new to toy trains

[Anonymous]

HI ! i'm so new -- well I'll ask a question and you'll know--- HO & Lionel--witch will work best in a basement along the top of wall ,around 15" down?
witch will work w/out a lot of work?

[Big_Boy_4005]

[#welcome] Are you talking about going around the room near the ceiling? Is this just going to be something you want to turn on and let run, or do you want to really control and play with the trains?

[ChiefEagles]

I prefer the O guage over HO. HO is too finikey for me. TaKing apart an HO layout now. The O is more fun to me as you can "play" with it. Glad to have you post here. [#welcome][#welcome]

[Buckeye Riveter]

[#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome][#welcome]

from all of us

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And now back to your question.

I used to have a large HO layout. It was great, but it took a great deal of maintence when compared to my O layout. First a two track wiring scheme is a little more complicated than the three track wiring scheme especially reverse loops. A distinct advantage is cost. HO is less expensive, not cheaper. There are some real good engines and cars out there on the market.

I would suggest you attend a local train show in your area of the country and see for yourself the differnces. Ask them the questions.

Since you are putting this track about 15" lower than your ceiling, I believe the small size of the HO will not be satisfactory from a visual point of view. What can you see when you are looking up at the track.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hey Buck, I'm surprised you aren't recommending G for this project. [swg]

If it turns out to be an around the ceiling display type layout, like it sounds to me, G would be my recommendation. Beside, you get smoother quieter runing with G. Visit your local hobby store.

Around the ceiling, the bigger the better. G first, then O.

HO? Nah. Getting too small to see up high like that.

[dougdagrump]

Welcome aboard!
I agree it's a choice between "G" or "O", but I think "O" has the advantage in price over the other.

[3railguy]

HO wil disappear near the ceiling. O gauge will be OK for a room up to 300 square feet. For a larger room, G scale may be a better choice.

[Buckeye Riveter]

G will work but..........I really like G outdoors and O indoors just because of the size.

[Big_Boy_4005]

[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

G will work but..........I really like G outdoors and O indoors just because of the size.

For normal operation and "play", I agree O is best for indoors, but for a high wall / ceiling display G is really nice. Bars and restaurants have been doing G displays for years. There's even a flower shop here in St Paul that has a G display. Apparently there was a guy running a small train store out of one corner of the shop. He ended up moving out, but the display was still running. It went right through the walls and through the cooler.[:p]

[dougdagrump]

Now that's a set-up for a bar, run a string of gondalas thru the cooler, load them up with beer cans/bottles and movem out. [:D]

[Anonymous]

My room is 23'--21' ---my door is 7" from ceiling will G get through that small of an aera . I'm then going down at 3% to 18" at far end. at 15"-- 18" is all the buildings & other stuff. I have 5 1/4 " to put track on ,what size corners do I need?Is 3% to much for down hill. Can I have more then 3% for up hill? "O" and thank for the info so far, and the nice wecome!!!!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hmmm, 7" is probably too small for G, it's even a little tight for O, but you could get through. I like at least 6" for O, because that doesn't limit you to the smaller pieces.

Does the door open into the room? Can you suspend the track from the ceiling and swing out away from the door? Is the door near the corner of the room, so that you could bridge across the corner?

The 3% grade is OK, but it sounds like you have room to make that a lot less steep, maybe less than 1%. On a layout of that type if you could make it flat it would be best, then you wouldn't have to slow down and speed up as much. Did you want to have switches up there, or just a simple loop?

If you use a 36" radius curve (072) in the corners, the maximum distance from the corner will be around 15". As you increase the radius, that distance will also increase slightly.

I know I ask a lot of questions, but I want you to have the best results on your project.

[lionelsoni]

Jbeaks, I think that you will find that G is too tall for your space. Here are some thoughts about your problem:

It is not necessary to build an actual shelf for Lionel-style trains. Traditional tubular track is stiff enough to be supported only every foot or two, depending on the type. I strongly recommend the long sections (about 3 feet) that are now available. The supports can be brackets or crossbars hung from the ceiling by threaded rods. You can see more of the train this way, too.

You can put the straight sections closer to the walls if you use spiral curves at the corners. These start and end with a gentle curvature, for example O72, but have a tighter curve in the middle. The gentle part gets the train a little distance away from the wall before the ends have to swing out for the turn. A spiral doesn't take up much more room than an ordinary corner using the tighter curvature. You might find it easier to put a shelf in the corners than to use brackets there; but hangers should work fine in a corner.

Anything above 2 percent may limit you going uphill. But with magnetraction or traction tires and short, light trains, you can manage much steeper grades.

[Big_Boy_4005]

True Bob, but remember if you are running the trains and don't have a shelf or some kind of rail, it's a long way to the floor if there's a derailment.

[lionelsoni]

Been there, done that. You're right, there should be a safety rail. I think it's about as easy to add one to a bracket mounting as to a shelf, and even easier with hangers, since the rods provide convenient mounting points.

[Anonymous]

A few of us here have set up shelf layouts with great success. You may want to check out the "building a shelf layout" thread for more ideas. My experience has been that the shelf layout has its pros and cons like any other. It creates a wonderful way to view the trains with a minimum of scenery and accessories, but the trains are never as close as I would like them to be. However, they run at 7 feet above ground , and I am 6 feet tall, so there is a one foot gap at its closest point, which is probably the same distance as a standard layout. Its just the perspective that changes. I think you can see O gauge trains fine, as long as the lighting is sufficient. I don't use a safety rail as it blocks the view of the trains, and given the size and weight of a GG1, I'm not sure a safety rail would help if that thing went off the track. I keep the TMCC governor on so the trains can never go above a certain speed which helps solve the derailment problem.

And BTW, I had one wall that was about 9 feet long and I put up a one foot wide shelf so I could put some accessories in back. It works very well to display some accessories.

[dougdagrump]

Using a wide radius corners would allow for some full size scenery and some of the building facades that are available would allow for scenery on the straight sections without having to build the shelf out to far from the wall. Wish I had thought of that when I put mine up. [:(]

[Anonymous]

thanks all r. cab. 522 tmcc will let me turn it on and let the train run on it's own?
GRUMPY: the is a 14" section X 23' that will have buildings & ect...
planning to piant landscape on upper walls --- one aera an old gold mine -- 14' aera will have town & bridge over a pianted canyonw/ river --- a section w/ a ranch. ect...... all the way around.

[Anonymous]

more please: what size is the garden trains? I think i might be able to us it if i make a tunnel over the door (8'door) taking out the molding (3") and ?? x"s of top of door, if my better -half ( as she calls her-self) likes the design. It's my pool / game room, but total design of all of house IS hers.

[Anonymous]

area--ooops!!!

[eZAK]

[#welcome]jbeaks2,

Go to a hobby store and measure the 'G' scale stuff (LGB for one brand)
You'll find that you need 10" to 12" clearance.(Including; support, shelf, track, & train)

Waht size is your basement ceiling?
Bringing a 'G' train down 15" to 18" might overwhelm the room.

Given what you said already I would go with 'O' gauge/scale.

[Big_Boy_4005]

G trains kind of range in size from a scale proportion of 1:32 all the way up through 1:20 or so. The trains are about 8" tall. There is only one gauge of track for all of those different sizes of trains. The G experts can be found on the Garden Railways forum here at Trains.com. It sounds like you have a pretty good vision of what you want the layout to look like, I think she'll like it. [swg]

[Anonymous]

[^] Beaks,

Yes, the TMCC is great for the shelf layout. If your trains have cruise control (Kline) or the Oddyssey speed control (lionel) you can as the info-mercial says: set it - and forget it! I also used the momentum setting on the CAB-1 controller. This regulates the maximum speed your train can go which helps if you have kids using the trains at all.

Quite honestly, I am still not 100% comfortable yet with the trains going overhead. Derailments have alwya sbeen part of my trains, and if I get one, its a long way to the ground. No Speeding!

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

well garden trains are out . so "O" is the way I'm going. so back to needing help. what are the bridge sizes ( covered, designer, open, ect.....)are there tunnels that go against a wall? ?? corners on shelf system,(flex ,.027 setw/ base?)can i us a cable 1/2 the hight of train as protaction if there's a derailment?

[Anonymous]

"O" pricing --best which names are the best in --tracks, loco's trainsformers,ect...
i have stopped at two stores & i'm get not alot of help (just what they want to sell.)
trust facter LOW.

[Anonymous]

etc...(ooops again & not get but getting sorry i'm a slooow typest& never prof- read my stuff.

[dougdagrump]

The key word is how do you define "BEST". And how "BIG" your budget is going to be for this project. Since it is going to above eye-level it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to use the the real hi-end track unless it would be beneficial for operating purposes. From my very limited experience I would suggest going with TMCC since it is being used by a greater number of manufacturers. [2c]

[Anonymous]

hi, grumpy --- "BEST = most for the money that well last the longest. this is to start a rec-room type deal we'll see once I get into it. track 1st , corners that fit , transformer that's the right size, wireing that keeps it ok --running all (most ) of the time,bridges,tunnels,& then the train set.

[Big_Boy_4005]

It sounds like one basic decision has been made, that's a good start. O gauge it is then.
Let's plan the track, then the rest will fall into place.

Single loop of track?

Single train?

No switches?

If the answers are yes, then I'm thinking Williams engine, to keep it simple, forget TMCC. For this project I like Atlas track, since the solid rail will make less noise. Any simple transformer, such as an old 1033.

[eZAK]

Not that Big_Boy_ is wrong, BUT

My suggestion to you would be to get a current catalog from Lionel, MTH, & K-line.
Then buy the latest issue of CTT & OGR.
Also a beginner's book like OGR's 'The Primer' will be helpful.

Armed with this info. look through the adds of both mags and find a good price on a starter set. (Set does not have to have track and trans, since you'll be adding more track and will probaly out grow the stanard trans.

Next is to plan an attack. What is your buget? What is your track plan?
How, Where, and from What will you hang the track?
What materials will you use?
The mags can provide pre-enginered ceiling mounts or you can turn to this forum and search and/or ask for detailed do-it-your self system.

Once you have a plan add up your linear feet and buy your track.
I prefer Gargraves Trackage. It has been around for years, It is cost effective, Looks great, Has real wood ties, and is meant to be bent into any curve you want. This eliminates the need to buy extra curves.

Some of the things you'll need most are a good plan and the resolve to see it through.

Happy Railroading! & remember we are here to help (well most of us) [:)]