s. Must be one of the only marx locos that did not run with some oil in history, it had a stripped idler gear...I found it was caused by the side rod jamming up against a replacement motor mount screw that was slightly too long. I found a gear and all is well now, even the original light bulb still works! Anyone have more info on this set or a date when it was produced?
I did not appreciate how much work goes into taking photos & writing a post untill I tried it my self!
Thanks for all the hard work guys especially - Overlandflyer & James P!
rack776 ... Also I'd be interested in seeing some 50s battery powered or plastic wheeled cars with the punched in place tab & slot couplers, I have some of these cars but no loco, I'm wondering what would have pulled it? And how many different cars were available in this style? Anyone have some? I have a Union Pacific tender & Caboose, a B&O Gondola (I was able to make the gondola from a spare parts body with a bad frame and a good plastic wheel frame I had) Did Marx ever make a yellow B&O gondola in this style car? All my Marx cars have 4 plastic wheels and Punched Tab & Slot Couplers....Can these cars be modified to run behind a Marx electric loco? They jam up & short out the center rail when it goes in reverse. -Jason
Also I'd be interested in seeing some 50s battery powered or plastic wheeled cars with the punched in place tab & slot couplers, I have some of these cars but no loco, I'm wondering what would have pulled it? And how many different cars were available in this style? Anyone have some?
I have a Union Pacific tender & Caboose, a B&O Gondola (I was able to make the gondola from a spare parts body with a bad frame and a good plastic wheel frame I had) Did Marx ever make a yellow B&O gondola in this style car?
All my Marx cars have 4 plastic wheels and Punched Tab & Slot Couplers....Can these cars be modified to run behind a Marx electric loco? They jam up & short out the center rail when it goes in reverse.
-Jason
unfortunately the best way to describe Marx track is through pictures and i'm going to have to wait on that.
sounds like the collection of the Marx you describe is from the 1960's which saw some of the last of the metal cars and clockwork locomotive sets. and though those plastic wheeled cars are metal, they were probably headed up by a #400 or #401 plastic shell clockwork locomotive which both came in numerous variations including color (grey or black), wheel type, w/wo siderods, etc with even some mechanical smokers (using a dry powder) and at least one battery powered model.
i doubt if an electrical short would be a problem with sliding tab&slot couplers, but you're probably correct in anticipating a slight jam-up that might occur when a long string of sliding tabs is shifted into reverse. very slowly might be the ticket there. the upside is hearing all those couplers popping back into position as the train reverts to forward again.
there are at least 3-4 dozen 6" tin cars that were made with sliding couplers for clockwork sets with a good number of those being common enough to find in a relatively short time. as mentioned in an earlier post i would really recommend Walt Hiteshew's "Definitive Guide to Marx 6" Tin" as the best reference to see what was made and general level of availability (findability?). alternately, keep looking into this string and within time, i'm sure some pictures will eventually pop up.
in regard to the B&O gondola question, yes, the #241708 yellow B&O gondola is indeed Marx. the two most common versions have either a red or a gray interior.
by the way, nothing wrong with being a purist, but with the already mentioned compatibility of Marx coupler styles, you really needn't limit your consists to only sliding couplers. one or two fixed tab or even plastic knuckle coupled cars withing a consist will probably not overly effect a clockwork loco's performance.
there is also nothing wrong with mixing plastic and metal wheel cars. frankly many of the cars i have that originally had plastic wheels i have stored away and replaced with metal wheels to save on wear. can't say i also don't like the increase in the passive "sound system", though.
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