lionelsoni Rob posted earlier, "The right side rods should be exactly 90° ahead of the left side with the loco traveling forward." As far as the function of the locomotive is concerned, it doesn't matter what the angular ralationship is for a spur-gear driven locomotive...
Rob posted earlier, "The right side rods should be exactly 90° ahead of the left side with the loco traveling forward." As far as the function of the locomotive is concerned, it doesn't matter what the angular ralationship is for a spur-gear driven locomotive...
That is how the 2055 is built, and I only brought it up after the discussion devolved into broken gear teeth and the OP questioned the quartering. I had been trying to get him to remove all the valve gear & rods(systemically, hopefully) before diving into the phantom armature-jamming-the-wheels issue(to remove the armature requires pulling wheels). The 2055, as well as the rest of the spur-gear driven locomotives, will run fine as you know without rods and valve gear... it's just all along for the ride for show.
Rob
Curmudgeon EIS2: Here is his original post: srguy: I was running my 2055 PW steamer last eveing and admiring how it performs so well after all these years until it came to a halt with a loud buzz. I shut down the power and and found that the drive wheels jammed however I was able to move them freely in reverse. I removed the shell and didn't find anything obstructing the drivers. As I moved the wheels forward they would jam ... again no obvious obstructions. I put the unit back on the tracks and ran it in reverse no problems. Would occaisionally jam in forward but eventually it seemed to fee up and ran without issues. I reinstalled the shell and ran it around a few times apparently fixed but then it jammed again. At that point I left it .... I have no clue what's causing this jamming. Would appreciate any suggestions to troubleshoot. carlb01464: The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along. It is a very common one. I have seen it many times. The problem we were initially trying to solve was the 'jamming' that he described. After, he apparently corrected the jamming, he then reported a 'grinding noise four days after his initial post and then the replies began to address the grinding noise. So to say that "The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along." is not accurate. Earl Not quite, but close. Next Time, be a bit more descriptive in explaining the symptoms. Had any of us known the grinding/howling issue was there to begin with, and not a "lock and stop", we wouldn't have had folks recommending removal of the armature. On a sidewinder Lionel, it is good form to suggest a drop of oil on both ends of the armature shaft at any time. Period.
EIS2:
Here is his original post:
srguy: I was running my 2055 PW steamer last eveing and admiring how it performs so well after all these years until it came to a halt with a loud buzz. I shut down the power and and found that the drive wheels jammed however I was able to move them freely in reverse. I removed the shell and didn't find anything obstructing the drivers. As I moved the wheels forward they would jam ... again no obvious obstructions. I put the unit back on the tracks and ran it in reverse no problems. Would occaisionally jam in forward but eventually it seemed to fee up and ran without issues. I reinstalled the shell and ran it around a few times apparently fixed but then it jammed again. At that point I left it .... I have no clue what's causing this jamming. Would appreciate any suggestions to troubleshoot.
I was running my 2055 PW steamer last eveing and admiring how it performs so well after all these years until it came to a halt with a loud buzz. I shut down the power and and found that the drive wheels jammed however I was able to move them freely in reverse. I removed the shell and didn't find anything obstructing the drivers. As I moved the wheels forward they would jam ... again no obvious obstructions. I put the unit back on the tracks and ran it in reverse no problems. Would occaisionally jam in forward but eventually it seemed to fee up and ran without issues. I reinstalled the shell and ran it around a few times apparently fixed but then it jammed again. At that point I left it .... I have no clue what's causing this jamming. Would appreciate any suggestions to troubleshoot.
carlb01464: The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along. It is a very common one. I have seen it many times.
The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along. It is a very common one. I have seen it many times.
The problem we were initially trying to solve was the 'jamming' that he described. After, he apparently corrected the jamming, he then reported a 'grinding noise four days after his initial post and then the replies began to address the grinding noise. So to say that "The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along." is not accurate.
Earl
Not quite, but close.
Next Time, be a bit more descriptive in explaining the symptoms. Had any of us known the grinding/howling issue was there to begin with, and not a "lock and stop", we wouldn't have had folks recommending removal of the armature.
On a sidewinder Lionel, it is good form to suggest a drop of oil on both ends of the armature shaft at any time.
Period.
Rob posted earlier, "The right side rods should be exactly 90° ahead of the left side with the loco traveling forward." As far as the function of the locomotive is concerned, it doesn't matter what the angular ralationship is for a spur-gear driven locomotive. Only those that depend on the side rods to transmit torque to otherwise undriven wheels need to be quartered; and even then the quartering doesn't need to be exact. The only real requirement is that the crank angles between left and right sides must be the same from axle to axle.
The Lionel "Generals" are an interesting example of cranks set identically between left and right sides. Lionel used the resulting synchronized crosshead motion to operate the smoke pump, which was the cylindrical inside of the boiler.
Right-side lead is prototypical for most locomotives; but left-side lead was used, particularly on the Pennsylvania Railroad.
Bob Nelson
EIS2 Here is his original post: srguy: I was running my 2055 PW steamer last eveing and admiring how it performs so well after all these years until it came to a halt with a loud buzz. I shut down the power and and found that the drive wheels jammed however I was able to move them freely in reverse. I removed the shell and didn't find anything obstructing the drivers. As I moved the wheels forward they would jam ... again no obvious obstructions. I put the unit back on the tracks and ran it in reverse no problems. Would occaisionally jam in forward but eventually it seemed to fee up and ran without issues. I reinstalled the shell and ran it around a few times apparently fixed but then it jammed again. At that point I left it .... I have no clue what's causing this jamming. Would appreciate any suggestions to troubleshoot. carlb01464: The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along. It is a very common one. I have seen it many times. The problem we were initially trying to solve was the 'jamming' that he described. After, he apparently corrected the jamming, he then reported a 'grinding noise four days after his initial post and then the replies began to address the grinding noise. So to say that "The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along." is not accurate. Earl
I appreciate all suggestions along the way whether they solved the issue or not. This is a process of elimination which at the end of the day saved me both time and money by being able to repair this venerable 2055 and have it running as it did in the 50s. Two things I'd like to point out .... first is the this forum and all participants provide great insight to both repair problems and historical info that you can't find even on the internet .... second is that Lionel made some truly terrific products that with a little bit of maintenance perform like they did 60 years ago. Great thread ... thanks again.
srguy I was running my 2055 PW steamer last eveing and admiring how it performs so well after all these years until it came to a halt with a loud buzz. I shut down the power and and found that the drive wheels jammed however I was able to move them freely in reverse. I removed the shell and didn't find anything obstructing the drivers. As I moved the wheels forward they would jam ... again no obvious obstructions. I put the unit back on the tracks and ran it in reverse no problems. Would occaisionally jam in forward but eventually it seemed to fee up and ran without issues. I reinstalled the shell and ran it around a few times apparently fixed but then it jammed again. At that point I left it .... I have no clue what's causing this jamming. Would appreciate any suggestions to troubleshoot.
carlb01464 The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along. It is a very common one. I have seen it many times.
Well, the 2055 is up and running better than ever!!!! Thanks for all the great suggestions and help along the way. I now know that the gears do not have any broken teeth, the gear valve assembly is properly fitted to the engine including the eccentric crank and the armature and brush plates are squeaky clean after a scrubdown with Q-tips and alcohol. In the end, it may have been a couple of the above mentioned items that caused the 2055 to jam but I believe the cleaning eliminated the noise and the bucking performance along with oiling the armature axel. I had the train running for over 10 minutes pulling a railsounds boxcar and 3 PW passenger cars (a heavy load) with no issues at all. I'm going to save this thread for future reference .... hopefully I won't need it for a while.
Some armatures can't be removed easily. If you cannot remove the armature, just clean it in place using q-tips dipped in alcohol.
Additionally, spray some contact cleaner on the e-unit drum while you have the engine open.
10-4 ... what's the best way to remove the armature? .... the rear drive wheels seem to be obstructing the pathway.
"One other possible cause of the engine stopping would be dirty brush slots which prevent the brushes from making solid contact with the commutator. These can be cleaned by removing the brushes and putting a q-tip with alcohol in the hole where the brush sits."
The commutator can be cleaned with a pencil eraser or a Dremel tool with a wire brush. Clean out the areas between the commutator plates with a toothpick.
Dip the entire armature into an alcohol bath and give it a good cleaning with a toothbrush. Be careful not to break the wire connections to the commutator plates. Put a little grease on the armature shaft ends prior to reassembly.
I removed the gear valve assembly and found no binding ... replaced and set the crank securely as suggested. Every thing moving freely except the noise is still present. I ran the loco around the tracks .... noisy and the speed inconsistent ... sort of a bucking motion. I do thing some of the problem is in the armature assembly. I removed the brush plate assembly and the noise is gone. loos dirty in there ... whats the best method to clean all the components??? I'm hoping a good cleaning will solve the problem.
I totally agree with Rob's statement above "Have you removed the valve gear yet? This is crucial to identifying the problem." You have already found one problem with the linkage. There is a slot that needs to be lined up correctly on the bottom of the crank. If it is not lined up correctly the crank screw may feel tight, but soon after the engine is run, the crank may turn relative to the wheel and the crank is free to float again.
The crank can be installed in two positions with the slot engaged180 deg apart. One position is correct and the other position will prevent the engine from moving. If the slot is not engaged, the crank can be installed in any position, but the crank can move while the engine is running.
Once again, the first step in troubleshooting the problem is to start eliminating possible causes. Running the engine with all of the side linkage removes is a huge first step in isolating your problem.
One other possible cause of the engine stopping would be dirty brush slots which prevent the brushes from making solid contact with the commutator. These can be cleaned by removing the brushes and putting a q-tip with alcohol in the hole where the brush sits.
I also had an engine that made what sounded like a grinding noise that was actually caused by one of the e-unit fingers shorting against the case. The grinding sound was actually a 60-cycle buzz caused by the short. I had just finished working on the e-unit, so i caused the short myself. It is highly unlikely that you have the same problem
Good Luck...
The right side rods should be exactly 90° ahead of the left side with the loco traveling forward.
Have you removed the valve gear yet? This is crucial to identifying the problem.
Started the process this morning ... the gears appear to have all their teeth .... however I will check again. What I did discover is that the main driver rods are about 90 degrees off .... should they line up on both sides of the engine?? If so I'm not sure how that's done. After rechecking the gears for alignment, I ran the engine for a few feet and there was a cycling grinding sound at which time I stopped. The 2055 is on the bench waiting for suggestions on the next step.
Let me rephrase .... the performance problem that John described is identical to the problem that I am encountering. I have not had time this week to inspect the gears but hopefully will this weekend. All this "forensic" work will take time ... will advise.
You have never said if you removed all of the side linkage and ran the engine to see if it still binds up. That could save you a bunch of money on a repair.
You also stated "John's problem appears to be what is happening with mine." John's problem was a broken gear tooth. Did you find a broken gear tooth? The ratio of problems of side linkage binding to a broken gear tooth is probably greater than 100:1.
srguy John's problem appears to be what is happening with mine. I'm not sure I'm up to that level of repair .... does anyone know of a source to repair this in North Jersey?
John's problem appears to be what is happening with mine. I'm not sure I'm up to that level of repair .... does anyone know of a source to repair this in North Jersey?
I have a real good guy I use in Baltimore, MD if you want contact info send me a message.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
One of the eccentric cranks is probably 180° off and is binding intermittently with the crosshead and/or crosshead rod.
Have you determined if it is the rods & valve gear at all, and if so on which side? The loco will run fine if you want to start taking off parts until the binding stops.
We were getting there.
Often, worn bushings or loose drivers, wide gauge, will exacerbate the issues, and cause teeth to chip/break.
If we checked all the other stuff and know it's good, then it's time to A) clean, B) magnifying loupe, and C) strong light.
Wear on teeth, not just missing/chipped, can cause teeth to lock tips, but again, worse if the bushings are shot.
Hi,
Had the same problem with my 2055 this last Christmas. I would look for a missing tooth on one of the drive wheels. Some times it would run for a few laps before locking, sometimes a few inches. The wheels would eventually get out of time with each other, and since they are physically connected to each other thru the side rod, would eventually bind and lock. Had it repaired and serviced at Brasseur Trains in Michigan for about 75-80 dollars. Make sure to check ALL of the teeth, as it's easy to miss.
John
Opposing plate to brushplate. I think on that one it's a sintered plate with no bronze oillite bearing, but it has been a while since I had mine apart.
Take that plate off, invert it, see how wobbly it is. If a little, no problem, if the hole suffers from extreme lack of lubrication and is oblonged, maybe a problem.
Crankpins are the bolts that hold the long siderods directly to the drivers (main wheels)
Thanks Dave ... I'm relatively new at repairng these trains but have become a quick study. Where does one find the crankpins and bearings??? As I noted, I removed the brush plate cover and the opposing cover. That's about as far as I got so any further instruction would be appreciated. I'd hate to screw this engine up since it was my Christmas present from my father in 1953.
One more thing...check the bearing plate on the geared side of the armature. Make sure it's not loose, and, that the bearing isn't shot, allowing the armature to move and gears to jam in one direction.
You running this in test mode with no boiler?
Easier to spot problem areas if you do.
665/2055 are really nice that way.
Could be....but it won't miraculously fix itself. Meaning, once it jams, you should be able to visually inspect the chassis by lifting, not moving anything to dislodge it, see if anything is touching to jam, or if drivers are out of quarter to each other.
If a side gear is loose, stripped, moving....one wheelset will be out of quarter from the others. Look at the axles on one side, then the position of the crankpins. They should all point in the same direction...meaning, an imaginary straight line drawn through the centre of the axle and the centre of the crankpin bolt should be exactly parallel to those same imaginary lines drawn through the other drivers on the same side.
Once you have eliminated (or confirmed) quartering status, look at wheel gauge.
If one of the wheels has come adrift of the axle, the gauge will be wider. If sufficiently wider, the gears can un-mesh, causing quartering issues and jamming.
Use a small steel ruler or dial caliper, check inside of flange to inside of flange on lead and trail drivers...should be very close. You should be able to check the edge of the blind driver to the same spec.
If not, check outside of wheel to outside of wheel on all three sets of driver to confirm blind gauge.
Dave
Checked the driver assembly and it looks like all parts are in place and moving. Took the brush plate cover off ... cleaned things up a bit and reassembled. Back on the track it jammmed again and consistently after that. As I move the drive wheels in the forward direction it's making a high pitched rattling noise when I move the wheels maually and when it runs on the track. Sounds normal in reverse. I'm begining to think it's a gear problem. Maybe a loose gear??? Suggestions welcome.
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