I have been having a bad time with my Modern trains. I am getting fed up with everything I have that is considered Modern. It all seems to be junk to me. Poor quality at best and no parts if you need them and if they do have them they cost too much to buy. I hear story after story about these things and their problems. Take my Lionel Dockside, when I got it the smoke unit was bad so I got a new one from Lionel two months ago and today guess what?? Sure as he** it already is not working again. No way can it have more than 2hr on it. Same thing goes for the Lionel B&O RailSounds boxcar. Fried with no time on it at all. Take my K-Line Plymouth Switcher, Smoke unit fan has quit and the rear side lights are out and again hardly no time on this unit. Sure I know these are not toy trains anymore but I can put my 1950’s 681 S-2 Turbine on the track with 10 heavy post-war cars and a caboose and let it go for hours. Run the smoke unit dry and come back a month later put in a few drops of fluid and away it goes. Same goes for any of my post-war stuff and thank god that is most of what I have . I guess when they say these new trains are for 14 years and up they know who the real suckers are. In my mind if you want to run your trains you better stay with the old ones. I guess none of them new or old breakdown on the display shelf. I don’t have any Williams, Atlas, or MTH so I can’t talk to them.
I have been having a bad time with my Modern trains.
I am getting fed up with everything I have that is considered Modern. It all seems to be junk to me. Poor quality at best and no parts if you need them and if they do have them they cost too much to buy. I hear story after story about these things and their problems. Take my Lionel Dockside, when I got it the smoke unit was bad so I got a new one from Lionel two months ago and today guess what?? Sure as he** it already is not working again. No way can it have more than 2hr on it. Same thing goes for the Lionel B&O RailSounds boxcar. Fried with no time on it at all. Take my K-Line Plymouth Switcher, Smoke unit fan has quit and the rear side lights are out and again hardly no time on this unit.
Sure I know these are not toy trains anymore but I can put my 1950’s 681 S-2 Turbine on the track with 10 heavy post-war cars and a caboose and let it go for hours. Run the smoke unit dry and come back a month later put in a few drops of fluid and away it goes. Same goes for any of my post-war stuff and thank god that is most of what I have .
I guess when they say these new trains are for 14 years and up they know who the real suckers are.
In my mind if you want to run your trains you better stay with the old ones. I guess none of them new or old breakdown on the display shelf.
I don’t have any Williams, Atlas, or MTH so I can’t talk to them.
Maybe I am still just using these like I am nine years old?
JMHO
Kev.
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
Kevin I'm afraid your so right. The newer stuff is fun when it works. But It doesn't appear that they are made to last long. Just like everything else made these days, It's kinda sad there is no pride in workmanship anymore. Of course the Mfg. motto is make it last long enough for the warranty to run out. Williams trains have a very good track record and are a good value in a conventional engine.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
All of my Lionels and K-Lines have been in the shop for something except a Lionel FT, but I have never had a Williams repaired. All of my Williams have ERR TMCC self installed and they are the best on the layout. Fan driven smoke units seem to be a real weak point. Of course one big problem is it is impossible to tell how much fluid is in the unit so over flows can happen.
After my engines have been in the shop, they have all worked incrediably great.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
I have to admit I have been tempted now and again to emerge from my postwar engines bias. The fun factor is there with the new stuff. Then I read this type of stuff on the forum daily and the urge quickly disappears. I run trains for relaxation, not aggravation. JMHO
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
Also why is it I can get parts for my trains that were made almost 100 years ago but the new "MODERN" stuff, that is only a few years................THERE'S NO PARTS!
I guess the old saying is true..
"It's an oldie but a goodie"!
l have 2 modern englnes. an MTH PRR M1a wlth P2.0. and a Williams 746 J. the othe ones l have are Pre or Postwar Lionel or Marx. l love scroungng thru the junk boxes at shows for projects. The new ones are great untlll they break. l'll be staylng wlth the old reliables.
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
Kev, the modern trains filled with the electronic gizmos certainly are more delicate than the Prewar, Postwar and to some extent MPC era of trains. I have around a 100 or so modern locomotives that have some sort of electronic boards or command systems in them. I have been fortunate that I have never had a loco new out of the box to fail on start-up.
The Grandsons and I have run the heck out of these locos over the years so over time some parts have failed, mostly sound boards. I have had only 3 locos that died during the warranty period, two from Lionel and one from MTH. All were repaired quickly at no charge from the manufactures repair centers.
I have been reading on another forum about a recently released expensive ( $800 ) Lionel set. It is unbelievable that this set was allowed to ship to customers with the amount of flaws that have been discovered by the purchasers. By the description of the damage, you get the mental picture of the rolling stock really being mistreated during the packaging process.
I know Lionel had to switch manufactures a couple years ago since they didn't want the parent company of Williams by Bachmann trains manufacturing Lionel trains any longer but Lionel has had some serious quality issues with their new manufacturing partners. maybe they should have stayed with Williams parent company.
Bill T.
You're painting with a roller there, Kev.
I too, prefer a more simpler fleet, but my railroad (with its grades and winding curves) dictates the need for 2.0 speed control (conventional mind you). Yes, the newer fleet of engines has made me more maintinence minded, but I only have had a few bumps in the road.
If we compare it to another hobby like model airplane flying, it's all in what you enjoy more...spinning around holding a string, or throttling up with a remote controlled power pack...?
I wasn't direct, what was the source of your purchase of these mal-acting choo-choos...?
I have one williams by williams that I have put tmc from err in it and trainsounds from them also, I have 4 Tmcc engines and the only problem I have had was that my NYC GP-9 when I got it off of E-Bay I was mislead by seller but didn't have capabilities at the time to test in tmcc mode. Well when I got the tmcc it would run about 18 minutes then would switch out of tmcc and go like a bat out of you know where fixed that myself and haven't had a problem since (knock on wood)
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
Kev, hate to say it but not a lot of problems with my modern diesels and have only three modern steamers. The three steamers which are two Lionels are the ones that throw tires and etc. The K-line one goes great. Now I agree. The old Lionel stuff is tuff. Runs and runs. I too like Buckeye have added some ERR TMCC kits to enignes and they go and go. I've upgraded some diesels with fan blown smoke units and they do great. Keep on running those trains.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
It's not just you, Kev, it is a fact of life. Non-electronic toys and trains have been around for 100 years, and some have made it into modern times and can still be used and repaired for the most part. They will also, with a little care, be around for another 100 years. Electronics, by their very nature, are obsolete the moment they are produced, and for the most part, are throw-away. Look at your tv's, audio systems, cell phones, etc. It is cost-prohibitive to repair them. Will the boards for your new $1500 engine be available 10 years from now? I think not. What happens to it when it dies? You rip out the boards and put in a bridge rectifier to get it to run, and that's it. It is far too expensive to set up a cottage industry to manufacture electronics boards, and there are so many of them, and the designs change with every new release, it has quickly gotten out of hand. Electronics sure has added a new level of enjoyment, and brought realistic operations and sounds into the hobby, but at a cost of future obsolescence and the inability to be repaired in the distant future. Another problem is the nature of electronics itself, in that semiconductors are prone to being destroyed very easily. A derailment, and poof, there goes a board. The local power utility switches generators, the house lights blink for a second, and there goes another board, tv, clock, stereo system, dvd player, etc. Electronics are built to just about work, not to last. It's not cost effective to do that. Add to that defective components from the factory, and a spontaneous failure is in the making.
What's the solution? Manufacturers have to standardize their boards and installations, connectors, etc. so that a board manufactured 20 years from now will be a drop-in replacement in an engine or other unit made today. Stop manufacturing and promoting obsolescence, which every manufacturer of any kind of electronic item does. It insures repeat customers and sales, and that is the bottom line.
Larry
TrainLarry It's not just you, Kev, . Larry
It's not just you, Kev, .
You have pretty much nailed it there Larry. My time spent in the engineering room at my old job let me know that you design today for ease of assembly, not repair. Be it Cars, washing machines or whatever. We are in a throwaway manufacturing society today. You also design only to the point to be as good or a touch better than the other guy’s product. Job security for all and too bad for the consumer. It is all about profit and turns. Where I worked the company makes 3X the profit on parts sales off a machine than they make on the sale. This too is by design. Then phase out parts to force the sale of a new model. It is good to see the answers on this thread because now I know. It is not just me. Tks , Kev
You have pretty much nailed it there Larry.
My time spent in the engineering room at my old job let me know that you design today for ease of assembly, not repair. Be it Cars, washing machines or whatever. We are in a throwaway manufacturing society today. You also design only to the point to be as good or a touch better than the other guy’s product. Job security for all and too bad for the consumer.
It is all about profit and turns. Where I worked the company makes 3X the profit on parts sales off a machine than they make on the sale. This too is by design. Then phase out parts to force the sale of a new model.
It is good to see the answers on this thread because now I know. It is not just me.
Tks ,
Kev
Kev,
Ease of assembly???!!! Tell that to the auto mechanic who has to rip apart half the engine to change a water pump, or the poor hobbyist trying to replace a smoke unit in a brand-new-design locomotive. If any industries' design engineers were forced to diagnose and repair their own creations, we would live in a whole different world.
KRM I guess when they say these new trains are for 14 years and up they know who the real suckers are. In my mind if you want to run your trains you better stay with the old ones. I guess none of them new or old breakdown on the display shelf. Kev.
In my mind if you want to run your trains you better stay with the old ones. I guess none of them new or old breakdown on the display shelf. Kev.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Except for Williams, which has a lifetime, return to factory warranty, post Y2K trains & accessories are to be considered disposable. Price your purchases accordingly.
The hobby is choking on stuff that doesn't work and is unrepairable due to 'unavailable replacement parts". The hot topic at Fall 2011 York was the influx of black market (thus unreliable) circuit boards entering the supply channels.
I have just about no interest in newly made trains from any manufacturer / importer for the reasons stated above. In addition the retail prices are too high. I stay with trains made prior to 1994 because as far as I know, e-units were used in most Lionel trains until then. Some folks demanded higher levels of detail, and electronic features, making more and more parts unique. I prefer the "approximations" that use a lot of interchangeable parts from model to model.
Hey Kev, you just might have some unique, one off doorstops and bookends.
I just plain like the old school electric trains. Simple, easy and reliable.
TrainLarry Kev, Ease of assembly???!!! Tell that to the auto mechanic who has to rip apart half the engine to change a water pump, or the poor hobbyist trying to replace a smoke unit in a brand-new-design locomotive. If any industries' design engineers were forced to diagnose and repair their own creations, we would live in a whole different world. Larry
That is just my point Larry,
Ease of assembly - - NOT REPAIR They snap togeather in a heart beat going down the assembly line .
"Tell that to the auto mechanic who has to rip apart half the engine to change a water pump, or the poor hobbyist trying to replace a smoke unit in a brand-new-design locomotive." This problem is not assembly it is the REPAIR part.
If any industries' design engineers were forced to diagnose and repair their own creations, we would live in a whole different world. Spot ON!!!
Time to stock up on all those 'obsolete' mechanical e-units, whistle and horn relays, motor driven whistles and battery powered horns. You may need them someday to keep that electronic doorstop going.
Oh, and a handful of full wave bridge rectifiers for the can motors. Or maybe 50 years from now aftermarket suppliers will be converting can motor drives to universal open frame motors!
Who knows what the future holds...linear induction motor drive systems...
I agree with everything that's been said. I have half a dozen engines with protosounds and all of them lost their minds. Problem was, at the time they were new in the mid 90's, nobody knew that they weren't compatible with MRC transformers. Also, battery depletion was apparently not considered during the design phase. The only one I have that still works (more or less) is a Proto 1 N&W 0-8-0 that came with 4 black hoppers. And it only works because I pulled the sound module off the board and left behind the rectifier assembly. (The smoke unit burnt up long before the board quit by the way.) Luckily the tether also fits my Dreyfuss Hudson so I can run that engine by using the switcher's board. Otherwise it too would be a wonderful doorstop.
I love the detail level Lionel has been achieving lately, but I don't trust the innards anymore. I've been hearing good things about Williams and I expect they'll get the "Lion's share" (excuse the pun) of my modern production business. Otherwise my "pre 1986 only" moritorium will stay in effect.
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Penny, I use to buy cheap PS1 engines with bad boards, pull them, install ERR TMCC with sound and away they go.
balidas Hey Kev, you just might have some unique, one off doorstops and bookends.
Good Idea but ... then I guess I will need to throw away all of doorstops and bookends I have from my old GTO and Fairlane. Kev
Good Idea but ... then I guess I will need to throw away all of doorstops and bookends I have from my old GTO and Fairlane.
You guys seem to have been born under an electronic black cloud!
I've had to work on a number of my locomotives, but I have 30+ TMCC/Legacy locomotives, and two MTH PS2 models. They're all in 100% working condition.
Yep, a locomotive filled with fancy electronics will probably fail more often than one with a mechanical E-Unit., that shouldn't come as a surprise. OTOH, they're also a lot more fun to play with, so there's a tradeoff.
gunrunnerjohn You guys seem to have been born under an electronic black cloud! I've had to work on a number of my locomotives, but I have 30+ TMCC/Legacy locomotives, and two MTH PS2 models. They're all in 100% working condition. Yep, a locomotive filled with fancy electronics will probably fail more often than one with a mechanical E-Unit., that shouldn't come as a surprise. OTOH, they're also a lot more fun to play with, so there's a tradeoff.
Good point John, Humm,,,Black Cloud, Thats it. If we all had enough money to have 30+ TMCC/Legacy locomotives, and two MTH PS2 models. We would not have enough run time on any one of then to have them in anything less than 100% working condition. BTW those are sold for 14 + so you better not "PLAY" with them. Glad yours have been good to you, mine have VOODOO in them. Kev
Good point John, Humm,,,Black Cloud, Thats it.
If we all had enough money to have 30+ TMCC/Legacy locomotives, and two MTH PS2 models. We would not have enough run time on any one of then to have them in anything less than 100% working condition.
BTW those are sold for 14 + so you better not "PLAY" with them.
Glad yours have been good to you, mine have VOODOO in them.
Yes, I have over 30 modern engines [mostly diesels] and all run fine. Just like old ones, they do require maintence. I have them running when I have time. I hope in a couple of months, they will be running on the new layout in the Box.
Agree John. They are more fun and more impressive. Folks say, "Look, they run, sound and smoke like a real train engine."
I have half a dozen engines with protosounds and all of them lost their minds.
Penny Trains, if those PS-1 locos are dead due to a discharged battery or scrambled chip you can repair them at a fairly low cost. You can get the MTH repair chip kit that costs about $25 that can be used over and over again. Unscramble the chip in the loco add a new battery and you are set to go. Takes about 10 minutes to accomplish and is very easy to do.
I would add some of the modern, but less-complicated ones, like the Lionel Docksider or my beloved Thomas line work pretty well out of the box -- I've run the heck out of them. But, as you said, they're conventional...
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
Stories like this are why I like collecting old Marx trains, bought a "Show Special" 666 set that had been sitting in someones attic for 30 years, cleaned it , lubed it up, put it on the track and it took off like new! Later it flew off a corner too fast, fell3 feet hit, picked it up and put it back on the track, ran just fine, try that with the stuff made today in any scale.
Have fun with your trains
Yeah I prefer the old school trains because they are easier to work on and tweak to make them run better and smoke better. Also less delicate details to break off while your working on them.
Give me steam locomotives or give me DEATH!
Berkshire Junction, bringing fourth the cry of the Iron Horse since 1900.
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