I was running my 2055 PW steamer last eveing and admiring how it performs so well after all these years until it came to a halt with a loud buzz. I shut down the power and and found that the drive wheels jammed however I was able to move them freely in reverse. I removed the shell and didn't find anything obstructing the drivers. As I moved the wheels forward they would jam ... again no obvious obstructions. I put the unit back on the tracks and ran it in reverse no problems. Would occaisionally jam in forward but eventually it seemed to fee up and ran without issues. I reinstalled the shell and ran it around a few times apparently fixed but then it jammed again. At that point I left it .... I have no clue what's causing this jamming. Would appreciate any suggestions to troubleshoot.
First off, stop running it until you know for sure.
It could be a screw, washer chunk of crud, floating around in the armature occasionally jamming in the field pieces.
Being only one direction, I'd still carefully go over all the gear teeth, use an Xacto blade and probe each gear all the way around, just to make sure.
Since you say it stopped, jammed, but moved freely in reverse, I don't think smoke flapper, but when this happens, see if the main rods are tight......rattle them.
I have seen, in some models, the crankpin bolt on #1 driver come loose, and in one direction jam on the back of the crosshead.
Might look there, too.
Dave
Check the side linkage ad see if it is jammed or loose. You could also remove the side linkage, one piece at a time, and see if the engine eventually frees up. If removing the linkage does not correct the problem, the most likely problem is a foreign object in the gears.
Additionally, the 2055 has Magnetraction and may have picked up a metal object that is jamming the mechanism.
Good Luck...
Earl
I have a sense that your comment about crud in the armature could be the culprit. I'll have to break it down and inspect it. I did look at the drivers and everything seems to be in order. I does seem a little perplexing that it runs in reverse and doesn't jam at all in that direction. You would think that if crud was in the armature that it would jam in either direction.
thanks Jim
I have seen enough side rod bolts (hold the long rods that connect the wheels together on one side into the wheel) on the front driver back out, and because of load, coriolis effect, and curvature, often forward the drivers move to one side, reverse the other, you can have a loose bolt jam against the back of the crosshead (crosshead being the black part the silver main rod attaches to, and has as part of it the piston rod which goes into the cylinders, and I think on a 2055 the clapper arm for the smoke unit strikes). So, run it until it stops. Then, check main rods for looseness. Then, check crossheads for looseness. Find a tight crosshead, look behind it (should be able to see through the bits with a good light), see if a crankpin bolt is near the crosshead, if so, carefully, so as not to dislodge the jam, lift engine and turn over, and inspect carefully.
On the armature, remove the brushplate and brushes, look carefully for anything adrift in armature poles or field, but my bets are crankpin bolt.
Checked the driver assembly and it looks like all parts are in place and moving. Took the brush plate cover off ... cleaned things up a bit and reassembled. Back on the track it jammmed again and consistently after that. As I move the drive wheels in the forward direction it's making a high pitched rattling noise when I move the wheels maually and when it runs on the track. Sounds normal in reverse. I'm begining to think it's a gear problem. Maybe a loose gear??? Suggestions welcome.
Could be....but it won't miraculously fix itself. Meaning, once it jams, you should be able to visually inspect the chassis by lifting, not moving anything to dislodge it, see if anything is touching to jam, or if drivers are out of quarter to each other.
If a side gear is loose, stripped, moving....one wheelset will be out of quarter from the others. Look at the axles on one side, then the position of the crankpins. They should all point in the same direction...meaning, an imaginary straight line drawn through the centre of the axle and the centre of the crankpin bolt should be exactly parallel to those same imaginary lines drawn through the other drivers on the same side.
Once you have eliminated (or confirmed) quartering status, look at wheel gauge.
If one of the wheels has come adrift of the axle, the gauge will be wider. If sufficiently wider, the gears can un-mesh, causing quartering issues and jamming.
Use a small steel ruler or dial caliper, check inside of flange to inside of flange on lead and trail drivers...should be very close. You should be able to check the edge of the blind driver to the same spec.
If not, check outside of wheel to outside of wheel on all three sets of driver to confirm blind gauge.
One more thing...check the bearing plate on the geared side of the armature. Make sure it's not loose, and, that the bearing isn't shot, allowing the armature to move and gears to jam in one direction.
You running this in test mode with no boiler?
Easier to spot problem areas if you do.
665/2055 are really nice that way.
Thanks Dave ... I'm relatively new at repairng these trains but have become a quick study. Where does one find the crankpins and bearings??? As I noted, I removed the brush plate cover and the opposing cover. That's about as far as I got so any further instruction would be appreciated. I'd hate to screw this engine up since it was my Christmas present from my father in 1953.
Opposing plate to brushplate. I think on that one it's a sintered plate with no bronze oillite bearing, but it has been a while since I had mine apart.
Take that plate off, invert it, see how wobbly it is. If a little, no problem, if the hole suffers from extreme lack of lubrication and is oblonged, maybe a problem.
Crankpins are the bolts that hold the long siderods directly to the drivers (main wheels)
Hi,
Had the same problem with my 2055 this last Christmas. I would look for a missing tooth on one of the drive wheels. Some times it would run for a few laps before locking, sometimes a few inches. The wheels would eventually get out of time with each other, and since they are physically connected to each other thru the side rod, would eventually bind and lock. Had it repaired and serviced at Brasseur Trains in Michigan for about 75-80 dollars. Make sure to check ALL of the teeth, as it's easy to miss.
John
We were getting there.
Often, worn bushings or loose drivers, wide gauge, will exacerbate the issues, and cause teeth to chip/break.
If we checked all the other stuff and know it's good, then it's time to A) clean, B) magnifying loupe, and C) strong light.
Wear on teeth, not just missing/chipped, can cause teeth to lock tips, but again, worse if the bushings are shot.
John's problem appears to be what is happening with mine. I'm not sure I'm up to that level of repair .... does anyone know of a source to repair this in North Jersey?
One of the eccentric cranks is probably 180° off and is binding intermittently with the crosshead and/or crosshead rod.
Have you determined if it is the rods & valve gear at all, and if so on which side? The loco will run fine if you want to start taking off parts until the binding stops.
Rob
srguy John's problem appears to be what is happening with mine. I'm not sure I'm up to that level of repair .... does anyone know of a source to repair this in North Jersey?
I have a real good guy I use in Baltimore, MD if you want contact info send me a message.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
You have never said if you removed all of the side linkage and ran the engine to see if it still binds up. That could save you a bunch of money on a repair.
You also stated "John's problem appears to be what is happening with mine." John's problem was a broken gear tooth. Did you find a broken gear tooth? The ratio of problems of side linkage binding to a broken gear tooth is probably greater than 100:1.
Let me rephrase .... the performance problem that John described is identical to the problem that I am encountering. I have not had time this week to inspect the gears but hopefully will this weekend. All this "forensic" work will take time ... will advise.
Started the process this morning ... the gears appear to have all their teeth .... however I will check again. What I did discover is that the main driver rods are about 90 degrees off .... should they line up on both sides of the engine?? If so I'm not sure how that's done. After rechecking the gears for alignment, I ran the engine for a few feet and there was a cycling grinding sound at which time I stopped. The 2055 is on the bench waiting for suggestions on the next step.
The right side rods should be exactly 90° ahead of the left side with the loco traveling forward.
Have you removed the valve gear yet? This is crucial to identifying the problem.
I totally agree with Rob's statement above "Have you removed the valve gear yet? This is crucial to identifying the problem." You have already found one problem with the linkage. There is a slot that needs to be lined up correctly on the bottom of the crank. If it is not lined up correctly the crank screw may feel tight, but soon after the engine is run, the crank may turn relative to the wheel and the crank is free to float again.
The crank can be installed in two positions with the slot engaged180 deg apart. One position is correct and the other position will prevent the engine from moving. If the slot is not engaged, the crank can be installed in any position, but the crank can move while the engine is running.
Once again, the first step in troubleshooting the problem is to start eliminating possible causes. Running the engine with all of the side linkage removes is a huge first step in isolating your problem.
One other possible cause of the engine stopping would be dirty brush slots which prevent the brushes from making solid contact with the commutator. These can be cleaned by removing the brushes and putting a q-tip with alcohol in the hole where the brush sits.
I also had an engine that made what sounded like a grinding noise that was actually caused by one of the e-unit fingers shorting against the case. The grinding sound was actually a 60-cycle buzz caused by the short. I had just finished working on the e-unit, so i caused the short myself. It is highly unlikely that you have the same problem
I removed the gear valve assembly and found no binding ... replaced and set the crank securely as suggested. Every thing moving freely except the noise is still present. I ran the loco around the tracks .... noisy and the speed inconsistent ... sort of a bucking motion. I do thing some of the problem is in the armature assembly. I removed the brush plate assembly and the noise is gone. loos dirty in there ... whats the best method to clean all the components??? I'm hoping a good cleaning will solve the problem.
"One other possible cause of the engine stopping would be dirty brush slots which prevent the brushes from making solid contact with the commutator. These can be cleaned by removing the brushes and putting a q-tip with alcohol in the hole where the brush sits."
The commutator can be cleaned with a pencil eraser or a Dremel tool with a wire brush. Clean out the areas between the commutator plates with a toothpick.
Dip the entire armature into an alcohol bath and give it a good cleaning with a toothbrush. Be careful not to break the wire connections to the commutator plates. Put a little grease on the armature shaft ends prior to reassembly.
10-4 ... what's the best way to remove the armature? .... the rear drive wheels seem to be obstructing the pathway.
Some armatures can't be removed easily. If you cannot remove the armature, just clean it in place using q-tips dipped in alcohol.
Additionally, spray some contact cleaner on the e-unit drum while you have the engine open.
Well, the 2055 is up and running better than ever!!!! Thanks for all the great suggestions and help along the way. I now know that the gears do not have any broken teeth, the gear valve assembly is properly fitted to the engine including the eccentric crank and the armature and brush plates are squeaky clean after a scrubdown with Q-tips and alcohol. In the end, it may have been a couple of the above mentioned items that caused the 2055 to jam but I believe the cleaning eliminated the noise and the bucking performance along with oiling the armature axel. I had the train running for over 10 minutes pulling a railsounds boxcar and 3 PW passenger cars (a heavy load) with no issues at all. I'm going to save this thread for future reference .... hopefully I won't need it for a while.
The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along. It is a very common one. I have seen it many times.
Here is his original post:
srguy I was running my 2055 PW steamer last eveing and admiring how it performs so well after all these years until it came to a halt with a loud buzz. I shut down the power and and found that the drive wheels jammed however I was able to move them freely in reverse. I removed the shell and didn't find anything obstructing the drivers. As I moved the wheels forward they would jam ... again no obvious obstructions. I put the unit back on the tracks and ran it in reverse no problems. Would occaisionally jam in forward but eventually it seemed to fee up and ran without issues. I reinstalled the shell and ran it around a few times apparently fixed but then it jammed again. At that point I left it .... I have no clue what's causing this jamming. Would appreciate any suggestions to troubleshoot.
carlb01464 The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along. It is a very common one. I have seen it many times.
The problem we were initially trying to solve was the 'jamming' that he described. After, he apparently corrected the jamming, he then reported a 'grinding noise four days after his initial post and then the replies began to address the grinding noise. So to say that "The next time this happens, just place a drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft. This was your problem all along." is not accurate.
I appreciate all suggestions along the way whether they solved the issue or not. This is a process of elimination which at the end of the day saved me both time and money by being able to repair this venerable 2055 and have it running as it did in the 50s. Two things I'd like to point out .... first is the this forum and all participants provide great insight to both repair problems and historical info that you can't find even on the internet .... second is that Lionel made some truly terrific products that with a little bit of maintenance perform like they did 60 years ago. Great thread ... thanks again.
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